JV talks, sort of

[thehog]

As a DS..?

Do you want to move those goal posts any further?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

No I didn't. My post was a response to zigmeister's 2nd paragraph.

He asked if anyone had been popped at Garmin recently. You then stated Riis has not anyone popped since 2006 obviously as a comparison (Otherwise it is a pretty random statement) . How is that not comparing JV and Riss or am I missing something?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Do you want to move those goal posts any further?

You compared Riis to JV so I am also wondering if they have anything else in common as DS.

As usual you are not even in the same ballpark.

 

[sniper]

There were a whole lot of rumours about Hushovd at, the time he left Garmin-Cervelo (as it was then IIRC) that JV found anomalies through internal testing and told him he wouldn't be renewed.

Can anybody confirm this?
I can't remember JV ever hinting at anything of this kind.
If this happened, why wouldn't he have hinted at it?
He's been asked about (the nature of) the internal testing plenty of times.

 

[thehog]

As usual you are not even in the same ballpark.

No. I'm well in the ballpark.

Neither Riis or Vaughters are DS and haven't been so for a very long time.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Neither Riis or Vaughters are DS and haven't been so for a very long time.

Has JV ever been involved in doping since he has been a DS or a Manager?

 

[JV1973]

No. I'm well in the ballpark.

Neither Riis or Vaughters are DS and haven't been so for a very long time.

While that conversation is accurate, it hardly constituted any sort of encouragement. Matt asked me how Lance got away with it. I told him. Pretty simple. If you asked me in 2002, I would have told you too. Unless you worked as a journalist.

 

[Benotti69]

While that conversation is accurate, it hardly constituted any sort of encouragement. Matt asked me how Lance got away with it. I told him. Pretty simple. If you asked me in 2002, I would have told you too. Unless you worked as a journalist.

What is stoppig riders getting away with now?

Kohl called the Biopassport a help to riders doping.

 

[thehog]

While that conversation is accurate, it hardly constituted any sort of encouragement. Matt asked me how Lance got away with it. I told him. Pretty simple. If you asked me in 2002, I would have told you too. Unless you worked as a journalist.

Thanks JV. No wonder Sky bounce between racing and Tiede so often. Got to conceal the inhalation of marginal gains

Besides If I asked you in 2002 you might have said the machines weren't calibrated correctly just teasing.

Thanks for posting. How's the internal testing at Garmin coming along?

Serious question; would you mess with Greg Henderson? Or can Froome beat him in a arm wrestle?

 

[Netserk]

While that conversation is accurate, it hardly constituted any sort of encouragement. Matt asked me how Lance got away with it. I told him. Pretty simple. If you asked me in 2002, I would have told you too. Unless you worked as a journalist.

Hi JV, how likely do you think it is that riders on your team behave similar to what you did on C.A.? (Encouraged not to dope and with good intentions, but doped nonetheless, if I got that right?)

 

[Benotti69]

Hi JV, how likely do you think it is that riders on your team behave similar to what you did on C.A.? (Encouraged not to dope and with good intentions, but doped nonetheless, if I got that right?)

As i understood it the CA DS said the team would not organise the doping and left it up to individuals on the team.

 

[JV1973]

great posts digger and hitch

Yes, but many of things Digger says are lies. Yet, he is allowed this luxury. Interesting double standard.

Let's go through some examples:

Claims Thomas Dekker, hired due to a sponsorship deal. Ok... What sponsorship deal? Outright lie, yet speaks of this as truth and is believed.

Claims Magnus Backstedt retired due to irregular tests. Really? Then why hurriedly delete all the tweets claiming that when confronted? This one is so far from the truth. Yet, it's totally fine to smear the guy, then run away and hide when it gets a bit hot.

Just a few examples of throwing everything he has, no matter if it's true or not to prove his point. Win at all costs, eh Digger?


Hypocrisy. Embodied: Digger.

Yet, there are no cries for his head.


That's my problem with this forum, is you guys use win at all cost tactics to accuse people of using win at all costs methods.

You want to actually do something about doping? Not just ***** about it?

Go volunteer to be an athlete chaperone at an event. Go volunteer your professional services (legal etc) to various ADAs around the world. There are lots of ways to contribute. But *****ing about me isn't going to get you much beyond a feeling of power, because: Yes, I sometimes respond. And Yes, I take this stuff personally and am very hurt by it. That's not crying, I'm just stating a fact. I'm thin skinned. Just the way I am.

What kills me is that I still engage and I still get hurt. And you guys think the reason is sponsorship. Man... If you knew how far off that was, you'd understand my exasperated tone a little better.

JV.

 

[Benotti69]

Hey JV how about answering Shane Stokes question?

 

[JV1973]

Hi JV, how likely do you think it is that riders on your team behave similar to what you did on C.A.? (Encouraged not to dope and with good intentions, but doped nonetheless, if I got that right?)

