JV and Garmin - paragons of cleanER?

[Gung Ho Gun]

Wasn't Zabriskie actually turning out worse performances, consistently?

Worse than CSC, better than US Postal

 

[D-Queued]

...


As regards Gaimon, tattoos, etc, maybe he is clean, I don't know...but I remember a guy called Michael Barry used to wear an I am clean wristband.



...

Funny!

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

I dont think garmin have a team doping program, they seem to suck a bit too much for that. But I do agree that certain things dont add up.

How is Danielson suddenly so good at his age? And how come he is only good when riding in the US? I call bs.

But here we are, JV and friends celebrating Danielson beating the guy who they think is an obvious doper. Hypocrites.

JV claimed he was spending half a million $$s on internal testing every year!

I would be very surprise if that wasn't part of a program or was the program and called internal testing.

As for Garmin sucking, a GT win, a GT podium and 2 Monuments aint to sucky

 

[the sceptic]

JV claimed he was spending half a million $$s on internal testing every year!

I would be very surprise if that wasn't part of a program or was the program and called internal testing.

As for Garmin sucking, a GT win, a GT podium and 2 Monuments aint to sucky

True, but I would say those wins were more down to individual rather than team strength.

Its also obvious that JV gets very uncomfortable when he is pushed a bit, as evident by how easily he got upset at digger the other day.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Hes got a point. Why is Danielson a good doper? He looks to be just as unrepentant as the bad dopers like Di Luca and Lance.

Or does people actually think he is riding clean now?

Maybe Phil is doing the job he's paid to do? A reasonable roadie on the WT could never say, "I'll work for XYZ, but not ABC." Especially not a worker like Gaimon.

 

[the sceptic]

Maybe Phil is doing the job he's paid to do? A reasonable roadie on the WT could never say, "I'll work for XYZ, but not ABC." Especially not a worker like Gaimon.

Yeah I agree. My post was more directed towards the people who have this bad/good doper attitude and not just Gaimon.

 

[blackcat]

Well in fariness, Danielson did jack all at Fassa preformance wise and only lasted one season so maybe he wasn't on EPO but who knows. Could a rider win Langkawi without EPO?

rick crawford does blood spinning FTW

 

[blackcat]

Yeah, I'm not familiar with the specifics of the Rui case. Sounds as if it would have merit in an exemption scenario. Our policy isn't one of the ten commandments, so it can be adjusted. But to adjust it we would really need a compelling reason. I think in the cases you list above, I would probably just go with another rider and pass on the transfer, just for simplicity sake.

JV

I have come full circle now. (thats rhetoric, really, 180 degrees).

I think to have Garmin run a team with merely riders who do not do a little to compete, there is a domestic team in the US, a mediocre team with mediocre talent, a little like Drapac in Australia. And Drapac were handed their @rse by Huon Salmon Genesis Wealth over the past 4 years.

If Garmin pass the tests, and dont alert the bpp, I am content. I am aware if careful, the bpp is no panacea, like Ashenden demonstrated.

I am now even willing to have the spin shoveled down my throat. Its what ya gotta do. And Dear Wiggo, I was firmly in the corner you are inhabiting, for a good part of a decade across the Armstrong era. Its like the 12 steps of anti-doping. But I dont have any dog in the fight, and I could see competing on a cat1 level, you (hypothetical/generic) would get ****ed at having to compete against charged guys, and if you have an owner like JV then throw it back in your face, it would be galling.

Well, atleast it is not the POTUS. Its only cycling.

 

[blackcat]

Well in fariness, Danielson did jack all at Fassa preformance wise and only lasted one season so maybe he wasn't on EPO but who knows. Could a rider win Langkawi without EPO?

the guy who owned Colombia-Selle Italia always used to bring a pretty "hot" team there. Like in January, ONCE/Liberty always brought a "hot" team to Tour Down Under. They always could bring their "form" to the boil in Jan/Feb = NOT NORMAL. And I think Manolo Saiz mighta got some IGF-1 from Gropep in Adelaide for "takeaway" for Fuentes. The IGF-1 that was in Fuentes kitchen cabinet/bathroom cabinet was Adelaidian I reckon. And one of those envelopes with cash that turned up in his desk has Australian currency and Swiss currency in the one envelope. My source was a Belgian paper, but we are going back now 8 years. It could have been a Dutch one, no, I think it was the Belgian one that covered a fair whack of rennsport on the web.

Anyone with a little bit of knowledge could guess how this all went down.

 

[blackcat]

My guess would be he entered that room intending to admit only to what USADA already knew. Why? Who knows. But he wouldn't be the first athlete who feels the need to salvage part of their career as if to convince the fans that they're not a fraud. Incomplete confessions aren't exactly uncommon (why hello there, O'Grady and Zabel!).

professional sportsmen (and women) are not anything if they are not agents of ego.

telling the truth to oneself is the greatest insurmountable ascent

 

[Digger]

The 'transparent' and 'clean' team and their mixed messages. JV said they supported Floyd...all I say is what in the name of God would they have said if they weren't 'supporting' him:

"He's reached the end of the road and I just find it disgusting," said Millar from his home training base in Girona, Spain. "He's a liar and a cheat and he has nothing left in cycling so he just wants to burn the house down."

