Juan Ayuso discussion thread

[Cycling111]

I'm still gonna say Broe is the one who got Ayuso this reputation. Years before tdf 2024 by saying Ayuso refuses to ride for anyone and just how much he loves Ayuso for it. But now even he said it would look better if Ayuso stayed as a domestique for Del Toro bc his reputation is absolutely horrible right now. Ayuso is but a kid. I feel bad for him for sure.

Let's not forget that Broe works for Visma, and before joining its staff.
They have been collaborating with them since 2022.

I feel like they used Ayuso to try to discredit Pogacar.

I remember one of their collaborators saying throughout 2023 that Ayuso should be the leader in 2024 and Pogacar his domestique. Taking out supposed watts to ensure that Ayuso was going to be better in the Tour.

I find it curious that they're criticizing Pogacar's followers here and, on the other hand, praising those in LR who have interests with Visma.
It's clear they've tried to use this to destabilize Pogacar, who is Vingegaard's real rival, not Ayuso.

If I speak....

Actually I will speak. Ayuso was given a 'bad guy' reputation when Pogi diehards decided anything less than total fealty to his lordship Pogi the magnificent was unacceptable.

I'm totally ambivalent on the question because let's face facts here i.e. who are we kidding? Pog hardly needed his help.

The big difference is that the Pogacar fans, whom some criticize so much, have no real interests; Broe does have them with Visma, which I find ethically much worse. The rest are fanatical opinions, but we're talking about workers here.

What would you think if a UAE manager or collaborator had been saying that Roglic should be Vingegaard's domestique and using that rivalry to claim that the bad guy isn't Vingegaard, but Rogic it´s a bullye?

That's basically what they've done with the Ayuso-Pogacar situation. They're trying to say how bad Pogacar was, that Ayuso should have been a co-leader, but Ayuso was not because of Pogacar...
That's what happened. Having interests with a team, they've been sowing discord between two riders from another team. They're not fans; they're Visma collaborators.

That's what's worrying, not what anonymous fanatics say.

 

[Lequack]

Stagnation or no stagnation, he has had impressively bad luck in his GTs. Covid in the 2022 Vuelta, completely messed up season hindering him in the 2023 Vuelta, Covid again in last year's Tour and now a knee injury. That's four from four GTs where he has been prevented from performing at 100%. If he was more likeable (and preferably not on UAE) it would have made him a Landa-esque popular underdog.

Is he turning into Roglic?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Could've raced SB

Pogi did it and did crashed. So in the end it doesn't make much difference, the purpose of such stage is clear, shuffle GC, by mechanicals, punctures, crashes and injuries. Skill in term of a GT peloton going over it IMHO plays a negligible role. Luck is by far the biggest factor, on where we are talking about GT peloton. As some fans praise on how it should be included in GTs due to riders showing skills, on how complete riders they are. Now we see that, two of main GT favourites already out, before it even started.

This really is good for GT racing, such skill. I am sure that this Giro edition profited massively from it.

 

[AmRacer]

Pogi did it and did crashed. So in the end it doesn't make much difference, the purpose of such stage is clear, shuffle GC, by mechanicals, punctures, crashes and injuries. Skill in term of a GT peloton going over it IMHO plays a negligible role. Luck is by far the biggest factor, on where we are talking about GT peloton. As some fans praise on how it should be included in GTs due to riders showing skills, on how complete riders they are. Now we see that, two of main GT favourites already out, before it even started.

This really is good for GT racing, such skill. I am sure that this Giro edition profited massively from it.

Pogi crashed and won. Landa crashed on a normal stage.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Pogi crashed and won. Landa crashed on a normal stage.

Yeah, Pogi crashed, superior riding skills and positioning, lots of training and race experience ... So you see it doesn't matter in the end. That is on why it's there for.

As for this GT, the stage took out and injured two pre-race favourites. In my book and in comparison to other sports that instantly demotes relevance of such sporting event to garbage. On why GT organisers sell a perfectly good GT event, for one day freak show, beats me. I personally wouldn't do it. Integrity of a GT race would always take priority, just like i wouldn't include hurdles in the marathon, it's just whacked.