I think it's extremely unlikely. And I think the test if time will prove that.

In the interim, do I have anything that says this isn't possible? Nope.

Just faith and years of looking blood values. Both of which are continuously debated.

 

[JV1973]

Hey JV how about answering Shane Stokes question?

Sure. Which one? Please restate.

 

[Benotti69]

I don't really see how keeping Hesjedals doping a secret is any different to any of the other dopers on his team. Technically he kept all their histories a secret, or in the case of CVV, DZ and Tom D until they were about to be revealed anyways.

From the rise of Slipstream to the top level in 08, JV was clear on the fact that there would be dopers on his team, but that they would also be riding clean at his team. Regadless of whether you believe the second part, I think the first part covers Hesjedals and all other dopers at Garmin and is not some big secret that JV went out of his way to keep.

Like Lance or many riders from the 00s, chances were any rider who rode for Postal in the 00s had a high risk of being a doper so not sure what the big secret was. Was I shocked when it was revealed Ryder was a doper, ahh no.

As for promoting him as a clean GT winner, well again depending on what you want to believe that might be true as previous doping does not preclude him from being clean in 2012. Eric Caritoux was a clean GT winner according to Willy Voet but was not a clean rider. Thus the statement about Ryder being a clean GT winner may be accurate(again depends on what you believe).

On his hypocrisy on ascent times, not totally sure what you are referring to. Again maybe I see this differently but when JV has talked about ascent times, to me, it has been more in the general average ascent times than individual riders. That doesn't mean there will be no outliers like Froome.

Reading that twitter exchange with Stokes, he asked JV about the Madone climb and JV brought up the 20 fastest times on average being slower(Where he got this info, I don't know). Thus the same individual rider v general average speed divergence. People want JV to call out individual riders when I think it is clear he is not going to do so and has never done so. Clearly peope don't agree with that stance but why keep challening him on it when you already know what the response will be.

As for punishment and sacrifice, I think that may also have differing views. Perhaps JV see's his work with juniors and growing a team from the bottom level of cycling as his payback for his sins. Clearly many don't see it that way and think that JV jumped off his bike, set up a team and boom was back in big time cycling.

I happened to be going through an old thread recently and one of the few pro riders on here spoke of his respect for JV for setting up a junior team and driving from Colordao to Montana and all over with them. The same guy is no lover of JV but he did have respect for the way JV started with a junior team. Maybe his opinion has changed since but he rode with quite a few former JV riders so had some of the inside scoop on Garmin.

I have heards things about JV that would definitely suggest he can be a total ******bag but then again reading through threads in the clinic would give the same impression of just about all posters who post in the clinic(myself included).

JV, what about addressing this post.^^^^

Picking Digger out and then saying your thin skinned is BS. Manipulating the message as usual.

Thin skinned people dont survive in sport at the highest level.

 

[JV1973]

JV, what about addressing this post.^^^^

Picking Digger out and then saying your thin skinned is BS. Manipulating the message as usual.

Thin skinned people dont survive in sport at the highest level.

Digger and I have a long history and a friend in common.
(Floyd... Who refuses to wake up at 5am to go fishing with me)

And, you're wrong, I am thin skinned. I don't love that reality about myself.

 

[Benotti69]

Sure. Which one? Please restate.

More obfuscation! Like he asked you thousands on twitter.....and you wonder why some people dont believe you!

 

[Benotti69]

Come on JV address Hitch's post.

 

[JV1973]

More obfuscation! Like he asked you thousands on twitter.....and you wonder why some people dont believe you!

Dude. He's asked me a lot of questions. Don't get upset. Just restate which one and I'll answer.

 

[thrawn]

More obfuscation! Like he asked you thousands on twitter.....and you wonder why some people dont believe you!

No need to be difficult. Just ask the question.

 

[Netserk]

If I was JV, I'd put B69 on ignore. No offensive meant to you B69.

 

[JV1973]

Come on JV address Hitch's post.

You mean pmcg's post? The one you put up?

Yeah. Seems pretty accurate.

Ok - listen, no hiding, etc etcetera... But I have class today, so I need to stop posting. Happy to answer you SS question, just refer me to which one. He had a few.

 

[Benotti69]

Why have stopped selling the cycling is cleanER message?

Is it because it is obvious to a blind man that the culture of doping is part of the fabric of the sport and it would a take a monumental effort to change that, which has not happened!


Look at all those dopers at the pointy end of things, Contador, Valverde, Cancellara, Scarponi, Hesjedal............then look at the teams like OPQS with Dr Ibauguren, BMC and Max Testa, Sky and Leinders and never mind what the likes of Astana, Cannondale, Katusha and others are up to.....

The sport is still a cesspit. EPO might not be in use at the same level as the 90s but this peloton is charging!

 

[Tinman]

JV in your view from the season results to date is the peloton still getting cleaner or has it regressed from say 12 months ago? How is it trending?