JV talks, sort of

[armchairclimber]

I look forward to the "Is Hog on the Garmin Bandwagon?" threads

Beat me to it.

 

[zigmeister]

I always enjoy the keyboard warriors who don't run a team, manage a team, or really have a full idea of the responsibility of owning a team and what that involves.

But continue on fellas...enventually JV won't come on here anymore and you can continue to talk yourselves in circles (not that you don't already as the past several pages have shown) and end up completely nowhere.

JV has made a few suggestions, which of course, nobody will ever take him up on. One is, go get involved in your local cycling, not just racing, but the other aspects that include the managing/doping controls etc.

But, like many if this World, people complain, like politics, yet never go out and do anything about it, and keep voting the same jackasses into the job. But you continually rail JV over and over with completely pointless/ill-conceived and often off target questions and complaints.

I don't really understand why a few of you can't clearly quote a question in a simple sentence or two, as requested by JV, to answer.

I won't hunt through and search for obscure and lengthy posts trying to determine what is an actual question, or another pointless rant, and I'm sure he doesn't have time to do it either.

Here, let's quote some 4 paragraph rant that is all over the place, and ask him to answer it...meh, not happening.

Seems some of you are so excited to garner JV's attention, that it fuels your senselessness. Kind of like young school girls who's father didn't give them attention and never had a role model show them has a woman should be treated. Then, when any guy comes along and gives you attention, you lose your minds. Then become strippers of course.

The thread is becoming quite useless at this point, even when JV is trying to accommodate people. I don't see Brailsford or the likes on here trying to engage and talk about these issues.

 

[Michele]

I look forward to the "Is Hog on the Garmin Bandwagon?" threads

Fat Cyclist 2.0?

 

[SeriousSam]

I always enjoy the keyboard warriors who don't run a team, manage a team, or really have a full idea of the responsibility of owning a team and what that involves.

I always enjoy this type of comment, not just in cycling. The idea that you need to earn the right to criticize, or have an opinion. That outsiders ought to accept what they're told and stfu.

But continue on fellas...enventually JV won't come on here anymore and you can continue to talk yourselves in circles (not that you don't already as the past several pages have shown) and end up completely nowhere.

JV's (highly filtered) perspective is very interesting and that he posts here is great, but if he doesn't feel like posting any more, so be it. The prospect of that happening shouldn't deter anyone from freely expressing his opinion up to and including calling out JV on his BS.

JV has made a few suggestions, which of course, nobody will ever take him up on. One is, go get involved in your local cycling, not just racing, but the other aspects that include the managing/doping controls etc.

Those suggestions are completely tangential to what posters here seek: Information. We aren't asking JV to tell us how we can personally do something to combat doping.

But, like many if this World, people complain, like politics, yet never go out and do anything about it, and keep voting the same jackasses into the job.

The only possible impact of a vote is an astronomically small chance to determine the outcome of an election. In other words, you might as well throw it in the trash. Why doing something as useless as voting should be a prerequisite to complain and criticize is a mystery.

Seems some of you are so excited to garner JV's attention, that it fuels your senselessness. Kind of like young school girls who's father didn't give them attention and never had a role model show them has a woman should be treated. Then, when any guy comes along and gives you attention, you lose your minds. Then become strippers of course.

Seems like you might be a typical white knight of the internet, excited to garner JV's attention by admonishing the boorish clinic posters. Kind of like a nerdy guy who hopes he can score with the girl of his dreams when he defends her against mean bullies.

Hm.. gonna stop the analogy here.

The thread is becoming quite useless at this point, even when JV is trying to accommodate people. I don't see Brailsford or the likes on here trying to engage and talk about these issues.

Nope, it's a good thread and even this latest exchange was interesting to read.

 

[sniper]

...

why does JV pretend not to know or not to care about Froome? Froome is beating his riders by quite some margin.
Froome's lies (e.g. with regards to Bilharzia) and mutant performances are too obvious and too insulting to anybody with a brain. Yet JV comes in here with an "I don't know" and all sorts of caveats why Froome might really be doing it clean.
On twitter, fine.
In here, fine as well, but if he insult our intelligence he should expect to receive some flack in return. Fair game.
I personally don't think he's being treated unfairly.
That is not to say that i wish he didn't come in here. On the contrary.
And on issues that have nothing to do with Sky / Froome his input clearly is most legit/interesing/enlightening etc.
But if he does come here, he should not play dumb wrt sky/froome. His team gets their asses wiped, and JV should be most concerned.
So my central question would be: why his lack of concern? Why his continuous attempts (mainly on twitter) to put Sky/Froome in a better light, rather than to place some legitimate question marks behind their performances?

