Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[Libertine Seguros]

agree with the first part of the sentence, but not sure if I follow the part between brackets?

I see it as the argument being:

"if something is successful, it is doping" as a general rule of thumb is much easier to concur with than "if something is doping, it is successful", as a number of athletes doping just to be part of the péloton, to keep their career going, or to win a new contract would put paid to that; as well as Riccardo Riccòs, Danilo di Lucas and Mustafa Sayars in the world there are also Steve Houanards, Roy Sentjenses etc.

 

[sniper]

I see it as the argument being:

"if something is successful, it is doping" as a general rule of thumb is much easier to concur with than "if something is doping, it is successful", as a number of athletes doping just to be part of the péloton, to keep their career going, or to win a new contract would put paid to that; as well as Riccardo Riccòs, Danilo di Lucas and Mustafa Sayars in the world there are also Steve Houanards, Roy Sentjenses etc.

thanks, yes, that makes sense.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I see it as the argument being:

"if something is successful, it is doping" as a general rule of thumb is much easier to concur with than "if something is doping, it is successful", as a number of athletes doping just to be part of the péloton, to keep their career going, or to win a new contract would put paid to that; as well as Riccardo Riccòs, Danilo di Lucas and Mustafa Sayars in the world there are also Steve Houanards, Roy Sentjenses etc.

Remember what Kimmage said about Kelly doping: ''when the big guns dope, the footsoldiers also have to dope''.

Good thing JTL's DS at Sky [Servais] never had to make that decesion in his carreer.

 

[Franklin]

I see it as the argument being:

"if something is successful, it is doping" as a general rule of thumb is much easier to concur with than "if something is doping, it is successful", as a number of athletes doping just to be part of the péloton, to keep their career going, or to win a new contract would put paid to that; as well as Riccardo Riccòs, Danilo di Lucas and Mustafa Sayars in the world there are also Steve Houanards, Roy Sentjenses etc.

Exactly

Not everyone who dopes becomes a winner.
But history taught us that most winners are dopers. And that most can be read as an overwhelming amount of rider

 

[Benotti69]

Remember what Kimmage said about Kelly doping: ''when the big guns dope, the footsoldiers also have to dope''.

Good thing JTL's DS at Sky [Servais] never had to make that decesion in his carreer.

Great quote FGL and it is why I firmly believe that the culture of doping has not gone away.

 

[nevada]

Great quote FGL and it is why I firmly believe that the culture of doping has not gone away.

It's top down and bottom up. It's engrained in every level of the sport. It's in the amateur ranks, the pro ranks, CX,track, BMX....it's everywhere, it's not going away.

 

[zigmeister]

Remember what Kimmage said about Kelly doping: ''when the big guns dope, the footsoldiers also have to dope''.

Good thing JTL's DS at Sky [Servais] never had to make that decesion in his carreer.

So everybody on Leopard/Trek is doped to the gills I guess huh?

 

[zigmeister]

Exactly

Not everyone who dopes becomes a winner.
But history taught us that most winners are dopers. And that most can be read as an overwhelming amount of rider

Due to team structures, this couldn't be further from false.

It is exactly why so many soldiers did dope, Hincapie etc...to support Lance, because they were also making $$$, their egos didn't get them in trouble and make them leave for another team hoping for glory.

With that said, as I replied to another poster....I guess Leopard/Trek is either entirely doped, or Horner was actually clean.

 

[JRanton]

Just read Walsh's article in the ST today.

He said the suspicious test was on 22 September. 3 experts flagged it up. Blood tests were taken in the next 5 months and the baseline records were noted. They then seen a case to be answered for.

JTL is saying he was drinking heaviliy the day before which might explain the low retics.

Good luck with that excuse JTL. Jesus...

In some ways you have to admire the machiavellian aspect to it, what with him offering to join the passport scheme at the same time as he was doping himself to the eyeballs to win multiple races.

 

[The Hitch]

400k! Obviously Sky had faith in him to "respond"?

He was on 35k at Endura.

Good Times!

Remember the big explanation from 2012. Sky are the best because they can afford to buy all the best riders

and that came not from fans but from the top guys - Brailsford, Walsh, DB.

 

[thehog]

Remember the big explanation from 2012. Sky are the best because they can afford to buy all the best riders

and that came not from fans but from the top guys - Brailsford, Walsh, DB.

Sky can afford to buy the most sophisticated logistics and preparation. That much is true.

JV was shoveling the story about being able to afford the best riders. Right around the time when he was also saying "speeds are down".

6.4 is the new 5.9 and clean riders can ride as fast as dopers.

Sky just put the blackmarket for PEDs out of business with marginal gains

Kerrison should be knighted for his humanitarian efforts against mafia drug lords

 

[the sceptic]

Sky can afford to buy the most sophisticated logistics and preparation. That much is true.

JV was shoveling the story about being able to afford the best riders. Right around the time when he was also saying "speeds are down".

6.4 is the new 5.9 and clean riders can ride as fast as dopers.

Sky just put the blackmarket for PEDs out of business with marginal gains

Kerrison should be knighted for his humanitarian efforts against mafia drug lords

Its a shame that JV and his assistants only post on twitter these days really. I thought all english speaking riders called a truce with JV to stop doping but now Im confused.

At least JTL will have something to fall back on for the next couple of years.

