Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[SundayRider]

33 units is about 50% more than the recommend weekly level for an adult in the UK. He said he doesn't drink very often - he must have been in some state after that lot. I find it inconceivable that he didn't drink any water or anything the next day, after all he's a pro athlete who knows most than most about the pitfalls of being dehydrated.

It is up there with the worst excuses for doping IMO.

 

[gillan1969]

33 units is about 50% more than the recommend weekly level for an adult in the UK. He said he doesn't drink very often - he must have been in some state after that lot. I find it inconceivable that he didn't drink any water or anything the next day, after all he's a pro athlete who knows most than most about the pitfalls of being dehydrated.

indeed...and of course as a pro athlete he will also know the pitfalls of being totally hammered on 33 units of an evening....

now imaging doing both......

 

[del1962]

Not sure why ppl think his 19th in the worlds as protected rider is better than winning the TOB, seems a somewhat odd opinion to me.

 

[the sceptic]

Not sure why ppl think his 19th in the worlds as protected rider is better than winning the TOB, seems a somewhat odd opinion to me.

Im no expert, but I think the 54% hematocrit is more important than being a protected rider, whatever that means.

 

[del1962]

Im no expert, but I think the 54% hematocrit is more important than being a protected rider, whatever that means.

Which he needed for the TOB surely, even with 54% hct if he hadnt been protected rider he would have been futher down the field

 

[TheSpud]

the evidence is his girlfriend and....eh...that's it

his performance at the worlds was better than his performance at the ToB....you can deduce from that what you will

you seem to be willfully trying, like Sir Dave, to make this an Endura problem.

This is a BC and SKY problem...btw the BC statement on their website is comedy...it was as if they had no responsibility at all for their team leader in the biggest one day race in the world

After reading a lot of stuff I'm pretty much of the opinion now that this was the result of amateurish doping and being really stupid about it.

I don't think SKY/BC doped him - if they had, I'm pretty sure they'd know how to make sure his off score wasn't ballistic, etc. Also I think they would have come up with a far better reason than a booze up. I do think they have been incredibly naïve / stupid if the post Worlds blood test was almost off the scale too.

I don't think it was Endura either - smaller team, lower ranks (although that doesn't mean it couldn't have been). But whats in it for them? I mean - why make their rider more attractive to top teams? Unless he was under contract and needed to be bought out, which I don't believe he was.

 

[thehog]

the evidence is his girlfriend and....eh...that's it

his performance at the worlds was better than his performance at the ToB....you can deduce from that what you will

you seem to be willfully trying, like Sir Dave, to make this an Endura problem.

This is a BC and SKY problem...btw the BC statement on their website is comedy...it was as if they had no responsibility at all for their team leader in the biggest one day race in the world

I do like Parker's assessment.

Basso had bloodbags stored but only intended to dope.

JTL doped for ToB but didn't intended to dope for the Worlds.

Brilliant!

 

[TheSpud]

Indeed it was. To ride like that you must feel fairly confident you won't get caught. Sailed through the ToB and Worlds without a positive test.

He probably wasn't tested at the Worlds though was he - only came 19th. Although you'd hope the authorities would be a bit savvy and perhaps test the top placed rider from each country regardless.

ToB had no EPO testing. Lower category race - from a risk / reward point of view UKAD probably didn't think it was worth it. Totally wrong.

Now its pretty risky to gamble on that but then maybe if you're immersed in a sport you'd know a lot more about what sort of testing would be happening (I don't mean by bribing people, maybe its just more well known).

 

[gillan1969]

Which he needed for the TOB surely, even with 54% hct if he hadnt been protected rider he would have been futher down the field

to be at the business end of a world's road race at the start of the last climb in amongst that company in the longest race of your life is and was a stand out performance for him...winning the ToB was not....no disrespect to it...but relative 'punters' can win races like the ToB

 

[del1962]

After reading a lot of stuff I'm pretty much of the opinion now that this was the result of amateurish doping and being really stupid about it.

I don't think SKY/BC doped him - if they had, I'm pretty sure they'd know how to make sure his off score wasn't ballistic, etc. Also I think they would have come up with a far better reason than a booze up. I do think they have been incredibly naïve / stupid if the post Worlds blood test was almost off the scale too.

I don't think it was Endura either - smaller team, lower ranks (although that doesn't mean it couldn't have been). But whats in it for them? I mean - why make their rider more attractive to top teams? Unless he was under contract and needed to be bought out, which I don't believe he was.

