JV talks, sort of

[Ferminal]

Everyone in MTB doped, he had no choice.

 

[hrotha]

You guys are acting like casual fans from la la land who didn't even suspect Hesjedal ever doped. But you obviously know better.

Thing is, this doesn't change anything in regards to JV or Garmin, except in the field of PR management for the general public.

 

[D-Queued]

Wonder how JV will spin this.

Are we really supposed to believe that Hesjedal stopped doping in 200x and then he learned how to win clean at garmin at the tender age of 31? riiiight.

Now that this little secret is out, let me provide some insight into JV's actions and awareness.

I was well aware of Ryder's doping, and it was an open secret within the ranks in Canada. In fact, I was actually approached to start openly communicating this by the manager of a rival team.

This was well before Ryder rode for Phonak, but his exploits in the Dauphine on Phonak were laughable - when you knew what he was up to. Floyd's Tour nonsense provided the complete confirmation of what was going on within Phonak.

Fast forward to Garmin's interest in Ryder, before Ryder was signed, and the team's strong anti-doping stance.

With the help of a mutual friend, I contacted JV directly and advised him that it was a virtual certainty that Ryder had been a doper.

We had an open and frank discussion about the fact that it was well known within certain circles that Ryder was a doper.

To his credit, JV didn't dodge the issue for a moment.

I left that conversation with the strong belief that JV was true to his word.

He confirmed that he was "well aware of Ryder's past", and that they had discussed it. He also confirmed that Ryder had been provided with chapter and verse on the need to adhere to the team's policy.

My sense was that because they had both had an experience with Lance that JV's philosophy was likely to be successful with Ryder.

My guess is that if I spoke to JV about Ryder, I may not have been alone. Thus, he would also be well aware that if Ryder doped at Garmin and was caught, it would be a major embarrassment for him.

While I did parry a bit with JV when he did post on this thread, I am still convinced that he was telling the truth.

Whether Ryder ever resorted to old habits and was able to fool JV, Garmin's screens, and the UCI's testing (easiest of all), I cannot say.

Dave.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You guys are acting like casual fans from la la land who didn't even suspect Hesjedal ever doped. But you obviously know better.

Thing is, this doesn't change anything in regards to JV or Garmin, except in the field of PR management for the general public.

Wow - just thinking the exact same thing.

Nothing particularly surprising re Ryders past (except Ras taught them) or even what JV has stated or done before - for me the real tell will be how they address the issue and if anything more current falls out of it.

 

[thehog]

You guys are acting like casual fans from la la land who didn't even suspect Hesjedal ever doped. But you obviously know better.

Thing is, this doesn't change anything in regards to JV or Garmin, except in the field of PR management for the general public.

No one here is saying they are surprised that Ryder doped.

They are maknig light of a situation that "now clean" he was able to win the Giro when has has showed very little GT winning form in his life.

Good rider but not GT winner.

His form has dropped off since that win. Probably back to normal.

CVV and co when he won were all proclaiming the "new dawn", "new era" etc etc etc.

I think thats what grates is not that he doped in the 2000's. That's a given.

Its more - "where did 2012 come from" ?

 

[Alex76]

Now that this little secret is out, let me provide some insight into JV's actions and awareness.

I was well aware of Ryder's doping, and it was an open secret within the ranks in Canada. In fact, I was actually approached to start openly communicating this by the manager of a rival team.

This was well before Ryder rode for Phonak, but his exploits in the Dauphine on Phonak were laughable - when you knew what he was up to. Floyd's Tour nonsense provided the complete confirmation of what was going on within Phonak.

Fast forward to Garmin's interest in Ryder, before Ryder was signed, and the team's strong anti-doping stance.

With the help of a mutual friend, I contacted JV directly and advised him that it was a virtual certainty that Ryder had been a doper.

We had an open and frank discussion about the fact that it was well known within certain circles that Ryder was a doper.

To his credit, JV didn't dodge the issue for a moment.

I left that conversation with the strong belief that JV was true to his word.

