Juan Ayuso discussion thread

[Berniece]

In stage races, Vingegaard has basically been the 2nd best on even 5 minute climbs behind Pogacar for a few years now.

In the stage race ranking of the UCI he's actually #1

 

[SHAD0W93]

Good win for Ayuso but it’ll be interesting to see how he handles the results going his way.

In the stage race ranking of the UCI he's actually #1

Vingegaard also does more stage races than Pogacar but Pogacar is the one with better results.

 

[Berniece]

Vingegaard also does more stage races than Pogacar but Pogacar is the one with better results.

Yeah it's a silly ranking. In 2025 Pogacar won UAE, Dauphine and TDF. Vingegaard Pologne and Vuelta, but because he was 2nd in Dauphine and TDF he is #1.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Yeah it's a silly ranking. In 2025 Pogacar won UAE, Dauphine and TDF. Vingegaard Pologne and Vuelta, but because he was 2nd in Dauphine and TDF he is #1.

Vingo won Algarve, not Pologne in 2025. Vuelta victory + Tour runner up gives a lot of points. Pogacar is too busy with classics and does few stage races per year.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Good win for Ayuso but it’ll be interesting to see how he handles the results going his way.

If he really got better I would expect him to be closer to Vingegaard than during Tirreno 2024 (the Dane's form will probably be lower than 2 years back, he had some setbacks and isn't the alien he used to be).

 

[YavorD]

Ayuso made the right and normal decision btw, he was degraded to 4 in line at UAE and wanted freedom.

Win-win as Ayuso gets more freedom. Good rider temu version of del toro though

Don't think Del Toro is better than him at the moment actually.
Both of them rather similar riders with Ayuso being a much better TTer. Give Ayuso the same schedule Del Toro had last year and he has double digit wins as well.
Del Toro could have improved though. The same goes for Ayuso actually as well, though not very likely, he is only a year older than the Mexican.

Both resemble Valverde to me with the latter actually excelling in long races.

 

[YavorD]

I very much look forward to Itzulia.
Ayuso vs Del Toro on these Basque climbs should be a great battle. Mix up with Seixas and it should be an amazing race.
With RvV right before and PR right after, it should make the best week of racing of the season.

 

[James M]

Don't think Del Toro is better than him at the moment actually.
Both of them rather similar riders with Ayuso being a much better TTer. Give Ayuso the same schedule Del Toro had last year and he has double digit wins as well.
Del Toro could have improved though. The same goes for Ayuso actually as well, though not very likely, he is only a year older than the Mexican.

Both resemble Valverde to me with the latter actually excelling in long races.

Already last year he lost his spot internally, wc he couldnt follow, so im not sure about the excelling more in long races part. He has an impressive sprint no doubt, but not like Del Toro.

Theyre both good and talented so for me its about trajectory and its night and day. Im pretty certain by the end of the year he’ll be a glorified temu version of Del Toro but lets see. I cheer for and rate Ayuso too hes very good/talent.

 

[James M]

I very much look forward to Itzulia.
Ayuso vs Del Toro on these Basque climbs should be a great battle. Mix up with Seixas and it should be an amazing race.
With RvV right before and PR right after, it should make the best week of racing of the season.

itzulia should be 10/10. I hadnt checked and didnt know Seixas would too thats going to be a banger no doubt

 

[YavorD]

Already last year he lost his spot internally, wc he couldnt follow, so im not sure about the excelling more in long races part. He has an impressive sprint no doubt, but not like Del Toro.

Theyre both good and talented so for me its about trajectory and its night and day. Im pretty certain by the end of the year he’ll be a glorified temu version of Del Toro but lets see. I cheer for and rate Ayuso too hes very good/talent.

I didn't mean than Ayuso excels in long races. I think he doesn't, like Del Toro.
My point was that Del Toro and Ayuso resemble Valverde as skill set, but they're not as good as Valverde was. At least not yet.

 

[Cycling111]

I very much look forward to Itzulia.
Ayuso vs Del Toro on these Basque climbs should be a great battle. Mix up with Seixas and it should be an amazing race.
With RvV right before and PR right after, it should make the best week of racing of the season.

