JV and Garmin - paragons of cleanER?

[the sceptic]

We all play by the same rules with anonymity on here so that's fair enough. I don't think on twitter it's looked at from a validity point of view. I think if you go around throwing your weight, sometimes in a vitriol manner, you man up and put your name to it. It's very easy for people to say it doesn't matter but then they're not on the end of it. Digger has consistently did this in reference to JV like calling him a ####head. Kennaugh and Fran Millar have had unprovoked attacks.

It's the one thing I hate with modern social media, yes it's gives access to important people in walks of life but it's also used as an abuse of power where people use to build up their own self importance.

I said to JV and Neal Rogers the other day, ignore the likes of Digger and co on twitter who have no interest in tbe welfare of the sport. They are in it for the entertainment value and love the controversy that feeds their needs. I don't respect their opinion whatsoever and there's a few more on here I put in this category as well. Not one good thing do they have to say about the sport. The wake up and watch a race with the sole ambition of hoping to get a doping angle from it. You wouldn't hear a murmur on their part about a credible guy like Phil Gaimon performing in San Luis earlier in the year and Utah just this week. The same with Dan Martin who has shown a realistic career progress path with no doping link.

If I have ever feel the need to respond and disagree with JV on twitter, I put my name to it where I can be held to account on it.

for someone who spends most of his time defending obvious dopers, it seems a bit hypocritical of you to say that digger has no interest in the welfare of the sport.

 

[DirtyWorks]

It's the one thing I hate with modern social media, yes it's gives access to important people in walks of life but it's also used as an abuse of power where people use to build up their own self importance.

What power? What access? It doesn't sound like you have a solid grasp of how it works.

I said to JV and Neal Rogers the other day, ignore the likes of Digger and co on twitter who have no interest in tbe welfare of the sport.

Who does? The UCI? Digger calls out the pro sport's B.S. and for that he's marginalized. Right. Will I defend every published Digger missive ever? No. But, at times, he's spot on.

Not one good thing do they have to say about the sport. The wake up and watch a race with the sole ambition of hoping to get a doping angle from it.

Uh huh. We're all bitter haters if we dare challenge actors words and actions in the sport. How dare anyone be so bold!

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Uh huh. We're all bitter haters if we dare challenge actors words and actions in the sport. How dare anyone be so bold!

I just don't get the impression that the most outrageous posters here have much experience with bike racing.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I just don't get the impression that the most outrageous posters here have much experience with bike racing.

I don't have any experience with politics, but I am pretty confident politicians can and should be pulled up on their lies, deceit and general misbehaviour despite that lack of experience. Politicians, however, would probably disagree, and say that their actions are required due to the environment in which they work - and more often than not, disagree with the interviewer questioning their lies, deceit and misbehaviour.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I don't have any experience with politics, but I am pretty confident politicians can and should be pulled up on their lies, deceit and general misbehaviour despite that lack of experience. Politicians, however, would probably disagree, and say that their actions are required due to the environment in which they work - and more often than not, disagree with the interviewer questioning their lies, deceit and misbehaviour.

Whether sports administrators would like to ever admit it, they have to appeal to the little people who don't understand the sophisticated sport they rule.

 

[Digger]

...OK, you can microdose a transfusion and what my guess is the amount of sleep you lose wondering if your room will be raided by French police at any given moment, or that somehow you’ll screw it up, that 80 hours of sleep you lose might offset the 2 percent oxygen gain.

Kohl: when had he ever done 3rd in the Tour – not ever, I mean not even close. People ask what did Christian ever do.

Kohl was finishing way down and then all of a sudden, boom! That’s more indicative of a doped rider doing well in a clean environment, because they have no talent, as opposed to everyone else is doing it. It’s a risky environment right now because you can make a donkey into a racehorse right now

http://blogs.bicycling.com/blogs/bo...-interview-evolution-at-garmin-not-revolution

From JV in 2009 about Kohl...

Yet Froome must have some kind of crazy adaptive physiology.

No need for this on Kohl - just like there was no need for it on Joerg...and it's ironic that the bully card is used so often by certain people....

He'd have a different book out. He'd have not lost a penny. He'd be admired by young people. He would have a different life ahead of him. He'd be in a decent mental state. He'd be sober.

"And he'd be married."

However, many in cycling believe doping was widespread in the early 2000s. How does anyone know Landis is lying?