He confirmed that he was "well aware of Ryder's past", and that they had discussed it. He also confirmed that Ryder had been provided with chapter and verse on the need to adhere to the team's policy.

My sense was that because they had both had an experience with Lance that JV's philosophy was likely to be successful with Ryder.

My guess is that if I spoke to JV about Ryder, I may not have been alone. Thus, he would also be well aware that if Ryder doped at Garmin and was caught, it would be a major embarrassment for him.

While I did parry a bit with JV when he did post on this thread, I am still convinced that he was telling the truth.

Whether Ryder ever resorted to old habits and was able to fool JV, Garmin's screens, and the UCI's testing (easiest of all), I cannot say.

Dave.

Dave - so what's the deal re the rumours circulating at the Giro this year about a previous GT winner having to explain his values re BP issues..... But unlike T-L his name was not released to the media...

 

[martinvickers]

Dave - so what's the deal re the rumours circulating at the Giro this year about a previous GT winner having to explain his values re BP issues..... But unlike T-L his name was not released to the media...

Thought that was a russian matter?...

 

[mewmewmew13]

Thanks for the post Dave.
nice to get some perspective from those involved

 

[Balabar]

Wow - just thinking the exact same thing.

Nothing particularly surprising re Ryders past (except Ras taught them) or even what JV has stated or done before - for me the real tell will be how they address the issue and if anything more current falls out of it.

This is my feeling too. I'm a big Hesjedal fan but under no illusions about his past. I assumed that his story was pretty similar to the other riders that JV signed to Slipstream at the start of the team. I also assumed that Ryder didn't provide testimony in the Armstrong case because he didn't have first hand knowledge of Lance's doping.

That being said, I really, really hope that he addresses these accusations openly and honestly. I will be very disappointed if he avoids the issue, denies it, or claims he only did it once. If he tries that sh*t, he's lost all credibility.

 

[Alex76]

Thought that was a russian matter?...

Not to my knowledge.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Cross-posting from the Ryders Blood thread

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/395629870358990848

Waiting on a few more sign offs on statement,but needless to say @ryder_hesjedal was 100% truthful,under oath,w CCES+USADA a v long time ago

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/395632070208544768

@debroy62 @ryder_hesjedal Deb,sport had a very different landscape+ethos 10 yrs ago. In his time with us he's been clean. Bet my life on it

 

[thehog]

Cross-posting from the Ryders Blood thread

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/395629870358990848

Waiting on a few more sign offs on statement,but needless to say @ryder_hesjedal was 100% truthful,under oath,w CCES+USADA a v long time ago

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/395632070208544768

@debroy62 @ryder_hesjedal Deb,sport had a very different landscape+ethos 10 yrs ago. In his time with us he's been clean. Bet my life on it

Translation:

"We have nothing to hide. We like our credibility"

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This is my feeling too. I'm a big Hesjedal fan but under no illusions about his past. I assumed that his story was pretty similar to the other riders that JV signed to Slipstream at the start of the team. I also assumed that Ryder didn't provide testimony in the Armstrong case because he didn't have first hand knowledge of Lance's doping.

That being said, I really, really hope that he addresses these accusations openly and honestly. I will be very disappointed if he avoids the issue, denies it, or claims he only did it once. If he tries that sh*t, he's lost all credibility.

Agree - and sadly, regarding your final paragraph that is what he has served:

Hesjedal admits to doping, says evidence was given to USADA

"Cycling is my life and has been ever since I can remember. I have loved and lived this sport but more than a decade ago, I chose the wrong path," Hesjedal said. "And even though those mistakes happened more than 10 years ago, and they were short-lived, it does not change the fact that I made them and I have lived with that and been sorry for it ever since.

 

[sniper]

This is my feeling too. I'm a big Hesjedal fan but under no illusions about his past. I assumed that his story was pretty similar to the other riders that JV signed to Slipstream at the start of the team. I also assumed that Ryder didn't provide testimony in the Armstrong case because he didn't have first hand knowledge of Lance's doping.