Are you sure Ayuso would have beaten Pidcock at Emilia like that?

And in GT, while I have doubts about Del Toro in the mountains, I have even more doubts about Ayuso. Ayuso has given an even worse impression in all his GT. Del Toro's Giro is better than the GTs that Ayuso has finished.

 

[James M]

I didn't mean than Ayuso excels in long races. I think he doesn't, like Del Toro.
My point was that Del Toro and Ayuso resemble Valverde as skill set, but they're not as good as Valverde was. At least not yet.

Sure. I think thats premature tho, and severely overblowned considering he was 21 and finished 5 in Lombardia.

I think it has more to do with the fact he wasnt good enough yet vs the best or maybe something in between considering he was 21, I just think people are setting themselves up to be surprised as he continues to get stronger that will take care of itself when hes already been 5 at age 21 riding his first he can ride em.

More resemblance to Roglic to me in Del Toros early days now, which will only evolve with his rapid development

 

[YavorD]

Sure. I think thats premature tho, and severely overblowned considering he was 21 and finished 5 in Lombardia.

I think it has more to do with the fact he wasnt good enough yet vs the best or maybe something in between considering he was 21, I just think people are setting themselves up to be surprised as he continues to get stronger that will take care of itself when hes already been 5 at age 21 riding his first he can ride em.

More resemblance to Roglic to me in Del Toros early days now, which will only evolve with his rapid development

Ayuso is the more accurate resemblance to Roglic though as he is a really good TT ruder.

And no, Ayuso wasn't degraded to 4th at UAE. Everything Dep Toro did last year is well within Ayuso's reach, okay beating Pidcock in Emilia may be hard, but I wouldn't say impossible either. Probably Siena is the only thing Ayuso couldn't do, but then Ayuso is the better TTer as of now, so..

As I said, both are fairly similar riders and being the same(ish) age, both of them can improve.

 

[canina82]

Ayuso is the more accurate resemblance to Roglic though as he is a really good TT ruder.

And no, Ayuso wasn't degraded to 4th at UAE. Everything Dep Toro did last year is well within Ayuso's reach, okay beating Pidcock in Emilia may be hard, but I wouldn't say impossible either. Probably Siena is the only thing Ayuso couldn't do, but then Ayuso is the better TTer as of now, so..

As I said, both are fairly similar riders and being the same(ish) age, both of them can improve.

What Del Toro did in the Giro is yet to be done by Ayuso.

 

[Red Rick]

What Del Toro did in the Giro is yet to be done by Ayuso.

Get like 8th on the one big MTF and then ship 5 minutes+ on the queen stage?

 

[James M]

Ayuso is the more accurate resemblance to Roglic though as he is a really good TT ruder.

As I said, both are fairly similar riders and being the same(ish) age, both of them can improve.

Ayuso resembles Roglic even more indeed. Its early days, with some similarities here and there who cares.

Obviously both can improve, and I expect Ayuso to as well. His trajectory is night and day compared to Del Toros tho. Its Nvidia vs. Intel. By the end of the year it will be clear hes a temu version of Del Toro to you too

 

[Unchained]

Ayuso did a bunch of things that were absolutely essential for a good start. He rode aggressively, excellent positioning and tactics. He showed both UAE management and ex teammates that he is for real, he beat Almedia and put some of the debate about comparison and inner competition is put to rest.
He showed Trek that they made a good choice, he challenged all comers. Things will only get better for Trek and Ayuso. He looked well prepared.

 

[canina82]

Get like 8th on the one big MTF and then ship 5 minutes+ on the queen stage?

Still better than anything Ayuso has done in his career

 

[YavorD]

What Del Toro did in the Giro is yet to be done by Ayuso.

Del Toro was like the 4th best climber in a Giro with rather shallow mountain stages. In a field that had probably 5 of the top 6 favourites DNF or hurt by crashes.
Really what he did in that Giro gets massively overrated. The way he was dropped on Mortirolo, had they climbed proper Mortirolo, or at least Recta Contador, I don't think he finishes on podium.