Indeed Landa crashed on a normal stage. Giro and this sport specifically is plagued with athlete injuries already, bad image on the sport, hence i find it even harder to understand, on why one would do it intentionally. It's bad as it is, without help.

 

[AmRacer]

Yeah, Pogi crashed, superior riding skills and positioning, lots of training and race experience ... So you see it doesn't matter in the end. That is on why it's there for.

As for this GT, the stage took out and injured two pre-race favourites. In my book and in comparison to other sports that instantly demotes relevance of such sporting event to garbage. On why GT organisers sell a perfectly good GT event, for one day freak show, beats me. I personally wouldn't do it. Integrity of a GT race would always take priority, just like i wouldn't include hurdles in the marathon, it's just whacked.

Indeed Landa crashed on a normal stage. Giro and this sport specifically is plagued with athlete injuries already, bad image on the sport, hence i find it even harder to understand, on why one would do it intentionally. It's bad as it is, without help.

Lots of crashes today too.
Superior riding skills make you win races.

 

[yaco]

The pertinent question is what team will Ayuso ride for in 2026? If we are to believe the rumours about team disharmony combined with the growth of Del Toro and Almeida this leaves little for Ayuso.

 

[carolina]

I felt he was ready this year to win his first GT, this Giro was a good opportunity. Still believe he will get one.

Was he planned for the Vuelta? Otherwise another year with bad luck in his GT.

Almeida (and Pogacar?) are planned for the Vuelta.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Lots of crashes today too.

Yeah, a crash fest. So adding even more, with intention, whacked.

Superior riding skills make you win races.

Does it, or is this some sort of meme? Or better, Roglič is by this definition a rider with superior riding skills? Why did he crashed then, on a mini SB, with most of other GC favourites crashing too. Why did Pogi crash on the real SB? It doesn't really add up, does it? How can Rogla, Pogi, Ayuso and most of GC favourites on this Giro edition be considered as riders with poor skills, considering they win so much. This sport really is unique in this regards.

 

[AmRacer]

Yeah, a crash fest. So adding even more, with intention, whacked.



Does it, or is this some sort of meme? Or better, Roglič is by this definition a rider with superior riding skills? Why did he crashed then, on a mini SB, with most of other GC favourites crashing too. Why did Pogi crash on the real SB? It doesn't really add up, does it? How can Rogla, Pogi, Ayuso and most of GC favourites on this Giro edition be considered as riders with poor skills, considering they win so much. This sport really is unique in this regards.

Roglic isn't a rider with superior bike handling skills.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Roglic isn't a rider with superior bike handling skills.

I see. Who would you put ahead in terms of stage racing? Del Toro?

 

[AmRacer]

I see. Who would you put ahead in terms of stage racing? Del Toro?

What has stage racing to do with bike handling skills?

 

[Sciatic]

What has stage racing to do with bike handling skills?

I would say it’s more specifically bike-stability and proximity awareness, which are a part of bike handling separate from cornering and bunny hops.

 

[CyclistAbi]

What has stage racing to do with bike handling skills?

Here you lost me.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@AmRacer

No need to drag this further, there was enough contradictions involved already, so i assume you are just making them up as you go. For example:

Superior riding skills make you win races.

Roglic isn't a rider with superior bike handling skills.

Primož Roglič

Primož RogliÄ (born 1989-10-29 in Trbovlje) is a professional road racing cyclist from Slovenia, currently riding for Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe. His best results are 4 wins in GC Vuelta a España and 15 stage wins in Vuelta a España.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[AmRacer]

@AmRacer

No need to drag this further, there was enough contradictions involved already, so i assume you are just making them up as you go. For example:

Primož Roglič

Primož RogliÄ (born 1989-10-29 in Trbovlje) is a professional road racing cyclist from Slovenia, currently riding for Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe. His best results are 4 wins in GC Vuelta a España and 15 stage wins in Vuelta a España.

www.procyclingstats.com

Nope, you are making things up and contracting yourself.

 

[red_flanders]

Moderation:

The topic of this thread is Juan Ayuso, not Primoz Roglic.

If you are interested in discussing Roglic, how the design of the Giro affected Roglic, whether Roglic is a good bike handler, how crashes affect the perception of the sport...there are threads for literally all those things. Please take the discussions to those threads.

