JV talks, sort of

[hrotha]

When JV says this,



you just know the guy really conisdered this, but there are others out there to point the finger at Hesjedal, probably Bruyneel et al.....

Seems lying is an option always open at garmin.

Not that I believe Hesjedal is saying the truth, but your interpretation doesn't make sense. There's always a personal choice. That's all the quote says.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Denying everything and pretending he is another Armstrong was a choice? right.

Ryder isnt some sort of brave saint because he finally came clean about his past. He was backed into a corner.

Who is saying he is a "brave saint"?

But, he was not backed in to a corner. His doping appears to be outside of SOL so there was no need or requirement for the Canadian ADA or cycling authority to investigate. But even if they did he could have rightly declined.

But he choose to come in, or volunteered. It does not in any way excuse his doping, but at least when it came time to accept responsibility he did.

 

[D-Queued]

So, how many of the Canadian gang are now busted or have confessed? Four for four?

At least four cyclists that were on the same team, rode with one another, vouched for one another in an anti-doping action, and/or are part of the Rasmussen allegations.

1. Ryder confessed; implicated by Rasmussen

2. Michael Barry confessed; rode on same team as Ryder

3. Chris Sheppard tested positive for EPO and banned for two years; implicated by Rasmussen; rode on Jamis with McGrath

4. Roland Green banned for six months; vouched for Sheppard's cleanliness

5. Seamus McGrath banned from competition for high Hematocrit; implicated by Rasmussen; rode with Sheppard on Jamis and on Rocky Mountain

All have represented Canada in international competition, and (not including Barry who was road only) arguably dominating the MTB scene.

Oh, and just noticed that Shep has a link to Rasmussen's fan page on his Facebook account: https://www.facebook.com/chris.sheppard.5855.

Any bets on when that gets that link removed?

Dave.

 

[D-Queued]

Can you help us with the abbreviations?

Sorry.

CCES = Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport (i.e. Canada's ADA, or USADA equivalent)

CCA = Cycling Canada (i.e. USA Cycling equivalent)

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

Not that I believe Hesjedal is saying the truth, but your interpretation doesn't make sense. There's always a personal choice. That's all the quote says.

There was no choice. Rasmussen outed him. JV knows at this moment in the sport with all the Armstrong stuff, 1998 stuff, no one would believe Hesjedal if he lied about the Rasmussen story.

As it is no one believes him when he says it was for a short period. He rode for Bruyneel for a year then Rihs for another year when EPO was still the dope of choice.

 

[the sceptic]

Who is saying he is a "brave saint"?

But, he was not backed in to a corner. His doping appears to be outside of SOL so there was no need or requirement for the Canadian ADA or cycling authority to investigate. But even if they did he could have rightly declined.

But he choose to come in, or volunteered. It does not in any way excuse his doping, but at least when it came time to accept responsibility he did.

I believe he was backed into a corner, because if he tried to deny it now and stay silent it would look too much like another Armstrong, and no one would believe him anyway, so what choice did he really have?

Yes, credit to him for doing that. But he still chose to stay silent in public in the hopes that it would never get out.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I believe he was backed into a corner, because if he tried to deny it now and stay silent it would look too much like another Armstrong, and no one would believe him anyway, so what choice did he really have?

Yes, credit to him for doing that. But he still chose to stay silent in public in the hopes that it would never get out.

That is the distinction. Now.
He sat down with the authorities earlier this year.

As with Benottis point - that's is separate, when it came out (yesterday) he then had to either admit or deny. That is the normal way - but as he had already given his account then it was an easier decison.

 

[thehog]

That is the distinction. Now.
He sat down with the authorities earlier this year.

As with Benottis point - that's is separate, when it came out (yesterday) he then had to either admit or deny. That is the normal way - but as he had already given his account then it was an easier decison.

He didn't admit. Or deny. (Publicly)

He sent out a press release via his team then JV hit Twitter to smooth over the cracks.

What is that?

 

[sniper]

Who is saying he is a "brave saint"?

But, he was not backed in to a corner. His doping appears to be outside of SOL so there was no need or requirement for the Canadian ADA or cycling authority to investigate. But even if they did he could have rightly declined.

be it by usada or by rasmussen, what's the difference, he was backed in a corner before admitting.
hence headers like "CCES "disappointed" Hesjedal waited 10 years to disclose doping"

But he choose to come in, or volunteered. It does not in any way excuse his doping, but at least when it came time to accept responsibility he did.

will you stick to this assertion if it turns out he lied under oath?

