Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Oldman]

I thought Jonas was good today. Clearly he totally emptied himself in the final km (which is good training) - but before then he kept the gap steady. He doesn't have Pogi's acceleration but if TP attacks too early he can claw his way back. He's got a good chance at the Tour.

He definitely hit some high notes but needs more of these efforts to be ready for the Tour. Pogacar's not sitting on his form, either.

 

[TrekCyclist]

I think the problem for Jonas is that he needs Pogi to have a bad day - not just relative to him - but to other riders in the race. Pogi hasn't had one of those since Tour 23

ITT in Dauphine does not count?
But yeah, there were not many.

 

[Oldman]

I think the problem for Jonas is that he needs Pogi to have a bad day - not just relative to him - but to other riders in the race. Pogi hasn't had one of those since Tour 23

It'll take a good Roglic and someone else that can threaten Tadej early/often to make that happen. A tandem of Roglic and Matteo would be a great fit; particularly if they get enough time UAE uses serious team energy. Matteo can't be a 100km WvA impersonator and do that, though. He was cooked after Stage 6.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think the problem for Jonas is that he needs Pogi to have a bad day - not just relative to him - but to other riders in the race. Pogi hasn't had one of those since Tour 23

In a GT things happen sometimes. 3 weeks is a lot of racing and more can happen than during a 1-week race. Even Pogacar can have a bad day.

 

[fenns]

ITT in Dauphine does not count?
But yeah, there were not many.

the TT last week was poor for Pogi - no doubt - but was not really significant in the GC. I was thinking more of a Col De Granon or Courchevel type performance when Pogi basically cracked.

Pogi doesn't need Jonas to crack - he can keep taking 30secs + and win that way. Jonas needs Pogi to fall apart at some point.

 

[YavorD]

In a GT things happen sometimes. 3 weeks is a lot of racing and more can happen than during a 1-week race. Even Pogacar can have a bad day.

Red Rick says Pogacar is a luck merchant, so probably he has bad days on sprinters stages.

Joke aside but the chance of you having a bad day on not a GC stage is quite high.

 

[Peyroteo94]

What’s your problem? That he says Vingegaard doesn’t race enough? Literally a discussion had in this topic by other forum members too. Or that he feels Merckx is a greater rider than Pogacar? Also a discussion had on this forum. He says nothing controversial.

Because he is criticizing every rider of this era. Now, it is Mads. Jesus, this guy has a inferiority complex.

 

[hayneplane]

I think looking on how Pogi road that climb it's obvoius that he could have put another minute or more into Jonas if he would have tried hard.

I think if they look at it honestly Jonas shouldn't follow in the Tour when Pogi attacks in the high mountains. Sit behind his strong team so that they can secure the 2nd place. There's just no reason for trying and risk cracking. The Tour will be a re-run of the Giro 24 without a crash.

Nah. When you have already won it twice and finished second 3 times what difference does another podium make. Take inspiration from Contador and go all guns blazing for the win and be willing to risk not even getting a top 5.

 

[Gratemans]

Because he is criticizing every rider of this era. Now, it is Mads. Jesus, this guy has a inferiority complex.

So much this. He's just constantly crapping all over current day riders. He's an insufferable bitter old fool imo.

 

[Berniece]

Because he is criticizing every rider of this era. Now, it is Mads. Jesus, this guy has a inferiority complex.

Not just this era. It was just all better in his day and age according to him, not to mention he thinks of himself as the 2nd best rider ever.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Not just this era. It was just all better in his day and age according to him, not to mention he thinks of himself as the 2nd best rider ever.

So do you think that is normal?

 

[kamaveli]

Losing and sprinting for nothing looks bad, especially with that horrible helmet on.
It would be easy to fix though. If they changed that cheap grey to black, that color scheme would look much better.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Losing and sprinting for nothing looks bad, especially with that horrible helmet on.
It would be easy to fix though. If they changed that cheap grey to black, that color scheme would look much better.

The helmet is nice! What are people talking about?? The glasses are horrible.

 

[Netserk]

The helmet is nice! What are people talking about?? The glasses are horrible.

If in red and white, it should either resemble the sponsor logo more or be just like the normal helmet with a change of colours. The white cross is neither and makes him look like a fake national champion.

 

[carolina]

If in red and white, it should either resemble the sponsor logo more or be just like the normal helmet with a change of colours. The white cross is neither and makes him look like a fake national champion.

By the looks of it, Bygma is sponsoring him. So the helmet makes sense, just like Van Aert riding with a redbull helmet.

 

[theyoungest]

If things don't work out for Jonas in the Tour he should consider getting new coaches and it has also happened twice that DS Niermann told Jonas that if he rides X watts for Y minutes, he will drop Tadej only to later get dropped himself. This Niermann guy should stay away from strategy planning and the team radio.

Yeah, that horrible strategy that won them the Tour twice with a rider who now can't even get close to the guy he beat... they should definitely get rid of the guy who planned that. Do you want him to say in the radio: you suck Jonas, Pogi is way better than you, you might as well give up.

