JV talks, sort of

[Moose McKnuckles]

It's the ultimate strawman - JV is pretty honest and open to most q's, and anyone with a brain in their head knows there are some things he cannot say in public. So they ask him about SKy, and Pat, etc and when he does not answer howl that he does not slam Sky's doping policy - ps did you know Sky have this new genetic drug, I read it here. Must be true, right?

Doc, but that is the issue. The fact that he cannot say these things in public is exactly the point. If cycling were, in fact, cleaner, this would not be an issue. A DS could speak freely. But we know it's not the case.

I don't blame the guy for being quiet, that's how the business works. But that doesn't mean that cycling fans are going to accept the status quo.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Not that I've heard. He's obsessed with beating them.

Well tell him he has a lot of fans, myself included. I thought he rode brilliantly at Paris Nice. Chapeau.

 

[JV1973]

Doc, but that is the issue. The fact that he cannot say these things in public is exactly the point. If cycling were, in fact, cleaner, this would not be an issue. A DS could speak freely. But we know it's not the case.

I don't blame the guy for being quiet, that's how the business works. But that doesn't mean that cycling fans are going to accept the status quo.

Dude, i can say whatever I want, and have, on this damn forum. Don't gimme that crap.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Just hire a swimming coach. And no more wind tunnels. Froomebot doesn't do that stuff.

Also, remember WARM UP, WARM DOWN.

Pity you didn't know this stuff when you had Wiggins on your team, or he would have won the Tour back then.

Garmin does that already for years, with ice packs and stuff. They just do not moan about it.

And, agree with Franklin, let us be civilized.

 

[JV1973]

Doc, but that is the issue. The fact that he cannot say these things in public is exactly the point. If cycling were, in fact, cleaner, this would not be an issue. A DS could speak freely. But we know it's not the case.

I don't blame the guy for being quiet, that's how the business works. But that doesn't mean that cycling fans are going to accept the status quo.

Btw - i'm not a DS. I'm a grad school student. and I manage slipstream sports, but I actually won't ds any races.

 

[Franklin]

Actually, this point...

Is a very good point.

Jonathan, let's just skip Sky as this is not fair to you (you can't answer as it's not your team)... My question:

There are still doctors in cycling who are known to have been assisting in doping. A certain doctor who was involved with one of your riders, David Millar, is still involved with a team. He's a relatively lesser known name, so he can continue without anyone inquiring about his status.

Cycling won't improve until these people are removed from the sport. They have been part of the system for so long. How do you vision this to be solved? All the teams agreeing? UCI/IOC/WADA legislation? Just the indivdual team's responsibility?

 

[sniper]

Less hostility towards someone who is actually willing to put up with this angry mob would be nice.

to be sure, it was JV who introduced the habit of insulting other posters.
his recent posts have been incredibly mild in comparison to what's gone down in other threads (wisely closed by the mods). he's a fast learner.

anyway, I'm amazed it doesn't annoy you. We've heard the clean cycling story after Festina, after Puerto. For JV to tell us we should enjoy it now (whilst Sky are doing a Postal on us), that's exactly the type of arrogance we've been served too often from the guys who run this circus.

 

[Benotti69]

Excellent, another Sky thread. We are lucky

Just to remind everyone, JV runs a different team

FYI

Man, your Sky detector reallly works great. Since JV thinks they pay big, they can easily afford guys to post on forums......

JV has a connection to Sky in that he had Wiggins when Wiggins finished 3rd in 2009 TdF out of nowhere. Gruppetto to Podium.

 

[Franklin]

to be sure, it was JV who introduced the habit of insulting other posters.
his recent posts have been incredibly mild in comparison to what's gone down in other threads (wisely closed by the mods). he's a fast learner.

Still no reason not to show some decency. If JV decides to be uncivil does not mean I should be.

anyway, I'm amazed it doesn't annoy you. We've heard the clean cycling story after Festina, after Puerto. For JV to tell us we should enjoy it now (whilst Sky are doing a Postal on us), that's exactly the type of arrogance we've been served too often from the guys who run this circus.

It does... and it doesn't. There certainly is less extreme blood doping. I can't fault JV for stating things that are based on pretty strong grounds.

Now the "New cycling" is annoying as the structures of cycling have not changed at all and this is exactly which I personally am very curious about. How does an insider like JV envision this? does he want it to change? If so how? If not, why not?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Man, your Sky detector reallly works great. Since JV thinks they pay big, they can easily afford guys to post on forums......

JV has a connection to Sky in that he had Wiggins when Wiggins finished 3rd in 2009 TdF out of nowhere. Gruppetto to Podium.

If Sky paid me money to post here, I'd gratefully take it, believe me. But it's a bit daft to try to say anyone that doesn't agree with the clinic narrative on Sky's doping is on their pay.

 

[thehog]

If Sky paid me money to post here, I'd gratefully take it, believe me. But it's a bit daft to try to say anyone that doesn't agree with the clinic narrative on Sky's doping is on their pay.

