Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Red Rick]

I read somewhere on this forum, that Vingegaard is probably the 2nd best rider in the world currently, he or Van Der Poel if I remember correctly. Well, I think it is time to stop with such claims. Guy won't come near winning any race with Pogacar around, which is not case for Van Der Poel, or even Remco (ITT's). He's 4th at best.

Van der Poel is too busy losing races to Abrahamsen and Schmidt on 90% of his race days per year.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Carpentry it is then.

 

[Blanco]

Van der Poel is too busy losing races to Abrahamsen and Schmidt on 90% of his race days per year.

But he also beats Pogacar couple of times a year.

 

[Rackham]

I totally blasphemed during yesterday's stage BTW, i.e. on Soulor when Visma started their "Saving Private Matteo" shenanigans I seriously muttered maybe Trine was right.

Not that it would have made much difference but their obsession with having a second man in GC was bizarre.

 

[AmRacer]

But he also beats Pogacar couple of times a year.

And Remco can only win flat ITT's? Jonas still wins any stage race Pogi isn't racing.

 

[Rackham]

And Remco can only win flat ITT's? Jonas still wins any stage race Pogi isn't racing.

That's not guaranteed actually. Maybe pre-Itzulia crash but since then there's been occasions when Almeida for example was legitimately faster than Vinge on climbs in early season races (like Paris-Nice in March of this year).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Van der Poel is too busy losing races to Abrahamsen and Schmidt on 90% of his race days per year.

There are also big races in the season where Van der Poel at his best is almost unbeatable. Only he and Pogacar have this status (and Remco if you count flat TTs). His monuments record speak for itself. In this regard MVP can be seen as #2, that's how I see it. Looking more at consistency and results across the season there are other candidates (Remco has the strongest case for #2 then).

 

[Blanco]

The way I see it, hierarchy now is:
1.Pogacar
2.Van Der Poel
3.Evenepoel
4.Vingegaard

And that's the order also where they stand in all-time pantheon.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The way I see it, hierarchy now is:
1.Pogacar
2.Van Der Poel
3.Evenepoel
4.Vingegaard

And that's the order also where they stand in all-time pantheon.

If we are basing this opinion on 2025 performances, I don't get why Vingegaard is below Remco since he also can't fight with Pogacar in monuments/classics.

 

[Rule #9 apostle]

There are also big races in the season where Van der Poel at his best is almost unbeatable. Only he and Pogacar have this status (and Remco if you count flat TTs). His monuments record speak for itself. In this regard MVP can be seen as #2, that's how I see it. Looking more at consistency and results across the season there are other candidates (Remco has the strongest case for #2 then).

TDF is so much bigger both in terms of stature and level though. The guy with 2 wins and (likely) 3 2nds the last 5 editions is the second best road racer.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

TDF is so much bigger both in terms of stature and level though. The guy with 2 wins and (likely) 3 2nds the last 5 editions is the second best road racer.

I don't mean overall accomplishements but who's the best now (i.e. the last 12 months).

 

[Rule #9 apostle]

The way I see it, hierarchy now is:
1.Pogacar
2.Van Der Poel
3.Evenepoel
4.Vingegaard

And that's the order also where they stand in all-time pantheon.

I love remco as much as the next guy but come on

 

[Rule #9 apostle]

I don't mean overall accomplishements but who's the best now (i.e. the last 12 months).

Ah, in that case absolutely agree

 

[Blanco]

TDF is so much bigger both in terms of stature and level though. The guy with 2 wins and (likely) 3 2nds the last 5 editions is the second best road racer.

Absolutely not.
Olympic and world road race champion, multiple world time trial champion + also olympic champion, Vuelta winner, double Liege winner is certainly better than double Tour de France champion, no matter how much second places he has.

 

[Blanco]

If we are basing this opinion on 2025 performances, I don't get why Vingegaard is below Remco since he also can't fight with Pogacar in monuments/classics.

He denied him Amstel...

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I totally blasphemed during yesterday's stage BTW, i.e. on Soulor when Visma started their "Saving Private Matteo" shenanigans I seriously muttered maybe Trine was right.

