JV talks, sort of

[cineteq]

The point being, the weight of these sanctions was retroactive. Levi lost more than 7 years of results, most of the others two or more.

Do they get to keep the money they earned during those years?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Still lost one Tour, mised another and also lost a Giro, for a few picograms of clenbuterol. These guys took EPO for years. And yes, USADA does need to give reduced bans for talking, but no more than a year. Especially since these guys didn't just confess out of the blue, if they didn't have their backs against the wall they would've kept their mouths shut.

Contador had his back up against the wall too - still denying. Confession vs denial. That's the end of it right there for me. And your boy got 6 months, after getting popped. Quantity is irrelevant. And who's to say he didn't do it for years, like these guys did, but just never tested positive. They are more sophisticated now, and Alberto earns enough to do it properly.

 

[hrotha]

One thing that stands out:

It was only when Vaughters was called by federal investigators that he provided the full story of what he knew about doping on that team.

And similar bits about Garmin riders.

I thought they were required to cooperate and tell the whole story to WADA long before the investigation?

 

[Sarcastic Wet Trout]

So Vandevelde was doping way back in 2001, yet was only stripped of his results from from June 4th 2004 to April 31st 2006? Why? Why only from 2004 and why only to early 2006?

Cuz 8 years is the Statute of Limitations under WADA is the obvious answer.

Also, the evidence against VdV (his affidavit) says he stopped using PEDs in April 2006. His results were stripped for the period that he admits using PEDs.

Or are you upset since April only has 30 days?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

One thing that stands out:

And similar bits about Garmin riders.

I thought they were required to cooperate and tell the whole story to WADA long before the investigation?

Pretty sure JV told his riders (and I guess did so himself) to only talk about what they had done personally, but no more. This is also the advice David Millar gave Floyd, from memory.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

One thing that stands out:

And similar bits about Garmin riders.

I thought they were required to cooperate and tell the whole story to WADA long before the investigation?

Firstly - where was that quote pulled from?

To the blue - no, that wasnt a requirement. JV appears to have spoken to WADA long ago, but they dont investigate per se -so any info would have been about methods and detection.

 

[Tinman]

Pretty sure JV told his riders (and I guess did so himself) to only talk about what they had done personally, but no more.

And a wise move that is. Fat lady hasn't sung yet. Lot of water to pass under the bridge. Need to be patient when playing Poker.

As much as it is easy to be critical of JV for not speaking out in 1998, and to laud others who did speak out early, at huge personal cost, everyone has different personal motivations at the time. Yes for me the Bassons, the Betsy's etc are the real heroes. JV has been clever navigating the system, and continues to be. He'd make a great senior mgmt career outside cycling one day. Although if he does truly have a moral backbone, and I would give him the benefit of the doubt for now, cycling administration may be much better off with him in it.

 

[hrotha]

Firstly - where was that quote pulled from?

To the blue - no, that wasnt a requirement. JV appears to have spoken to WADA long ago, but they dont investigate per se -so any info would have been about methods and detection.

It comes from the same stuff we've all been reading today.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It comes from the same stuff we've all been reading today.

Seriously?

Its ok, I found it myself towards the end of the reasoned decision.
There are going to be plenty of articles and comments over the next few days - and not everyone can or will get to read it all.

 

[hrotha]

Seriously?

Its ok, I found it myself towards the end of the reasoned decision.
There are going to be plenty of articles and comments over the next few days - and not everyone can or will get to read it all.

Understandable. I'm still catching up myself.

I agree with Tyler's Twin that JV's affidavit doesn't sound like the story he told us about finally giving in and doping one last time at CA before calling it quits.

 

[JV1973]

Understandable. I'm still catching up myself.

I agree with Tyler's Twin that JV's affidavit doesn't sound like the story he told us about finally giving in and doping one last time at CA before calling it quits.

Not sure what inconsistencies you're seeing? I don't see any. I mean, my interviews were never as detailed as the affidavit, but that's normal.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Understandable. I'm still catching up myself.

I agree with Tyler's Twin that JV's affidavit doesn't sound like the story he told us about finally giving in and doping one last time at CA before calling it quits.

Well, TylersTwin post doesnt say that:
I have read pages 16 & 17 of JVs affidavit

Reading pages 16 and 17 of the JV-affidavit. Doesn't sound like he was clean at CA.

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/JV+Vaughters+Jonathan+Affidavit.pdf

I have read pages 16 & 17 pf Jvs affidavit and it sounds consistent to what he said to Bicycling and also here on this forum.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Not sure what inconsistencies you're seeing? I don't see any. I mean, my interviews were never as detailed as the affidavit, but that's normal.

May I ask your thoughts on today?

 

[whittashau]

Thanks JV for all your contributions.

And people need to get real. These sanctions are of course very much reduced to the fact that they're speaking out about it. They're not gaining anything from speaking out. It's the same in every justice system. Deals are done in order to get people to give evidence. We should be pleased that some justice has been served.

 

[JV1973]

Well, TylersTwin post doesnt say that:
I have read pages 16 & 17 of JVs affidavit
I have read pages 16 & 17 pf Jvs affidavit and it sounds consistent to what he said to Bicycling and also here on this forum.

Ahhh... Yeah, last time I doped was 2002. But yeah, there were a few instances that I doped in between USPS and the end of my career. 2001, when I won a flat TT in the Dauphine beating David Millar....should have won the whole race, but I freaked out about maybe testing positive and blew up in the alps due to lack of sleep!!! and being a nervous wreck!