 

[GuyIncognito]

The level of attitude in here is insane.
Having an opinion is fine. Being a massive ******* is not. I never thought I'd say this, but about 6 of you are worse than Sky fans. And I actually mean it.

Do I trust JV fully? Of course not, the man signed Nuyens for god's sake. But he has the right to an opinion, as I have a right to mine. The circuitous arguments some of you come up to justify being asshats to him while claiming he owes you something alternate between hilarious and infuriating, but never stray too far from very goddamn stupid.

The guy even went as far as he could in implying Froome is on drugs as he can without being sued, but nope...not good enough. The entitlement is staggering.

I'll say it again. Half a dozen of you are blinder than Sky fans. Which I previously didn't think possible.

 

[sniper]

But he has the right to an opinion, as I have a right to mine.

nice strawman. i think you'll find all six of your favorite posters agreeing with you here.

to get things clear, are you implying we should go easier on him than we do on sky fans?
if so, just say so.
your argument might be that we should be so thrilled to have a team manager interacting with us in here that we should go easier on him than on other posters.
i could understand that argument, but i would disagree with it.

 

[Benotti69]

Anyone expecting JV to come on here and do more than toy with us is naive in the extreme.

JV is not going to give definitive answers in the clinic. He was raised in a 'Professional Liar's' household. He has learnt well

JV comes in here to scratch an itch, nothing more. It is all part of his Shtick and the character he likes to present.

Go back and read his interview with Kimmage. That will tell you much more about JV than anything he lets slip in the clinic.

I am glad he spelled out Froome's doping in as much as he could, but to be honest anyone waiting for JV to do it needs to just kick back and watch american pro wrestling........

JV has too much invested in the sport. Remember that when reading his comments.

 

[Benotti69]

This is one of my nagging questions. I do believe that Brailsford changes his comments to fit the times.
Everything he's said before though is on record but he never seems to be actually confronted with his previous statements.

And yes..Zam is totally spot on..if you want to have JV come here and seriously answer your questions than the few that are being aggressive and antagonistic should learn some manners and act in a mature fashion. That is not defined as @ss-kissing

You may not agree with JV but acting superior or attacking does nothing and only brands those who do as immature Neanderthals..


and btw yes you can be confidant and straightforward and at the same time be somewhat thin-skinned. I totally get that. So shut up

cough cough

Jonathan Vaughters @Vaughters · 19h
Just started a new class...My "Big Data" professor's name is Phil Beaver. Professor Phil Beaver.

You were saying Mew.........

 

[blackcat]

This is one of my nagging questions. I do believe that Brailsford changes his comments to fit the times.
Everything he's said before though is on record but he never seems to be actually confronted with his previous statements.

And yes..Zam is totally spot on..if you want to have JV come here and seriously answer your questions than the few that are being aggressive and antagonistic should learn some manners and act in a mature fashion. That is not defined as @ss-kissing

You may not agree with JV but acting superior or attacking does nothing and only brands those who do as immature Neanderthals..


and btw yes you can be confidant and straightforward and at the same time be somewhat thin-skinned. I totally get that. So shut up

problem with lies, or spin, or expedient responses, you never really can go back to history, and reverse engineer their source based on the truth.

it is very easy to determine a pathologic liar if they live a public life, by seeking out their record in the media, and triangulating all they had said for the manifest contradictions.

one is more likely to forget about the record of the lie, than the record of facts and the true history. you will more easily forget when you have confected a fable based on thin air

 

[blackcat]

The level of attitude in here is insane.
Having an opinion is fine. Being a massive ******* is not. I never thought I'd say this, but about 6 of you are worse than Sky fans. And I actually mean it.