 

[sniper]

Not that I believe Hesjedal is saying the truth, but your interpretation doesn't make sense. There's always a personal choice. That's all the quote says.

imo vaughters tweet doesn't make sense.
he suggests lying was an option, but then lying clearly was not an option in this case, as hesjedal had already confessed to usada.
(or i'm misunderstanding his tweet)

 

[Dr. Maserati]

He didn't admit. Or deny. (Publicly)

He sent out a press release via his team then JV hit Twitter to smooth over the cracks.

What is that?

What is your point?
Yesterday it came out in the public domain - so yesterday it had to be addressed publicly.

be it by usada or by rasmussen, what's the difference, he was backed in a corner before admitting.
hence headers like "CCES "disappointed" Hesjedal waited 10 years to disclose doping"

will you stick to this assertion if it turns out he lied under oath?

He was backed in to a corner because he doped.

Not really sure of your point re CCES - I just checked and none of the articles I have read say anything about them being "disappointed "Hesjedal waited 10 years to disclose doping" - if you can furnish me with the article I will then decide.


As for him lying under oath - I believe I have been quite clear on this, but the answer is "no". If what he has said under oath (not in the media) is false he deserves a sanction for not disclosing truthful information.

 

[Benotti69]

What is your point?
Yesterday it came out in the public domain - so yesterday it had to be addressed publicly.


He was backed in to a corner because he doped.

Not really sure of your point re CCES - I just checked and none of the articles I have read say anything about them being "disappointed "Hesjedal waited 10 years to disclose doping" - if you can furnish me with the article I will then decide.

"The CCES is disappointed that Mr. Hesjedal waited more than a decade to publicly disclose his past involvement in doping. His conduct has deprived many clean Canadian athletes from the opportunity to shine in the sport of cycling."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/canadian-anti-doping-confirms-no-violation-for-hesjedal

 

[Dr. Maserati]

"The CCES is disappointed that Mr. Hesjedal waited more than a decade to publicly disclose his past involvement in doping. His conduct has deprived many clean Canadian athletes from the opportunity to shine in the sport of cycling."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/canadian-anti-doping-confirms-no-violation-for-hesjedal

Thanks for that.
That is an odd statement. They should be disappointed that he doped.

It also contradicts the "backed in to a corner" assertion.

 

[Beech Mtn]

There was no choice. Rasmussen outed him. JV knows at this moment in the sport with all the Armstrong stuff, 1998 stuff, no one would believe Hesjedal if he lied about the Rasmussen story.

As it is no one believes him when he says it was for a short period. He rode for Bruyneel for a year then Rihs for another year when EPO was still the dope of choice.

Ryder was most definitely backed into a corner. Back last winter Chicken gave a press conference announcing that he had decided to come clean about everything and said he was naming names. It was known that Chicken talked to anti-doping authorities in Denmark, Holland, and the USA at the very least. With Ryder got wind of this, he had to be concerned about his name coming up. The smart move at that time would be to sit down with his understanding team manager and work out a strategy for a managed confession.

It's my opinion that this is likely what they did - watch the leaks from the Rasmussen investigation and decide when and where to confess to authorities, how to frame the story, etc.

Now the next question becomes, what about that secret pro rumor about the GT winner with the biopassport irregularities. Is anything going to come of that?

 

[thehog]

Ryder was most definitely backed into a corner. Back last winter Chicken gave a press conference announcing that he had decided to come clean about everything and said he was naming names. It was known that Chicken talked to anti-doping authorities in Denmark, Holland, and the USA at the very least. With Ryder got wind of this, he had to be concerned about his name coming up. The smart move at that time would be to sit down with his understanding team manager and work out a strategy for a managed confession.

It's my opinion that this is likely what they did - watch the leaks from the Rasmussen investigation and decide when and where to confess to authorities, how to frame the story, etc.

Now the next question becomes, what about that secret pro rumor about the GT winner with the biopassport irregularities. Is anything going to come of that?

The ghost writer or Chicken's book also contacted Ryder the hider so he well and truely knew what was to come.

 

[Benotti69]

Ryder was most definitely backed into a corner. Back last winter Chicken gave a press conference announcing that he had decided to come clean about everything and said he was naming names. It was known that Chicken talked to anti-doping authorities in Denmark, Holland, and the USA at the very least. With Ryder got wind of this, he had to be concerned about his name coming up. The smart move at that time would be to sit down with his understanding team manager and work out a strategy for a managed confession.