Unless he doesn't get saved by his team of course.

 

[Cycling111]

Del Toro was like the 4th best climber in a Giro with rather shallow mountain stages. In a field that had probably 5 of the top 6 favourites DNF or hurt by crashes.
Really what he did in that Giro gets massively overrated. The way he was dropped on Mortirolo, had they climbed proper Mortirolo, or at least Recta Contador, I don't think he finishes on podium.

Unless he doesn't get saved by his team of course.

What has Ayuso done that's superior to that?
Ayuso's podium in GT also came after several retirements. I don't see the superiority you're suggesting.

Apart of GT, I think Del Toro's victory in Emilia against Pidcock is superior than the races Ayuso won in France against Scaroni.
Pidcock is one of the best punchers in the world.

I think they're pretty evenly matched, but I think Del Toro is slightly superior because his punch is
awesome, so she can win races like Emilia against someone like Pidcock. In that type of race, I see him superior to Ayuso.

 

[hayneplane]

P-N will be a rematch between Trek and Ineos as the latter will tentatively field Vaquelin, Rodriguez and Onley. As far as I know, a healthy Rodriguez could outwork Ayuso in longer climbs. Skjelmose will be starting at Trek, and if the issue of team leadership will be resolved on the road, Trek should utilize their 19 years old helper if the two leaders could not work together.

PN is the kind of race where riding an aggressive multi pronged leadership tactic can pay off.

 

[YavorD]

Ayuso resembles Roglic even more indeed. Its early days, with some similarities here and there who cares.

Obviously both can improve, and I expect Ayuso to as well. His trajectory is night and day compared to Del Toros tho. Its Nvidia vs. Intel. By the end of the year it will be clear hes a temu version of Del Toro to you too

Wel, if you think that Ayuso can and will improve and yet he'll be like a "temu version of Del Toro", it should mean that you think that Del Toro will be capable of beating prime Pogacar.
Sorry, bu it seems unlikely.
Though Del Toro may end up a better rider, if Ayuso improves further he'd be one of the best riders on his own.

 

[James M]

Wel, if you think that Ayuso can and will improve and yet he'll be like a "temu version of Del Toro", it should mean that you think that Del Toro will be capable of beating prime Pogacar.
Sorry, bu it seems unlikely.
Though Del Toro may end up a better rider, if Ayuso improves further he'd be one of the best riders on his own.

I dont think he will ever come close to Pogacar at anything nor anyone else, he however is his pupil and have direct inside to his program which hes also on thats an edge (interpret that as you want)

I dont disagree with you that much btw I dont think Del toro is much better than Ayuso right now. Del Toros trajectory however is night and day to him, and I expect him to dwarf him. Whether he does or not remains to be seen.

 

[YavorD]

What has Ayuso done that's superior to that?
Ayuso's podium in GT also came after several retirements. I don't see the superiority you're suggesting.

Apart of GT, I think Del Toro's victory in Emilia against Pidcock is superior than the races Ayuso won in France against Scaroni.
Pidcock is one of the best punchers in the world.

I think they're pretty evenly matched, but I think Del Toro is slightly superior because his punch is
awesome, so she can win races like Emilia against someone like Pidcock. In that type of race, I see him superior to Ayuso.

Where exactly did I say Ayuso has done something far superior?
Also, again you're holding to that one result against Pidcock.
Well, Ayuso has beaten Ganna in a pan flat TT then, and Del Toro can't do that either.
With Ayuso being better TT rider, he should win more GC's than Del Toro surely, no?

Ayuso is rather snappy as well. And even if Del Toro may be more explosive, for me Ayuso is closer to del Toro in terms of explosiveness than Del Toro is to Ayuso in terms of TT abilities making Ayuso the slightly superior GC rider at the moment. No?

 

[fenns]

for me the exciting thing about Ayuso is that we don't really know how good he is because he's been inhibited by being with UAE. He always looked in control last week against strong competitors