Doping doesn't always pay off!

 

[hrotha]

Not sure what inconsistencies you're seeing? I don't see any. I mean, my interviews were never as detailed as the affidavit, but that's normal.

Well, I thought the story went you talked to Legeay before signing your contract and warned him that you wouldn't be able to perform at the same level as at US Postal, because you would be doing it clean. I also thought you only relapsed into doping during your last few months at CA, when you felt pressured into delivering the results the team needed, before you decided you had had enough and walked out of your contract.

But what you say in the affidavit is that you cotinued to use the leftover EPO stock you had from your US Postal days. Furthermore, Michael Barry claims he cleaned out the apartment he inherited from you for two consecutive years, disposing of syringes and ampules (from the 2001 season) and empty EPO vials, used testosterone patches in CA bags and used syringes (from the 2002 season).

 

[JV1973]

Well, I thought the story went you talked to Legeay before signing your contract and warned him that you wouldn't be able to perform at the same level as at US Postal, because you would be doing it clean. I also thought you only relapsed into doping during your last few months at CA, when you felt pressured into delivering the results the team needed, before you decided you had had enough and walked out of your contract.

But what you say in the affidavit is that you cotinued to use the leftover EPO stock you had from your US Postal days. Furthermore, Michael Barry claims he cleaned out the apartment he inherited from you for two consecutive years, disposing of syringes and ampules (from the 2001 season) and empty EPO vials, used testosterone patches in CA bags and used syringes (from the 2002 season).

Yes, that's all correct. Legeay did say that and I had some great results with him, clean, but there were other times when I was not clean. Hence my story above, but that doesn't mean i didn't totally freak myself out doing that and quit for the rest of 2001.

Your only reading it as inconsistent as I never went into super detail publicly. And don't really intend to, as there's nothing I can do about it. Well...except make sure it doesn't happen in my team.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

So: no to the cortisone injection for the swollen shut eye due to bee sting, but yes to EPO in the final few months of the contract before quitting.

 

[JV1973]

Well, I thought the story went you talked to Legeay before signing your contract and warned him that you wouldn't be able to perform at the same level as at US Postal, because you would be doing it clean. I also thought you only relapsed into doping during your last few months at CA, when you felt pressured into delivering the results the team needed, before you decided you had had enough and walked out of your contract.

But what you say in the affidavit is that you cotinued to use the leftover EPO stock you had from your US Postal days. Furthermore, Michael Barry claims he cleaned out the apartment he inherited from you for two consecutive years, disposing of syringes and ampules (from the 2001 season) and empty EPO vials, used testosterone patches in CA bags and used syringes (from the 2002 season).

there's actually detail that isn't even in the affidavit, that i told usada... there's just only so much stuff that is relevant.

 

[TubularBills]

Thanks to Jonathan Vaughters,

Without your encouragement. Today, wouldn't be today.

Believe and insist.

Thank you,

TB

 

[Dear Wiggo]

This sure seems to imply you weren't doping at CA and would have to either start, or quit.

Here was my chat with him yesterday, I started by asking if the reason he walked was because he was "cursed with a conscience"...

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters

@JMBeaushrimp Close.. I had immense respect for Roger Legeay. Was a bit tired of disappointing him. 2 ways to stop disappointing him

I can't find the tweet now, I think it's overloaded.

Is it possible you won't supply the detail because it would be too difficult to keep your story straight?

Like all the team doctors agreeing that the Giro values all tested high at the start of the Giro in 2012?

 

[JV1973]

So: no to the cortisone injection for the swollen shut eye due to bee sting, but yes to EPO in the final few months of the contract before quitting.

Hold up...I had a full year left on my contract. So, I was under no pressure, beyond the team needed points.

second thing: Legaey said no to the cortisone shot. I said yes. He shut me down and told me it was lying. He was right, but I was ****ed with him at the time.

You need to go back and read that story.

 

[JV1973]

This sure seems to imply you weren't doping at CA and would have to either start, or quit.



I can't find the tweet now, I think it's overloaded.

Is it possible you won't supply the detail because it would be too difficult to keep your story straight?

Like all the team doctors agreeing that the Giro values all tested high at the start of the Giro in 2012?

No... I'll happily tell the whole story. It's just not relevant.

On CA, Legeay was very clear, not his fault, but I had leftovers from USPS, and occasionally I relapsed into using. Would you like races? 2001 Dauphine...2000 Dauphine...2002 Tour de France.

What exactly would you like to know?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This sure seems to imply you weren't doping at CA and would have to either start, or quit.



I can't find the tweet now, I think it's overloaded.

Is it possible you won't supply the detail because it would be too difficult to keep your story straight?

Like all the team doctors agreeing that the Giro values all tested high at the start of the Giro in 2012?

What about STOP or quit?
You;re grasping when you use a tweet.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Hold up...I had a full year left on my contract. So, I was under no pressure, beyond the team needed points.

second thing: Legaey said no to the cortisone shot. I said yes. He shut me down and told me it was lying. He was right, but I was ****ed with him at the time.

You need to go back and read that story.

So you wanted to do cortisone - to help your eye and Legeay said no. I apologise, got the back and forth on that one wrong.

But you were doping at CA, knowing legreay was dead against it, even when you were injured. So the tweet saying you were tired of disappointing him? Did he know you were doping?