Jonathan Breyne suicide attempt

[pancakes]

According to HLN.BE his 'B' sample is also positive.

 

[EnacheV]

We don't want to be accused that the lack of moderation and letting genius talibans making ridiculous claims without backup pushed a young man to suicide, don't we?

 

[peloton]

We don't want to be accused that the lack of moderation and letting genius talibans making ridiculous claims without backup pushed a young man to suicide, don't we?

What on earth are you on about?


Look at the amount he tested + for....

0,000000005 g/ml

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/140225_breyne_tegenexpertise

 

[Netserk]

We don't want to be accused that the lack of moderation and letting genius talibans making ridiculous claims without backup pushed a young man to suicide, don't we?

Please show me one post here making ridiculous claims towards Breyne before his suicide attempt.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

What on earth are you on about?


Look at the amount he tested + for....

0,000000005 g/ml

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/140225_breyne_tegenexpertise

In contrast Passaportador got nailed for 50 picograms. Anybody cares to put the zeros in and compare directly.

 

[roundabout]

100 times higher for Breyne

 

[Netserk]

100 times higher for Breyne

So if he was tested 10 days later, he'd have the same concentration as AC?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

100 times higher for Breyne

I am trying to find the figure for Ovtcharov, but no luck so far. Just for ref.

 

[EnacheV]

Please show me one post here making ridiculous claims towards Breyne before his suicide attempt.

It seems that the 99% number is very inflated.

Ill try to speak more slowly.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/breyne-says-internet-forum-comments-drove-him-to-suicide-attempt

Probably he is referring to other forums than CN because here nobody cared to much about it, Rogers as being ex-Sky took the full flak barrage.

However this forum has few other favorites, for example JTL, who got a very though treatment here, with exhaustive and final personal opinions presented as facts (want to digg them?).

Bottom point is that the level of "discussion" here is enough to drive some weaker mind cyclists to suicide. If that didn't happened yet is because favorite targets of CN clinic are not that weak mental (or sensible) as this guy.

But there is always time...

 

[peloton]

I am trying to find the figure for Ovtcharov, but no luck so far. Just for ref.

- China's Fuyu Li: 50-100 picograms on March 23
- Italy's Alessandro Colò: 200 picograms on April 25
- Spain's Alberto Contador: 50 picograms on July 21
- Germany's Dimitrij Ovtcharov: 75 picograms on September 22

Don't know the amount the acquitted Danish rider Nielsen tested + for

 

[Dazed and Confused]

- China's Fuyu Li: 50-100 picograms on March 23
- Italy's Alessandro Colò: 200 picograms on April 25
- Spain's Alberto Contador: 50 picograms on July 21
- Germany's Dimitrij Ovtcharov: 75 picograms on September 22

Don't know the amount the acquitted Danish rider Nielsen tested + for

So Breyne's concentration level is on a completely different scale.

Now awaiting Rogers'.

 

[Netserk]

It seems that the 99% number is very inflated.

Ill try to speak more slowly.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/breyne-says-internet-forum-comments-drove-him-to-suicide-attempt

Probably he is referring to other forums than CN because here nobody cared to much about it, Rogers as being ex-Sky took the full flak barrage.

However this forum has few other favorites, for example JTL, who got a very though treatment here, with exhaustive and final personal opinions presented as facts (want to digg them?).

Bottom point is that the level of "discussion" here is enough to drive some weaker mind cyclists to suicide. If that didn't happened yet is because favorite targets of CN clinic are not that weak mental (or sensible) as this guy.

But there is always time...

So you admit that this:

We don't want to be accused that the lack of moderation and letting genius talibans making ridiculous claims without backup pushed a young man to suicide, don't we?

is complete BS.

 

[Catwhoorg]

In contrast Passaportador got nailed for 50 picograms. Anybody cares to put the zeros in and compare directly.

Its 5 ng/ml

5000 picograms/ml

Obviously 100 times the level of Alberto.

 

[Catwhoorg]

So if he was tested 10 days later, he'd have the same concentration as AC?