If by getting a new coach you mean a new trainer, I think his current one (Tim Heemskerk) is probably one of the best trainers in cycling right now. He also trains Simon Yates and Matteo Jorgenson... pretty decent results out of those guys. As well as out of Vingegaard, of course.

 

[Netserk]

By the looks of it, Bygma is sponsoring him. So the helmet makes sense, just like Van Aert riding with a redbull helmet.

I know. The logo of Bygma has a house, not a cross.

 

[Berniece]

So do you think that is normal?

Not always, but people are people, just because they complain a lot doesn’t mean they are always wrong

 

[Froome]

Yeah, that horrible strategy that won them the Tour twice with a rider who now can't even get close to the guy he beat... they should definitely get rid of the guy who planned that. Do you want him to say in the radio: you suck Jonas, Pogi is way better than you, you might as well give up.

If by getting a new coach you mean a new trainer, I think his current one (Tim Heemskerk) is probably one of the best trainers in cycling right now. He also trains Simon Yates and Matteo Jorgenson... pretty decent results out of those guys. As well as out of Vingegaard, of course.

I think Tim Heemskerk is the coach, but Heijboer is the main coach.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Short term they can't change anything substantially so plan A will likely still be ride to maximise fatigue and attrition, at the Tour obviously with a selection of even stronger riders. On what they likely worry more about now is will Jonas be able to finish it off.

 

[Froome]

Short term they can't change anything substantially so plan A will likely still be ride to maximise fatigue and attrition, at the Tour obviously with a selection of even stronger riders. On what they likely worry more about now is will Jonas be able to finish it off.

There is one thing who can change. Continue to improve and push more watts in the Tour.

He improved between Combloux and Valmenier.

He didn't raced since March. He lacked racing. There is still 1 month before the decisive stages.

 

[CyclistAbi]

There is one thing who can change. Continue to improve and push more watts in the Tour.

He improved between Combloux and Valmenier.

He didn't raced since March. He lacked racing. There is still 1 month before the decisive stages.

True but in all honesty Dauphiné 2025 looked more like Giro 2024, then any Tour edition in between them. We'll see.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

OK, so good to see Jonas back.

However, speaking this 2025 round of the Tour battle - Le Spectacle we're all waiting for - Pogi has the upper hand, in fact more handfuls of upper cards, nomatter if Jonas should be a tad better om a flat ITT/better aero TT bike/more futuristic alien helmet

- several puncheur-stages, Pogi party time.

- cobbles stage with in fact severe level of cobbles, not only a benefit for Pogi via far better cobbles skills, but also critical for Jonas with a severe concussion less than six months ago. Not good at all.

- the two ITTs are in 1st and 2nd week, none in 3rd week
- 1st week ITT is flat and just 33k
- 2nd week ITT 10.9k including 8k @ 7,9% "final climb" of Peyragudes

Jonas' best chance against Pogi is long, exhausting stages in week 3. However, here too Pogi has built on, but should be in Jonas' favor with a much more clear focus. But here too he could run into problems in 3rd week with the 3 crucial stages to make a winning gap.

- stage 16 Mont Ventoux, pancake flat until last HC climb, ~170k
- stage 18 Loze-stage with 3 HC mountains, ~170k
- stage 19 La Plagne, 2 HC + 1 cat1 +2 cat2, ~130k

Especially stage 18 should've put an extra 40k to really benefit Jonas, and ideally followed by 2xstage19, if Pogi finally tends to turn human

As I see it his best chance is if Visma manages to make a highly surprising stroke of geniusity and Jorgenson and Yates can be used as real cards. But UAE will be drilling it, serving dinner, besides other situation with Pogi just glued to Jonas' wheel if left alone.

Dauphine has shown Jonas has a hopeful 2024 level.

But I hardly doubt Jonas can reach Pogi 2025 level within few weeks to make up for it.

It all plays into Pogi's cards.

Edit: ended up with longer post, maybe better suitable in another thread. But buttom line: Jonas has shown he is not pure gone, but on the contrary that he is still the only competitor to Pogi.
Though still missing an essential level up, furthermore the Tour route design not exactly plays into his pocket. Could be decided before week 3.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I will never understand when someone says a longer mountain stage will benefit Vingegaard instead of Pogacar. Seriously, Pogacar is the best classics rider and those races are known for being "marathons".

 

[Krzysztof_O]

There is one thing who can change. Continue to improve and push more watts in the Tour.

He improved between Combloux and Valmenier.

He didn't raced since March. He lacked racing. There is still 1 month before the decisive stages.

I wouldn't say lack of racing hurt him much. Vingegaard had all the time in the world to simulate various situations in training, including hard miles and a bloc ascents. He had 2 months of break before Dauphine 2023 and still was flying. Nowadays cyclists don't need much racing to be in form, they can even be very strong at the very beginning of the season (after months without racing).

Despite long and high-quality training time Vingegaard simply lacks some w/kg vs Pogacar and that's his biggest problem. He needs to close the gap but Pogacar will not stand still until the Tour either. That's why Pogacar is #1 favourite.