Exactly,

hwoever there should be some crticism of Sky for not doing proper checks prior to hiring him, I have heard a poster on here say some in the Team where against hiring him but Brailsford overuled them.

 

[thehog]

Not sure why ppl think his 19th in the worlds as protected rider is better than winning the TOB, seems a somewhat odd opinion to me.

Considering Cavendish was race leader through to stage 5 and JTL didn't even win a stage I think you can see how much of a procession the ToB was.

At the Worlds almost half the field dropped out including 1-2 in the Tour de France. With 14km to go Contador attacked and JTL followed. With 4km to go JTL was still there with Gilbert. That's at 255km! His performance at the Worlds was extremely impressive. Just like his blood results the day after as measured by Sky.

 

[del1962]

Considering Cavendish was race leader through to stage 5 and JTL didn't even win a stage I think you can see how much of a procession the ToB was.

At the Worlds almost half the field dropped out including 1-2 in the Tour de France. With 14km to go Contador attacked and JTL followed. With 4km to go JTL was still there with Gilbert. That's at 255km! His performance at the Worlds was extremely impressive. Just like his blood results the day after as measured by Sky.

I know I am wasting my time, but you are saying the guy who in 2011 won the worlds was race leader at the TOB until stage 5.

I am not saying his worlds performance wasn't good, I just think winning the TOB was a bigger achievment than 19th in the worlds.

 

[Catwhoorg]

54% HCT is one thing

0.15% retics is to me the even bigger marker

He was so far outside the normal range for his red cells, his body has effectively shut down new production.

Horner's lowest ever of 0.39% stuck out like a sore thumb
Lance's comeback low of 0.51% looks positively normal then


He doped bigtime, in a stupid manner and got caught.

 

[SundayRider]

He probably wasn't tested at the Worlds though was he - only came 19th. Although you'd hope the authorities would be a bit savvy and perhaps test the top placed rider from each country regardless.

ToB had no EPO testing. Lower category race - from a risk / reward point of view UKAD probably didn't think it was worth it. Totally wrong.

Now its pretty risky to gamble on that but then maybe if you're immersed in a sport you'd know a lot more about what sort of testing would be happening (I don't mean by bribing people, maybe its just more well known).

If they're not going to test for EPO what is the real point in testing at all.

 

[SundayRider]

54% HCT is one thing

0.15% retics is to me the even bigger marker

He was so far outside the normal range for his red cells, his body has effectively shut down new production.

Horner's lowest ever of 0.39% stuck out like a sore thumb
Lance's comeback low of 0.51% looks positively normal then


He doped bigtime, in a stupid manner and got caught.

who was helping him though?

 

[the sceptic]

who was helping him though?

No one is my guess. I doubt very much that endura would organize something like this. And he was riding like Riis before sky/bc/Brailsfraud got involved.

JTL didnt care about doping himself to the brink of what is healthy, or maybe he didnt know what he was doing.. But either way, he almost made it. He got the fat contract, but he didnt have the bio passport excuse that Dawg has. Otherwise he might be winning grand tours too.

 

[thehog]

I know I am wasting my time, but you are saying the guy who in 2011 won the worlds was race leader at the TOB until stage 5.

.

I'm not saying it, I'm stating fact. If you think the 2011 Worlds course was anything remotely like the one in 2012 then heaven help you.

Just as an ...fyi... to assist you with your cycling learning curve, Mark Cavendish is a sprinter.

That same guy who is a sprinter dropped out of the 2012 Worlds very early on. Halfway. In fact he lead the GB team on the opening laps at the front of the field. he had no hope on a course like that.

But lets hear from Sir Dave on what he thought;

As for Tiernan-Locke, his finishing position of 19th just five seconds behind Gilbert, does him little justice. Until the final 2.5km, over a course which was 61km longer than he has ever raced before, the Endura rider went toe-to-toe with cycling’s modern day greats and did not bat an eyelid. He reacted to every move, not least when Alberto Contador attacked threateningly and then positioned himself cannily over the final two laps until his lack of experience over this distance told at the death.

Britain's performance director Dave Brailsford said: “For his first race at this level, over that distance, Jonathan Tiernan-Locke’s performance was remarkable and bodes well for the future. This guy will win big races for sure. He showed great confidence and character riding at that level for the first time.

So Cavendish holding the race leader to Stage 5 at the ToB shows you what the ToB course was like. JTL won the race because he kept his postion high in the flat stages. Koenig won the Queen mountain (if you can call it that) stage.