Do I trust JV fully? Of course not, the man signed Nuyens for god's sake. But he has the right to an opinion, as I have a right to mine.

one can invoke daniel patrick moynihan the gud senator
everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not their own facts
versus
a more rigorous perspective
no, youre not entitled to your opinion
http://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978

 

[Netserk]

Nice article BC.

 

[JV1973]

The level of attitude in here is insane.
Having an opinion is fine. Being a massive ******* is not. I never thought I'd say this, but about 6 of you are worse than Sky fans. And I actually mean it.

Do I trust JV fully? Of course not, the man signed Nuyens for god's sake. But he has the right to an opinion, as I have a right to mine. The circuitous arguments some of you come up to justify being asshats to him while claiming he owes you something alternate between hilarious and infuriating, but never stray too far from very goddamn stupid.

The guy even went as far as he could in implying Froome is on drugs as he can without being sued, but nope...not good enough. The entitlement is staggering.

I'll say it again. Half a dozen of you are blinder than Sky fans. Which I previously didn't think possible.

Just to clarify something: I presented you guys an objective manner of thinking and options regards to Froome's climbing speed. There was no skepticism implied beyond the understanding of the numbers and their meaning. And, I'm sorry to say, but if you want my opinion on Froome, not an objective map, but a subjective personal opinion? I think he's clean.

does that mean I'd be shocked if I was wrong? No. Does that mean I'm absolutely convince I'm right? Nope.

But my opinion? My opinion is he's clean. I think he's got some crazy adaptive physiology. And I wish I had identified that more quickly.

And no, that is not financially driven. Cycling is not a game of "rising tides raise all boats". My financial situation is cycling is quite independent of Sky's or Froome's. If that team went down in flames, would it hurt sponsorship? Probably, short term, but then there'd be one less team to deal with on the sponsorship market(we pitched a deal to 21st Century Fox a while back, they loved it.....ouch). Cycling is cannibalistic and parasitic on the business level (something that needs to change, desperately)...It's hardly a "share the wealth" environment...

Anyhow, throw tomatoes and such if you must. It's just my opinion.

JV

 

[Netserk]

JV what do you think of the 'new' 2017(?) plans? (Regarding the calender and divisions)

 

[JV1973]

JV what do you think of the 'new' 2017(?) plans? (Regarding the calender and divisions)

I think it's a ridiculous piece of ****.

The problem with all these reforms is that no one has backed up and thought about this strategically. you have to ask the right questions if you want a good answer. And no one has asked the simple strategy questions such as "How is success defined for cycling?" "How do we achieve that success?".....and once those are answered start looking at what changes are needed to head down the new path.

Instead what he have is a ridiculously tactical mess that is totally dominated by ASO. No strategic thought whatsoever. It's really sad. Such a beautiful sport that is dominated by completely outdated and myopic thinking.

I can give so many examples from my days on the CCP, but it makes me want to barf every time I start thinking about it.

JV

 

[Netserk]

Would you like things to stay as they are, or just drop the whole WT/PT?

 

[Granville57]

JV,

I'm not sure if you've read any or all of Juliet Macur's most recent book, but I'm wondering about Allen Lim's assessment of Floyd's mental health, as presented on those pages.

I can't seem to shake the notion that Allen may have been overreacting to some of Floyd's behavior, because, I dunno, maybe Lim just hadn't been around too many extreme personalities up that point in his life? Purely conjecture on my part, of course.

But beyond the back-and-forth about how much money Lim did or did not receive, and the extent that Lim may or may not have been a part of Floyd's doping, do you think he painted an accurate picture of Floyd?

Thanks

 

[JV1973]

Would you like things to stay as they are, or just drop the whole WT/PT?

You're not asking the right question. The question you should ask is: "as a fan, what do I want professional cycling to be like?"

Answer that for me, and it's already one step closer to a good strategy than is currently devised.

Because in the end, if we have a sport that more and more fans love, the success follows. So, design the sport based on that one simple fact.

JV

 

[Granville57]

I just wanted to update the following exchange so that it's line with the currently accepted protocol.

JV what do you think of the 'new' 2017(?) plans? (Regarding the calender and divisions)

I think it's a ridiculous piece of shit.

 

[hrotha]

Along the lines of what the fans want...