That being said, I really, really hope that he addresses these accusations openly and honestly. I will be very disappointed if he avoids the issue, denies it, or claims he only did it once. If he tries that sh*t, he's lost all credibility.

any illusions about his 2012 season?

 

[thehog]

Agree - and sadly, regarding your final paragraph that is what he has served:

Hesjedal admits to doping, says evidence was given to USADA

Good news! I'm glad he's sorry. And that he only admitted only after being backed into a corner.

So all good. Thanks JV!

I vomited a little bit in my mouth at this:

"The WADA Code has a statute of limitations of eight years. As such, even if these three athletes admitted to these allegations, this information in and of itself, would not result in anti-doping rule violations. We believe that the UCI and WADA should continue to work toward an agreement on an amnesty program that would relate historic cases of doping that are outside the statute of limitations. This type of amnesty could allow cycling to deal with historic cases while learning the scope of the cheating and the methods that were employed to avoid detection."

Hesjedal stated that he "stopped what I was doing many years before I joined Slipstream Sports".

 

[brilleaben]

Ryder just has a very broad definition of "shortlived". "Indefinite" could be the word he was searching for.

 

[Balabar]

Agree - and sadly, regarding your final paragraph that is what he has served:

Hesjedal admits to doping, says evidence was given to USADA

I'm not entirely disappointed with his statement. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that he'd spoken to the USADA and CCES a year ago (apparently CCES didn't tell Cycling Canada this).

He admitted he doped, didn't say it was only once, and gave as good an apology as he could. He didn't provide any details, but then none of the Garmin riders who confessed provided extensive details to the media--their USADA statements were released as part of the Armstrong case but they haven't really expanded on them since.

It would be nice to get a few more details, a little better timeline of when his doping started and when it stopped, etc., but that can come in time.

Does this mean that he doped during his Giro win? I don't know. It hasn't really changed his credibility that much. I suspected he doped earlier in his career before, now that's been confirmed.

I know I'm biased as a fan of his, but his Giro win still looks like one of the more credible grand tour wins of recent memory. I can only hope it is.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Good news! I'm glad he's sorry. And that he only admitted only after being backed into a corner.

So all good. Thanks JV!

I vomited a little bit in my mouth at this:

Would you quiet down the grinding of your axes, I'm trying to sleep.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Good news! I'm glad he's sorry. And that he only admitted only after being backed into a corner.

So all good. Thanks JV!

I vomited a little bit in my mouth at this:

Then you missed the key-word in the piece:

USADA confirmed to Cyclingnews that Hesjedal had been interviewed by them and CCES. “As has been publicly reported, we can confirm that USADA, along with the Canadian Center for Ethics in Sport (CCES), interviewed cyclist, Ryder Hesjedal, earlier this year as part of our ongoing investigation into the sport of cycling," CEO Travis Tygart said. "Athletes like him and others, who have voluntarily come in, taken accountability for their actions and have been fully truthful, are essential to securing a brighter future for the sport of cycling.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

So Hesjedal puts the spike in the arm, gets silver, doesn't like how he feels and stops the show again. Sure, no problem.

 

[sniper]

Then you missed the key-word in the piece:

indeed as hog says, backed into a corner, then talk. Dont see why 'voluntarily' is a keyword here. His admission today was voluntary as well.

 

[the sceptic]

Cmon Doc. There is a difference in talking to the USADA and confessing in public.

It would have been terrible PR for garmin if he tried to go omerta now. So the only move left is a heartbreaking confession.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Cmon Doc. There is a difference in talking to the USADA and confessing in public.

It would have been terrible PR for garmin if he tried to go omerta now. So the only move left is a heartbreaking confession.

Ha - ya, there is.
One is what he should do (talk to USADA) and the other is PR, which is exactly what he would have got accused of.

Amazing how its twisted.

 

[Samson777]

Then you missed the key-word in the piece:

Would be interesting to know, who else have done like Hesjedal and given a voluntary explanation, that we don't know about.

 

[Benotti69]

Would be interesting to know, who else have done like Hesjedal, that we don't know about.

Fish in a barrel, fish in a barrel......