I'm not suggesting one can't mention Roglic on an Ayuso thread. Of course that's fine, they were competing in the same race and will again. But one cannot derail an Ayuso thread with extended discussions of other riders, with zero content about Ayuso. There's a rule against that.

As you can see, it degenerates into bickering.

Please do not respond to this message. Thank you.

 

[Mako]

I still think he will be riding for Movistar in 2026. Change my mind!

 

[Red Rick]

0 reason for UAE to let him go, 0 reason for anyone to buy him out at inflated price. I don't see why he wouldn't finish his contract.

 

[Mako]

0 reason for UAE to let him go, 0 reason for anyone to buy him out at inflated price. I don't see why he wouldn't finish his contract.

But what good for is a rider that is potentially very unhappy. Why wouldn't he go to a team where he could be the undisputed number#1. Maybe it would be beneficial for both UAE and him to find his luck elsewhere? Pogi is the reigning king and he's no longer the main contender for the usurper, as IDT is the new Wunderkind.

But yeah, it's all just speculation and maybe I'm just looking for the drama.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

But what good for is a rider that is potentially very unhappy. Why wouldn't he go to a team where he could be the undisputed number#1. Maybe it would be beneficial for both UAE and him to find his luck elsewhere? Pogi is the reigning king and he's no longer the main contender for the usurper, as IDT is the new Wunderkind.

But yeah, it's all just speculation and maybe I'm just looking for the drama.

Ayoso isn't a big enough rider to cause any kind of serious issue contractually. If the rider wants to move on, I think it can be easily arranged without too much cash changing hands

 

[Mayomaniac]

Best thing he could do to shut up his detractors is to stay in the race and help Del Toro win the Giro.

 

[Red Rick]

But what good for is a rider that is potentially very unhappy. Why wouldn't he go to a team where he could be the undisputed number#1. Maybe it would be beneficial for both UAE and him to find his luck elsewhere? Pogi is the reigning king and he's no longer the main contender for the usurper, as IDT is the new Wunderkind.

But yeah, it's all just speculation and maybe I'm just looking for the drama.

It seems to me Ayuso gets to lead a GT Pogacar isn't racing every year. Not sure if that's hard coded into their contracts, but if that's the case, I'd feel fine about staying.

Any drama with Del Toro isn't real drama, it's just minor tension and being injured. Again.

Clearly UAE aren't freezing him out of the team. And clearly UAE are still one of the best paying and best performing teams.

I don't see the problem with riding a Pogacar free schedule at all.

 

[Red Rick]

Best thing he could do to shut up his detractors is to stay in the race and help Del Toro win the Giro.

"Best I can do is be injured, get dropped every day and get all the criticism when Del Toro loses the Giro"

 

[theyoungest]

Let's not forget that Broe works for Visma, and before joining its staff.
They have been collaborating with them since 2022.

I feel like they used Ayuso to try to discredit Pogacar.

I remember one of their collaborators saying throughout 2023 that Ayuso should be the leader in 2024 and Pogacar his domestique. Taking out supposed watts to ensure that Ayuso was going to be better in the Tour.

I find it curious that they're criticizing Pogacar's followers here and, on the other hand, praising those in LR who have interests with Visma.
It's clear they've tried to use this to destabilize Pogacar, who is Vingegaard's real rival, not Ayuso.



The big difference is that the Pogacar fans, whom some criticize so much, have no real interests; Broe does have them with Visma, which I find ethically much worse. The rest are fanatical opinions, but we're talking about workers here.

What would you think if a UAE manager or collaborator had been saying that Roglic should be Vingegaard's domestique and using that rivalry to claim that the bad guy isn't Vingegaard, but Rogic it´s a bullye?

That's basically what they've done with the Ayuso-Pogacar situation. They're trying to say how bad Pogacar was, that Ayuso should have been a co-leader, but Ayuso was not because of Pogacar...
That's what happened. Having interests with a team, they've been sowing discord between two riders from another team. They're not fans; they're Visma collaborators.

That's what's worrying, not what anonymous fanatics say.

Yes, it's all been one huge plot by Visma to destabilize Pogacar, by having someone on Lanterne Rouge say Ayuso is better than him. And boy has it worked! Pogacar has been completely destroyed.