After Landis' ban four years ago, Millar said he tried calling him to give advice on how to return to the sport. He never received a return call.

"If he had stood up and manned up four years ago, he'd be racing the Tour de France now," Millar said. "He'd have a different book out. He'd have not lost a penny. He'd be admired by young people. He would have a different life ahead of him. He'd be in a decent mental state. He'd be sober.

"And he'd be married."

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15175682


Johnny Weltz DS at Garmin on the claims of Landis and tyler

“The people who (made) these charges, they wanted to be Lance and didn’t manage it,” Weltz said. “So OK you can hit him in another way

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=txtourofqatararmstrong

Note: JV did admonish Weltz for these comments.


Chrstian Van De Velde

``It's unfortunate the past keeps getting dug up over and over again,'' Vande Velde said. ``It wipes away all the hard work we have been doing over the last years trying to clean up the sport and being transparent, when things that happened eight years ago keep being brought up.''


I asked Vande Velde how much credence anyone could give to Landis' allegations and confession to having been a big-time doper, given that he had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in denying he had used performance-enhancing drugs after the positive test at the 2006 Tour.


``You're not going to believe too much of it, that's for sure,'' Vande Velde said. ``It has been a long stream of lies. I'd like to say I was surprised, but nothing about Floyd surprises me any more.''

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com...ash-feels-pain-landis-causing-the-sport-.html

Wiggins, former Garmin rider when he made these comments:

think you have to question Landis’ credibility because he lied under oath before and the stories that you hear about him drinking and things like that and you know, [making] telephone calls to people I know, threatening them with things, you just think that the guy appears to not all be there. So when you see these kinds of claims in the press you have to question his credibility because it’s almost like it’s coming from a mad man, but at the same time maybe that’s all borne out of frustration and things.

“You just never know but you just look at the way his life has gone over the last five years and you think there’s one person who it would have been so easy to have just admitted it when it happened in 2006, come clean if he did do it and he would have been back racing in a professional team making pretty good money. It’s quite sad how his life has gone away, just dwindled away and now there’s all these claims and counter claims and it’s quite a sad story for him.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-calls-for-biological-passport-data-to-be-made-public


Honourable mention goes to Andrew Talansky who tweeted in June 2012 that there was no evidence against lance and that USADA should drop the investigation....he deleted it within minutes.

I find it very hard to reconcile these words above with a team which has sold itself on being transparent.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It wasn't that long ago that the Garmin website's bio for JV mentioned his ground breaking training techniques and record up Mt Ventoux.

 

[Granville57]

It wasn't that long ago that the Garmin website's bio for JV mentioned his ground breaking training techniques and record up Mt Ventoux.

That inexplicable entry must've been removed from the Garmin site very recently then. As far as I can tell, at the moment, there is ZERO information on that site regarding any of the DS, staff or trainers.

 

[sniper]

this attitude is what comes across as "yep we dope, but we are smart dopers, we do our own internal testing, we know the limits, we know how not to test positive, we play the shystem and that is what we do ****ers"...

You JV, come across as someone who thinks the sport was ok before EPO and you want it back at that level, doping wise, but it wasn't ok before epo.

not sure.
i think JV is fine with EPO too, as long as you microdose it.
brought him some fine GT results in 2009 and 2012.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That inexplicably entry must've been removed from the Garmin site very recently then. As far as I can tell, at the moment, there is ZERO information on that site regarding any of the DS, staff or trainers.

Yes I went to look at it not that long ago and the entire staff / back office info has been removed from the site.

Wayback last archived on 7th November, 2013: http://web.archive.org/web/20131107204950/http://www.slipstreamsports.com/garmin-slipstream-staff

 

[BYOP88]

It's childish really (like the quotation marks he started using yesterday after he'd been told not to use your real first name.)
All give aways, imo, in terms of his credibility, which to me is zero (at least when it comes to the larger doping questions).
Vaughters has been denigrating to non-believers from the very start, in here, on twitter,.
That's the complete opposite you would expect if he is the clean crusader he says he is.
Hypocricy levels right up there with Brailsford, Wiggo, and other enablers.
Dedicated his life to anti-doping? My ***.

When I saw that on his twitter bio, I did have a laugh. Unless he was so hardcore anti-dopoing that he took dope in order to spot those who were/are doping.

This makes me laugh too "aggravating people with no sense of humor." For someone who's said they're "thin-skinned" should that person try and wind up others?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, JV should not be allowed in anyway to be involved with cycling.

 

[sniper]

Hey JV, is it weird that Ryder and Dr William Pettis both live in Hawaii now? I mean, I know HI is probably a nice place to live....but does that worry you? Seem a little too close?

good ol Bill, still in the game.
here he is in 2003 curing Hincapie from what appears to have been some form of Badzilla.