JV, cycling is becoming increasingly conservative and, to be honest, a borefest for traditional supporters, to the point where more often than not all the GC action of a given stage (or an Ardennes classic) can be posted on Vine. The Vuelta actively promotes that format, and the Giro is increasingly leaning towards that direction (I'm sure the 2012 Giro was your favourite but looking at it objectively you have to admit it was extremely dull). Even admitting that many newer fans seem to like this style of racing where the contenders rarely move before the final 3 or 4 km, I'd say that's largely because they don't know better, and when we get a proper stage they readily call it epic. Do you think this is a long-term problem for cycling's marketability, as races become just too dull? When F1 got too boring even for F1 standards, they sought ways (rules changes) to spice things up. Do you believe cycling should do the same, or do you think Vine cycling is the way to go?

 

[Netserk]

Okay, I'd like smaller teams (in races), so 6 men in races where we now have 8, and 8 in the GTs. It seems to do the trick in the OG.

Do you think that would lead to smaller teams (rosters), teams participating in more races, more teams (if they also get smaller)? Do you think it will result in better (and less controlled) racing?

 

[JV1973]

JV,

I'm not sure if you've read any or all of Juliet Macur's most recent book, but I'm wondering about Allen Lim's assessment of Floyd's mental health, as presented on those pages.

I can't seem to shake the notion that Allen may have been overreacting to some of Floyd's behavior, because, I dunno, maybe Lim just hadn't been around too many extreme personalities up that point in his life? Purely conjecture on my part, of course.

But beyond the back-and-forth about how much money Lim did or did not receive, and the extent that Lim may or may not have been a part of Floyd's doping, do you think he painted an accurate picture of Floyd?

Thanks

Most top riders have extreme personalities in one form or another. Floyd is no more or less so, he's just a little too intelligent(sees injustice and hypocrisy) and comes from a background that put a premium on morality, so he ends up being more tormented than most. My opinion.

 

[Granville57]

You're not asking the right question. The question you should ask is: "as a fan, what do I want professional cycling to be like?

I think a good starting point would be to make more races available for those who actually want to watch them. But that's just me...thinking outside of the box.

(Snark not directed at you, JV. It's a total joke that I the only way I can follow much of the sport is through unreliable pirate feeds on the internet.)


Oh, and before I forget: I would love to see TT bikes banned from the sport. Too many times, these professional athletes at the height of their capabilities, are made to look like rank amateurs. Mutliple riders going off the road during TTTs, riders crashing while going slowly around sharp bends in a TT...the list goes on and on.

The best TT riders are still the best whether competing on road bikes or TT bikes, so what's the point? In my opinion, it's bad for the sport. When a casual—or potentially new—fan see riders losing control of their machine as if they've never been on one before, it is hardly a flaterreing image for the sport.

But I digress...

 

[JV1973]

Okay, I'd like smaller teams (in races), so 6 men in races where we now have 8, and 8 in the GTs. It seems to do the trick in the OG.

Do you think that would lead to smaller teams (rosters), teams participating in more races, more teams (if they also get smaller)? Do you think it will result in better (and less controlled) racing?

I actually think those are very good ideas. Yes, the racing would be less predictable...whether that increases fans or decreases, I'm not sure... i think that also has the effect of lowering the cost to run a team bringing it more in line with realistic commercial sponsorship valuations for cycling, as opposed to the current environment which is less and less commercial and more and more Billionaire plaything driven.

 

[JV1973]

I think a good starting point would be to make more races available for those who actually want to watch them. But that's just me...thinking outside of the box.

(Snark not directed at you, JV. It's a total joke that I the only way I can follow much of the sport is through unreliable pirate feeds on the internet.)


Oh, and before I forget: I would love to see TT bikes banned from the sport. Too many times, these professional athletes at the height of their capabilities, are made to look like rank amateurs. Mutliple riders going off the road during TTTs, riders crashing while going slowly around sharp bends in a TT...the list goes on and on.

The best TT riders are still the best whether competing on road bikes or TT bikes, so what's the point? In my opinion, it's bad for the sport. When a casual—or potentially new—fan see riders losing control of their machine as if they've never been on one before, it is hardly a flaterreing image for the sport.

But I digress...

TTT crashes make great TV.

Ok, I gotta run.