Skybot454347a

 

[blackcat]

yeah, I'll be happily paid to be on skys socket puppy roster, I luv posting on the doping hijinx and delusions. i do it for free

 

[sniper]

Still no reason not to show some decency. If JV decides to be uncivil does not mean I should be.

agreed, but if it referred to me, the only thing i said was "BS", and I don't know any other word for that

 

[blackcat]

to be sure, it was JV who introduced the habit of insulting other posters.
his recent posts have been incredibly mild in comparison to what's gone down in other threads (wisely closed by the mods). he's a fast learner.

anyway, I'm amazed it doesn't annoy you. We've heard the clean cycling story after Festina, after Puerto. For JV to tell us we should enjoy it now (whilst Sky are doing a Postal on us), that's exactly the type of arrogance we've been served too often from the guys who run this circus.

they were the Clinic 12, they were Legion, they were not Anonymous nor sockpuppets

 

[horsinabout]

Dude, i can say whatever I want, and have, on this damn forum. Don't gimme that crap.

Dame forum, don't gimmi that crap...It's all starting to fall apart. The poster over on the other thread thinks the forum is like a lunatic asylum.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Skybot454347a

Reporting for duty. Just waiting for Brailsford to download the latest dissemination

*click

There it is

Just be worried at some point he may send back in time to take out your pa before he gets to your ma

 

[Franklin]

agreed, but if it referred to me, the only thing i said was "BS", and I don't know any other word for that

Rest assured, it was in general, not towards you

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Dude, i can say whatever I want, and have, on this damn forum. Don't gimme that crap.

Sure, and so can anyone else.

If I were managing a team and saw my clean riders getting worked over by a bunch of Skyborgs, I'd be livid.

Maybe I'm assuming certain things. Look, for the last 20 or so years, cycling fans have been submitted to a bunch of garbage. Don't get all snippy because people look at what they see with more than just a pinch of skepticism.

 

[Mr.38%]

Just wanted to say I love the last 15 pages or so of discussion. Thanks JV, all (except for one or two notorious *******s).

 

[sniper]

If I were managing a team and saw my clean riders getting worked over by a bunch of Skyborgs, I'd be livid.

pretty much this.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Sure, and so can anyone else.

If I were managing a team and saw my clean riders getting worked over by a bunch of Skyborgs, I'd be livid.

Maybe I'm assuming certain things. Look, for the last 20 or so years, cycling fans have been submitted to a bunch of garbage. Don't get all snippy because people look at what they see with more than just a pinch of skepticism.

But he's not livid because he doesn't think Sky are cheating, and while you have been 'submitted to a bunch of garbage' (indeed, JV did some of the garbage chucking) perhaps he has a greater insight to what is going in the modern peloton, even though it isn't necessarily what you want to hear.

 

[blackcat]

If I were managing a team and saw my clean riders getting worked over by a bunch of Skyborgs, I'd be livid.

Maybe I'm assuming certain things. Look, for the last 20 or so years, cycling fans have been submitted to a bunch of garbage. Don't get all snippy because people look at what they see with more than just a pinch of skepticism.

and the fact that your project for a new ethic re: doping, moves from a continuum to(of) less, and shifts into reverse, and moves the doping benchmark to this new Brailsford Gollum figure equilibrium.

 

[horsinabout]

You know, maybe the reason i get you guys in a huff about being so positive about racing now, isn't that I think it's perfect, it's that i lived through a time that was so much worse. 1995-1996 were ludicrous.

Try this on for size, in early 1996 I was tested at University of Pamplona. Vo2 max was 91ml/kg, threshold was 6w/kg, max power was 7.5 w/kg... i should have been kicking ***, right? I went to Vuelta Pays Basque that year. If I made a selection of 60 guys on a 2nd category climb, I was ecstatic! I would sit on 80th wheel, all day, and just suffer. I didn't even know what was going on in the race, I was just a spectator on wheels, with my heart rate at 180. It was ridiculous.

Maybe our misunderstanding is that I've experienced things, first hand, when they were really bad. Really, really, really bad. So, to me, now is such a stark contrast, I can't help but be a bit giddy (to your annoyance)...

It is good that someone with experience comes here and talks, but you are highlighting here just what a difference PED's make to racing. And we witness dominance from riders year on year in all aspects of the sport. Hence overt sceptism.

 

[hrotha]

JV, do your riders warm down? Are they professionals?

 

[Benotti69]

But he's not livid because he doesn't think Sky are cheating, and while you have been 'submitted to a bunch of garbage' (indeed, JV did some of the garbage chucking) perhaps he has a greater insight to what is going in the modern peloton, even though it isn't necessarily what you want to hear.

If Sky were cheating would he say it? No of course not. Be cutting his nose off the spite his face.

The sport knew what Armstrong was up to but accepted it because they believed it would be good for the sport financially. They could think that Murdoch taking an interest in this minority sport will bring in the readies and make it more global.