Half life is 36-48 hours
Using 48 hours

2 days 2500 pg/ml
4 days 1250 pg/ml
6 days 625 pg/ml
8 days 312 pg/ml
10 days 156 pg/ml
12 days 78 pg/ml
14 days 39 pg/ml

For 36 hours, the list would be 1.5, 3, 4.5, 6, 7.5, 9, 10.5 days

So yes, 10-14 days for the clen to be down to AC's reported level

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Half life is 36-48 hours
Using 48 hours

2 days 2500 pg/ml
4 days 1250 pg/ml
6 days 625 pg/ml
8 days 312 pg/ml
10 days 156 pg/ml
12 days 78 pg/ml
14 days 39 pg/ml

For 36 hours, the list would be 1.5, 3, 4.5, 6, 7.5, 9, 10.5 days

So yes, 10-14 days for the clen to be down to AC's reported level

Thanks.
But what about the actual number. Compared to the others its much higher. Is it even possible to get to such concentration levels from say eating a steak?

 

[EnacheV]

So you admit that this:

is complete BS.

No dude, was a to much fine irony for you to comprehend, just be silent.

 

[roundabout]

So tests positive in the 5th, wins stage on the 9th, presumably gets tested, but no mention that the test on the 9th is positive as well.

 

[Netserk]

So tests positive in the 5th, wins stage on the 9th, presumably gets tested, but no mention that the test on the 9th is positive as well.

Maybe the lab testing the test from the 9th couldn't detect so low concentrations?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Yes it possible to get ng/ml levels from a single meal.

This paper gives a description of an outbreak from a single contaminated meal at a care facility in 1997.

The nurses actually became symptomatic of clen poisoning fairly quickly, and had urine concentrations in the tens of ng/ml range.

A better question would be is it possible to have that much clen in your system and be asymptomatic, and that is an answer someone else will have to work on. Its far beyond my knowledge.

The abstract of the full paper Linked above is:

Long-acting b-adrenergic agonists, such as clenbuterol accumulate in the liver, but not meat of treated farm animals, and result in epidemic poisonings in consumers. We describe an outbreak of poisoning in 15 people following the consumption of meat. Clinical symptoms (distal tremors, palpitations, headache, tachipnoea-dyspnoea, and also moderate hyperglycaemia, hypokalemia and leucocytosis) were seen in nine hospitalised patients, starting about 0.5 – 3 h after poisoning, and disappearing within 3 – 5 days later. Clenbuterol was found in the urine of all the symptomatic patients, at higher levels than pharmacokinetic computing (mean level 28 ng/ml, 36 h after ingestion), based on the levels found in the meat (1140 – 1480 ng/g edible tissue). Thus, epidemic poisoning can be produced following the consumption of contaminated meat. The need for a better definition of pharmaco- and toxico-kinetics, not only for drugs ingested as parent drug, but also when ingested as residues with animal tissues, is recommended.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Yes it possible to get ng/ml levels from a single meal.

Snipped..

Messy situation.
Awaiting Rogers' numbers.

 

[Merckx index]

Based on a urine concentration of 5 ng/ml, Breyne probaby ingested at least 50 ug, which, yes, should result in symptoms. Not necessarily feeling sick, but aware that something was going on. That's assuming he was tested within a day or two after ingestion; the estimated amount ingested would be higher if the elapsed time were longer.

Meat this heavily contaminated (ca. 150-250 ug/kg) is quite rare, at least in Mexico, where some studies have been done. I have a lot of trouble believing that meat like this would end up being served in a major hotel. However, one of the Mexican soccer players tested at 4.2 ng/ml, and got off on the contamination excuse.

His level four days later, when I understand he raced, would be roughly 5-6 times lower, or 1 ng/ml or less. The minimum sensitivity required of testing labs I believe is 2 ng/ml, so it's possible he was tested then and nothing was detected.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Based on a urine concentration of 5 ng/ml, Breyne probaby ingested at least 50 ug, which, yes, should result in symptoms. Not necessarily feeling sick, but aware that something was going on. That's assuming he was tested within a day or two after ingestion; the estimated amount ingested would be higher if the elapsed time were longer.

Meat this heavily contaminated (ca. 150-250 ug/kg) is quite rare, at least in Mexico, where some studies have been done. I have a lot of trouble believing that meat like this would end up being served in a major hotel. However, one of the Mexican soccer players tested at 4.2 ng/ml, and got off on the contamination excuse.

His level four days later, when I understand he raced, would be roughly 5-6 times lower, or 1 ng/ml or less. The minimum sensitivity required of testing labs I believe is 2 ng/ml, so it's possible he was tested then and nothing was detected.

Iirc Contador's level didn't have any direct effect performance wise (disregarding the wider picture), but what about this level?

 

[PeterB]

Just noticed that Jonathan started riding again this year - I hope this sport brings him ideally only happy moments going forward..