"That's the problem," Millar said. "Now he's lost the ability to tell the truth whether it is or not.

``You're not going to believe too much of it, that's for sure,'' Vande Velde said. ``It has been a long stream of lies. I'd like to say I was surprised, but nothing about Floyd surprises me any more.''

between Joerg, Kohl and Floyd, they have all been attacked by one or more members of that team...there is a common denominator between those three.

Oh and another guy - Alex Rasmussen on Michael Rasmussen's tell all. (Alex being with Garmin at this point)

Alex Rasmussen ‏@AlexRazi 9m
@Vaughters @ryder_hesjedal Just one guy with zero credibility trying to shift blame, and sell some books in the process

 

[Digger]

The curious case of the Ryder doping timeline...

Scroll down for JV's tweets on it
http://velovoices.com/2013/11/04/tweets-of-the-week-extra-rasmussen-ryder-and-ricco/

 

[Benotti69]

I just don't get the impression that the most outrageous posters here have much experience with bike racing.

So only those who raced can dare comment on bike racing and doping. There's mature debate.......

 

[Digger]

If he had stood up and manned up four years ago, he'd be racing the Tour de France now," Millar said. "He'd have a different book out. He'd have not lost a penny. He'd be admired by young people. He would have a different life ahead of him. He'd be in a decent mental state. He'd be sober.

"And he'd be married."

However, many in cycling believe doping was widespread in the early 2000s. How does anyone know Landis is lying?

"That's the problem," Millar said. "Now he's lost the ability to tell the truth whether it is or not. That's what's despicable about

We supported Floyd where it counted, not in the media frenzy, and I stick by that choice 100%

...................

 

[Benotti69]

JV, next time you see Floyd you should ask him to come in here and give his opinion on the matter.

Landis has a qui tam case and should concentrate on that and not be talking on public forums.

 

[sniper]

Landis has a qui tam case and should concentrate on that and not be talking on public forums.

+1

Vaughters has a variety of reasons for posting here, imo exclusively PR related.

Landis otoh has little to win by posting in here.

 

[pmcg76]

...................

You know what would actually help in your crusade against JV. If you could actually come up with something new rather than rehash the same old stuff everyone already knows about.

If JV and Floyd are still friends and still in contact, that says more than any amount of "media bites" you can post in an effort to make it looked like Garmin somehow screwed Floyd.

If all you are trying to achieve is to show JV is a hypocrite, well that can be done for pretty much anybody connected with pro cycling and that includes Kimmage so it is hardly a revelatory viewpoint. Nobody in pro cycling is going to be ejected for being a hypocrite either.

I really don't get what your non-stop crusade against JV is about. If his team are doping and you have inside knowledge on this, then stop dancing around the issue and bring the info forward. Whether his riders all had the exact same opinions on dopers spilling their guts is hardly relevant in the grand scheme of anti-doping.

 

[pmcg76]

Landis has a qui tam case and should concentrate on that and not be talking on public forums.

Ah yes but when the FEDs/USADA case was ongoing and the Garmin boys were told to say nothing, they were called spineless and cowardly by numerous people. As usual, different strokes for different folks.

 

[Digger]

Ah yes but when the FEDs/USADA case was ongoing and the Garmin boys were told to say nothing, they were called spineless and cowardly by numerous people. As usual, different strokes for different folks.

Which would have been great if they did.

 

[Digger]

You know what would actually help in your crusade against JV. If you could actually come up with something new rather than rehash the same old stuff everyone already knows about.
If JV and Floyd are still friends and still in contact, that says more than any amount of "media bites" you can post in an effort to make it looked like Garmin somehow screwed Floyd.

If all you are trying to achieve is to show JV is a hypocrite, well that can be done for pretty much anybody connected with pro cycling and that includes Kimmage so it is hardly a revelatory viewpoint. Nobody in pro cycling is going to be ejected for being a hypocrite either.

I really don't get what your non-stop crusade against JV is about. If his team are doping and you have inside knowledge on this, then stop dancing around the issue and bring the info forward. Whether his riders all had the exact same opinions on dopers spilling their guts is hardly relevant in the grand scheme of anti-doping.

True...here's another one

``You're not going to believe too much of it, that's for sure,'' Vande Velde said. ``It has been a long stream of lies. I'd like to say I was surprised, but nothing about Floyd surprises me any more.''

 

[djpbaltimore]

You know what would actually help in your crusade against JV. If you could actually come up with something new rather than rehash the same old stuff everyone already knows about.