 

[mrhender]

who was helping him though?

Probably someone, who knew someone, who knew someone, who knew someone....

The manual he got, and followed was subsequently with the result we see now...

 

[neineinei]

If they're not going to test for EPO what is the real point in testing at all.

To be able to say they have tested. And then the cyclists can say they are clean, because the have been tested hundreds of times and never been positive. And now and then they catch some fool for Stanozolol or Methylhexanamine, and then they can say doping is bad but the system is working.

 

[del1962]

I'm not saying it, I'm stating fact.

I have seen your facts before, one of that there was no evidence JTL doped prior to signing for Sky, this fact of yours fly directkly in the face of what is set out in the UKAD doping document which says he doped 10-14 days prior to the test.

The reality is that you are not all interested in facts, just conflict.

 

[mrhender]

To be able to say they have tested. And then the cyclists can say they are clean, because the have been tested hundreds of times and never been positive. And now and then they catch some fool for Stanozolol or Methylhexanamine, and then they can say doping is bad but the system is working.

Travis Tygart on the matter of testing:

Well, there are really two key questions. First, how good are your policies – and who are the signatories to those policies? And second, how effective are you at implementing those policies – how good are your methods and procedures? It isn’t enough just to test more, you have to ask what are you testing for? Are you testing for EPO and conducting blood testing? Are you utilizing special analysis testing like human growth hormone (HGH) or carbon isotope ratio testing (CIR)? My concerns about the UCI program were primarily control, and lack of independence. The UCI essentially controlled its own testing program, and could level charges or ignore infractions at its own discretion. We have said it many times before, but it is impossible to effectively promote a sport and police it. There is an inherent conflict.

(from june 11th this year)
http://www.theouterline.com/changing-pro-cycling-the-perspective-of-travis-t-tygart/

A full read of the interwiev reveals that he seems to be a lot less woirried about Cookson.

P.S don't know if posted here before.. A few months old..

 

[Catwhoorg]

Why does he need help ?

EPO (if that's what he took) is not a controlled drug in the UK.
It literally can be got by mail order, a single course is not expensive on its own.
(You can google it yourself I'm not providing links)

HGH also not controlled (neither are most designer peptides).

Get to steroids and those are controlled drugs, so a little harder to get, but really not by much, but at least the police will get involved and talk with the anti-doping authorities here.

If he dropped a blood bag, then there may be a bit more need of some first hand advice/experience, but really not by that much. Knowing how to store it is the key thing.

 

[RownhamHill]

Why does he need help ?

EPO (if that's what he took) is not a controlled drug in the UK.
It literally can be got by mail order, a single course is not expensive on its own.
(You can google it yourself I'm not providing links)

HGH also not controlled (neither are most designer peptides).

Get to steroids and those are controlled drugs, so a little harder to get, but really not by much, but at least the police will get involved and talk with the anti-doping authorities here.

If he dropped a blood bag, then there may be a bit more need of some first hand advice/experience, but really not by that much. Knowing how to store it is the key thing.

Re the blood bags - if you've read the description of Landis and Leiphiemer's DIY transfusions in Juliet Macur's book it's not exactly a highly expensive procedure.

 

[thehog]

I have seen your facts before, one of that there was no evidence JTL doped prior to signing for Sky, this fact of yours fly directkly in the face of what is set out in the UKAD doping document which says he doped 10-14 days prior to the test.

The reality is that you are not all interested in facts, just conflict.

I'm actually not following what you're saying. I've never said he wasn't doping prior to signature. And you've actually avoided everything I presented.

What I've said he was training with Sky since April 2012, performed lactate tests, used a Sky power meter and was handed over to Sky in full in November. He performed further tests with Sky the day after the Worlds and Kerrison based on those numbers put him into the GT training program.

JTL was doped for the Worlds, hence why his result was annulled.

If you wish to quote the UKAD document it doesn't make any comment that he was doped in any of his races prior to the Worlds, not even the ToB (albeit lack of EPO testing). So if you wish to take the document as virtue then yes he was "clean" all of 2012 until the Worlds.

That's not conflict that just fact.

Perhaps the conflict is within yourself?

 

[SundayRider]

Re the blood bags - if you've read the description of Landis and Leiphiemer's DIY transfusions in Juliet Macur's book it's not exactly a highly expensive procedure.

Still need help with the practical side of it don't you.