If my pseudo math is right he made about 10 times as much at sky. I think doping still pays big time.

 

[thehog]

Its a shame that JV and his assistants only post on twitter these days really. I thought all english speaking riders called a truce with JV to stop doping but now Im confused.

At least JTL will have something to fall back on for the next couple of years.

If my pseudo math is right he made about 10 times as much at sky. I think doping still pays big time.

JTL will be washing cars with Gary Coleman and Corey Haim talking about the good old days.

I hoped JTL banked it. Open a cafe called JtL's with photos of Dawg and Wiggins on the wall.

I used to ride with those guys, can I interest you in some biscotti?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

If my pseudo math is right he made about 10 times as much at sky. I think doping still pays big time.

Assuming the figures were correct and he got his accountant on the pirate end of the morality scale, then the equation is:

Even if I get pinged and suspended for 2 years:

1 year's salary at Sky == 10 more years salary here at Endura.

IMO this is a no brainer.

 

[wirral]

Is JTL resident in the UK for tax purposes?

 

[SundayRider]

Is JTL resident in the UK for tax purposes?

I read somewhere that he lives in Bristol, could be wrong though.

 

[thehog]

Is JTL resident in the UK for tax purposes?

They don't get paid individually. They set up a company called for example "JTL" which all monies can be paid. Salary, bonuses, sponsorship, appearance fees etc.

Generally it's offshore. Expenses are withdrawn and they'll pay themselves a very basic and low "taxed" salary.

The rest is tax free and drawn out to pay expenses and ofer long periods to avoid scrutiny.

If smart you try to be "non-dom". Tell the tax man you live in Spain and only come to the UK now and then.

Money earns outside the UK is not taxed. See Rolling Stones. Haven't paid tax anywhere in about 30 years.

Edit make that 1.6% tax in 20 years: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-398648/Stingy-Stones-avoid-tax--163-240m-fortune.html

JTL should have banked his 400k in total. He'll still be getting paid until actually suspended.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

They don't get paid individually. They set up a company called for example "JTL" which all monies can be paid. Salary, bonuses, sponsorship, appearance fees etc.

Generally it's offshore. Expenses are withdrawn and they'll pay themselves a very basic and low "taxed" salary.

The rest is tax free and drawn out to pay expenses and ofer long periods to avoid scrutiny.

If smart you try to be "non-dom". Tell the tax man you live in Spain and only come to the UK now and then.

Money earns outside the UK is not taxed. See Rolling Stones. Haven't paid tax anywhere in about 30 years.

Edit make that 1.6% tax in 20 years: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-398648/Stingy-Stones-avoid-tax--163-240m-fortune.html

JTL should have banked his 400k in total. He'll still be getting paid until actually suspended.

Agree with everything except the bolded. JTL would have paid a nice portion of the cash to his agent.

 

[Benotti69]

They don't get paid individually. They set up a company called for example "JTL" which all monies can be paid. Salary, bonuses, sponsorship, appearance fees etc.

Generally it's offshore. Expenses are withdrawn and they'll pay themselves a very basic and low "taxed" salary.

The rest is tax free and drawn out to pay expenses and ofer long periods to avoid scrutiny.

If smart you try to be "non-dom". Tell the tax man you live in Spain and only come to the UK now and then.

Money earns outside the UK is not taxed. See Rolling Stones. Haven't paid tax anywhere in about 30 years.

Edit make that 1.6% tax in 20 years: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-398648/Stingy-Stones-avoid-tax--163-240m-fortune.html

JTL should have banked his 400k in total. He'll still be getting paid until actually suspended.

An aside on the rolling stones tax issue, they(Musicians) used to be taxed 98% of every £1.00.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

So everybody on Leopard/Trek is doped to the gills I guess huh?

Yes, just look at your boy Andy.

Good point ziggy stardust.

I like your thinking.

 

[BroDeal]

Yes, just look at your boy Andy.

Good point ziggy stardust.

I like your thinking.

Andy appears to have gone off the sauce a couple of years ago. He is performing at pre-transformation Froome level these days.

 

[sniper]

Andy appears to have gone off the sauce a couple of years ago. He is performing at pre-transformation Froome level these days.

andy did a wiggo after contador was stripped.

 

[pmcg76]

andy did a wiggo after contador was stripped.

Hold on a second, you are one of those people who claim all cyclists dope because there is a very strong incentive to dope and precious little in the way of deterrent's.

Now you are claiming that Schleck, Wiggo and Contador dialled back the doping because??? Why would they dial it back if the incentives and deterrents are still the same??

You can't have it both ways.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Hold on a second, you are one of those people who claim all cyclists dope because there is a very strong incentive to dope and precious little in the way of deterrent's.

Now you are claiming that Schleck, Wiggo and Contador dialled back the doping because??? Why would they dial it back if the incentives and deterrents are still the same??

You can't have it both ways.

Contador is on a retirement package and little Schleck doesn't know where to put the needle in without his bigger brother.

The Schlecks will be back in business in 2014.

 

[pmcg76]

Contador is on a retirement package and little Schleck doesn't know where to put the needle in without his bigger brother.

The Schlecks will be back in business in 2014.

I think that response just about sums up the level of clinic thinking these days.

It's amazing how most of the current regulars even manage to lift their knuckles off the ground to pound on the keyboard.