If JV and Floyd are still friends and still in contact, that says more than any amount of "media bites" you can post in an effort to make it looked like Garmin somehow screwed Floyd.

If all you are trying to achieve is to show JV is a hypocrite, well that can be done for pretty much anybody connected with pro cycling and that includes Kimmage so it is hardly a revelatory viewpoint. Nobody in pro cycling is going to be ejected for being a hypocrite either.

I really don't get what your non-stop crusade against JV is about. If his team are doping and you have inside knowledge on this, then stop dancing around the issue and bring the info forward. Whether his riders all had the exact same opinions on dopers spilling their guts is hardly relevant in the grand scheme of anti-doping.

+1. Really good post.

 

[sniper]

is to show JV is a hypocrite, well that can be done for pretty much anybody connected with pro cycling.

Be my guest. If you can, show me how guys like Leinders, Ferrari, Lefevre or Riis are putting themselves on anti-doping high horses as much as Vaughters/Braislford.

 

[Digger]

How?
If you can, show me how guys like Leinders, Ferrari, Lefevre or Riis are putting themselves on anti-doping high horses as much as Vaughters/Braislford?

I guess it all stands and falls by whether or not you believe Vaughters and Brailsford and whether you believe Wiggins, Froome and HEsjedal won those GTs clean or not.
You seem to be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt (correct me if i'm wrong).
Digger and others including myself aren't.

This...outside of maybe Brailsford, I honestly can't think of another team which has sold itself , from the outset with such an anti doping policy and such transparency...

Anti doping isn't just about passing a test.

As regards non stop about jv etc, plenty sky fans said It was non stop sky and froome...before that it was non stop VO2Max
it can't be non stop all of them.

 

[Race Radio]

You know what would actually help in your crusade against JV. If you could actually come up with something new rather than rehash the same old stuff everyone already knows about.

If JV and Floyd are still friends and still in contact, that says more than any amount of "media bites" you can post in an effort to make it looked like Garmin somehow screwed Floyd.

If all you are trying to achieve is to show JV is a hypocrite, well that can be done for pretty much anybody connected with pro cycling and that includes Kimmage so it is hardly a revelatory viewpoint. Nobody in pro cycling is going to be ejected for being a hypocrite either.

I really don't get what your non-stop crusade against JV is about. If his team are doping and you have inside knowledge on this, then stop dancing around the issue and bring the info forward. Whether his riders all had the exact same opinions on dopers spilling their guts is hardly relevant in the grand scheme of anti-doping.

+1

Good post

 

[Digger]

+1

Good post

Just to clarify something, can you seriously sit there and be ok with those interviews from Christian, Millar, Weltz and Wiggins?

Because you know what, if these guys had said nothing, I might not have agreed, but I would have understood....what actually happened was far worse...they went against a guy who they knew full well was being honest. And in two instances above, had first hand knowledge that landis was being honest...

At least Michael Barry had the grace to say I need to apologise to Floyd as he was right all along.

 

[Taxus4a]

+1

Good post

+2
Good arguments.

 

[sniper]

Just to clarify something, can you seriously sit there and be ok with those interviews from Christian, Millar, Weltz and Wiggins?

Race Radio applauding a post that accuses you of a 'nonstop crusade', why does that strike me as odd...

 

[Race Radio]

Just to clarify something, can you seriously sit there and be ok with those interviews from Christian, Millar, Weltz and Wiggins?

Of course not.

Nobody looks good in this mess. During his case Floyd said a lot of stupid stuff, I certainly don't hold it against him. I have joked with him about some of the crap I wrote about him. JV and Floyd still talk, have dinner, hang out, so while you might get worked up about it he has gotten over it.

 

[Digger]

Race Radio applauding a post that accuses you of a 'nonstop crusade', that's friggin hilarious.

haha!!! that's so true

 

[Digger]

Of course not.

Nobody looks good in this mess. During his case Floyd said a lot of stupid stuff, I certainly don't hold it against him. I have joked with him about some of the crap I wrote about him. JV and Floyd still talk, have dinner, hang out, so while you might get worked up about it he has gotten over it.

according to who (a) that they still hang out have dinner etc and (b) that he has gotten over it?
and secondly what stupid stuff did he say during the case?

thirdly, this podium of people who have brought down lance you spoke of a while back...you mentioned jv being up there...who else?