US Postal Service rider George Hincapie is recovering from the health problems that have scuppered his early season, according to his management company Sotox Sports. Hincapie has been suffering from parasitic and respiratory infections and has been treated by a team of doctors and nutritional experts including a macrobiotic chef to prepare meals, a hematologist, a pathologist, and a cardiologist.

Sotox Sports medical Director William Pettis said, "George is experiencing a remarkable recovery following the diagnosis of a respiratory infection compounded by a co-existing parasitic infection. He currently is being aggressively treated using a balanced combination of methods from Eastern and Western medicine. His condition has dramatically improved, while undergoing moderate training, since the recent initiation of these treatments. I expect him to soon enjoy a full and rapid recovery." http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/apr03/apr30news

Bill probably stopped doping riders in '06 or '07. So all clear on Hawaii.

 

[sniper]

from Pettis' website.

Hormone & Blood Component Optimization (Oxygen Transport, Androgen, and Growth Hormone Regulation)

http://www.williampettis.com/

 

[Benotti69]

not sure.
i think JV is fine with EPO too, as long as you microdose it.
brought him some fine GT results in 2009 and 2012.

true, the microdosing seems to be cool.

 

[westerner]

Certainly seems like the Slipperystreamers have known for quite some time about the recuperative powers of the Hawaiian islands. And RH knew well before he joined JVs gang of reformers. We just have to trust in life long advocate JV that his riders would never never never think of crossing the line in the sand while off in the S Pacific. I doubt many (any) doping control officers visit Maui for work purposes and I wonder how many internal team control samples have been collected while his team riders are recuperating or building themselves back up to top form in the warm salty air. Interesting question I think?

 

[Digger]

http://www.veloveritas.co.uk/2012/12/01/jorg-jaksche-interview-2/

I've dedicated my life to professional cycling, anti-doping, and aggravating people with no sense of humor

Alberto’s situation has always been so complicated. He’s a great rider, and an incredible talent. But he is under contract to Astana, and the late payment issues, and the complexity of that situation was, and is, difficult.

I like Alberto, I think he’s a nice guy and an unbelievable talent, but for all the pieces of puzzle to come together to sign him, I mean: why do I want to get into a legal battle with…

http://blogs.bicycling.com/blogs/bo...-interview-evolution-at-garmin-not-revolution

 

[Digger]

Kohl was finishing way down and then all of a sudden, boom! That’s more indicative of a doped rider doing well in a clean environment, because they have no talent

Why couldn't he have had crazy adaptive physiology as some have put forth?

"Kohl: when had he ever done 3rd in the Tour – not ever, I mean not even close."

Wiggins...dum dee dum

OK, you can microdose a transfusion and what my guess is the amount of sleep you lose wondering if your room will be raided by French police at any given moment, or that somehow you’ll screw it up, that 80 hours of sleep you lose might offset the 2 percent oxygen gain.

 

[gooner]

Again with the anonymity thing. Yawn.

For the vasy majority of people here, names are irrelevant. If we say something we really shouldn't, we can still be prosecuted very easily no matter how "anonymous" we think we are. If Digger's real identity was revealed, that wouldn't change a thing about the validity, or lack thereof, of what he says. Why would you want anyone who's not a public figure to reveal their absolutely irrelevant and unimportant identities is beyond me.

We all play by the same rules with anonymity on here so that's fair enough. I don't think on twitter it's looked at from a validity point of view. I think if you go around throwing your weight, sometimes in a vitriol manner, you man up and put your name to it. It's very easy for people to say it doesn't matter but then they're not on the end of it. Digger has consistently did this in reference to JV like calling him a ####head. Kennaugh and Fran Millar have had unprovoked attacks.

It's the one thing I hate with modern social media, yes it's gives access to important people in walks of life but it's also used as an abuse of power where people use to build up their own self importance.

I said to JV and Neal Rogers the other day, ignore the likes of Digger and co on twitter who have no interest in tbe welfare of the sport. They are in it for the entertainment value and love the controversy that feeds their needs. I don't respect their opinion whatsoever and there's a few more on here I put in this category as well. Not one good thing do they have to say about the sport. The wake up and watch a race with the sole ambition of hoping to get a doping angle from it. You wouldn't hear a murmur on their part about a credible guy like Phil Gaimon performing in San Luis earlier in the year and Utah just this week. The same with Dan Martin who has shown a realistic career progress path with no doping link.

If I have ever feel the need to respond and disagree with JV on twitter, I put my name to it where I can be held to account on it.

 

[Benotti69]

...... You wouldn't hear a murmur on their part about a credible guy like Phil Gaimon performing in San Luis earlier in the year and Utah just this week.

Gaimon has a tattoo that says 'clean'.....means very little in reality.

The same with Dan Martin who has shown a realistic career progress path with no doping link.

................

no doping link.

He rides for a team full of known (ex)dopers owned by an ex doper......he is very well linked to doping.

 

[stutue]

And what, exactly, is the point of this thread, especially in the light of the past two months?