It's my opinion that this is likely what they did - watch the leaks from the Rasmussen investigation and decide when and where to confess to authorities, how to frame the story, etc.

Now the next question becomes, what about that secret pro rumor about the GT winner with the biopassport irregularities. Is anything going to come of that?

Hesjedal backed himself into a corner by doping. Look at Stuey O'Grady, got caught 15 years after '98, but i have no doubts he never stopped and PEDed up for his last TdF.

Yes, when Rasmussen opened his gob Hesjedal was caught, but it shows that JV only plays the game to suit his needs

I dont believe Hesjedal didn't dope at Discovery, Phonak or Garmin.

 

[Digger]

Hesjedal backed himself into a corner by doping. Look at Stuey O'Grady, got caught 15 years after '98, but i have no doubts he never stopped and PEDed up for his last TdF.

Yes, when Rasmussen opened his gob Hesjedal was caught, but it shows that JV only plays the game to suit his needs

I dont believe Hesjedal didn't dope at Discovery, Phonak or Garmin.

He doped after 2003.

 

[the sceptic]

He doped after 2003.

What do you think about his giro win?

I think its very unlikely that JV is running a doping program at Garmin. He would have to be an even bigger sociopath than Armstrong then.

I suppose its possible he was doping behind the teams back though. But isnt that pretty difficult?

 

[Benotti69]

What do you think about his giro win?

I think its very unlikely that JV is running a doping program at Garmin. He would have to be an even bigger sociopath than Armstrong then.

I suppose its possible he was doping behind the teams back though. But isnt that pretty difficult?

Why is it unlikely that JV is running a program? Better he ran the program with his docs and sports scientists to avoid positives.

 

[sniper]

What do you think about his giro win?

I think its very unlikely that JV is running a doping program at Garmin. He would have to be an even bigger sociopath than Armstrong then.

I suppose its possible he was doping behind the teams back though. But isnt that pretty difficult?

I don't think the question of Ryder doping at Garmin is dependent on whether JV runs a doping program.
Doesn't Ryder train on Hawaii most of the time?
JV probably wouldn't know what Ryder is up to.
The best (or evilest) JV can do is find good doctors who make sure his riders stay fit and healthy and fly below the radar.
It would seem guys like San Millán and Gonzalez Haro were/are well-equipped for such tasks (which of course doesn't prove doping took place).

 

[pastronef]

The ghost writer or Chicken's book also contacted Ryder the hider so he well and truely knew what was to come.

can you give us some more details about this news? thanks

 

[Netserk]

Well I do think that Garmin being involved in their riders' doping is a possibility, however I think that's far from the most likely scenario.

 

[thehog]

I don't think the question of Ryder doping at Garmin is dependent on whether JV runs a doping program.
Doesn't Ryder train on Hawaii most of the time?
JV probably wouldn't know what Ryder is up to.
The best (or evilest) JV can do is find good doctors who make sure his riders stay fit and healthy and fly below the radar.
It would seem guys like San Millán and Gonzalez Haro were/are well-equipped for such tasks (which of course doesn't prove doping took place).

Garmin's bullsh1t internal testing program no longer exists.

They used to print that stuff to the web.

“We’re doing what we can to save our sport, which includes making all of our test results available to the public,” Vaughters said.

No more.

 

[Netserk]

can you give us some more details about this news? thanks

It's mentioned in most of the Danish articles (in the bottom) that the writer had tried to reach for a comment from those named. I'll try to find one with Hesjedal.

edit: http://politiken.dk/sport/cykling/ECE2117645/michael-rasmussen-jeg-laerte-giro-vinder-at-dope-sig/ (Danish)

Klaus Wivel, medforfatter til ’Gul feber’, har kontaktet de canadiske cykelryttere.

Hverken Chris Sheppard eller Seamus McGrath har ønsket at give en kommentar til oplysningerne, mens Ryder Hesjedal slet ikke har svaret på henvendelsen.

 

[sniper]

Well I do think that Garmin being involved in their riders' doping is a possibility, however I think that's far from the most likely scenario.

What do you think (gutfeeling) is the primary task of Garmin's docs in case they spot irregularities in rider X's blood profile or power data?
would it be to tell rider X to stop doping or would it be to help rider X fly below the radar?