Not that it would have made much difference but their obsession with having a second man in GC was bizarre.

I mean, the only other option would have been to launch Vingegaard which wasn‘t the plan. Their plan for Soulor had just attacked backwards and they weren‘t getting anywhere with pushing further.

 

[Rackham]

I mean, the only other option would have been to launch Vingegaard which wasn‘t the plan. Their plan for Soulor had just attacked backwards and they weren‘t getting anywhere with pushing further.

From the moment Visma overestimated the strength of their own riders I think it's safe to say their plan sucked. It fell apart almost immediately. It wasn't a case of "oh dear, there's nothing we could do". No, these guys literally attacked day after day since the start of the Tour with a campaign of 'harassment' that seems to have simply fatigued their domestiques.

As for the talk here of who numero two in the world is... there isn't one. There's just Pog and then everyone else, with various specialists who feature in the Pog highlights reel depending on the event (like Vinge in the TdF). It's also cyclical and timestamped in the sense Vinge is no longer beating Pog and he's going backwards compared to his level from a year ago. It matters.

The thing about Van der Poel is on his own preferred terrain he still beats Pog (Roubaix and San Remo basically), at least for the time being. Maybe that'll change next year.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He denied him Amstel...

Like Vingegaard denied a solo from Pogacar on stage 4.
The point is the same, when Pogacar was probably not overconfident, he smoked Remco.

 

[Berniece]

Like Vingegaard denied a solo from Pogacar on stage 4.
The point is the same, when Pogacar was probably not overconfident, he smoked Remco.

Lol, not remotely the same

 

[Blanco]

Like Vingegaard denied a solo from Pogacar on stage 4.
The point is the same, when Pogacar was probably not overconfident, he smoked Remco.

But Remco can beat him at least in TT's, Vingegaard can't beat him anywhere. That's the point.

 

[Salvarani]

But Remco can beat him at least in TT's, Vingegaard can't beat him anywhere. That's the point.

Beat him in the Dauphine TT, no?

He outsprinted him on one stage in Tour last season.

It has become rare, but it happens.

Pog and Vinge doesnt face each other more than a couple races each season, thats been the norm. The one who is in better form/shape is gonna have the upper hand.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Lol, not remotely the same

The same (both prevented the end of excitement) but in different ways. Remco prevented a easy Pogacar's solo in what he is good (riding like a mad man on rolling terrain), meanwhile Vingegaard prevented a easy Pogacar's solo by doing what he can do best nowadays (punchy attacks).
We got a thrilling Tour until yesterday because Vingegaard was able to follow Pogacar until Hautacam.
We got a thrilling talk about Ardennes, because Remco won La Fleche Brabançonne and caught Pogacar in AGR, however both Vingegaard and Remco got a reality check later.

 

[Berniece]

The same (both prevented the end of excitement) but in different ways. Remco prevented a easy Pogacar's solo in what he is good (riding like a mad man on rolling terrain), meanwhile Vingegaard prevented a easy Pogacar's solo by doing what he can do best nowadays (punchy attacks).
We got a thrilling Tour until yesterday because Vingegaard was able to follow Pogacar until Hautacam.
We got a thrilling talk about Ardennes, because Remco won La Fleche Brabançonne and caught Pogacar in AGR, however both Vingegaard and Remco got a reality check later.

Vingegaard followed an attack in the wheel, while Evenepoel reeled a 50km attack back in.

 

[Peyroteo94]

But Remco can beat him at least in TT's, Vingegaard can't beat him anywhere. That's the point.

I understand what you are saying but I can't agree. First, TTs are not important races "per se". And Ganna also beats Pogacar in TTs so I'm not exactly buying your argument.

 

[Berniece]

I understand what you are saying but I can't agree. First, TTs are not important races "per se". And Ganna also beats Pogacar in TTs so I'm not exactly buying your argument.

Because you are comparing a specialist (Ganna) to a generalist (Pogacar). While Evenepoel (generalist) and Vingegaard (GT rider) are much more similar to each other.