JV talks, sort of

[Benotti69]

JV getting it on twitter

Donkey Whale ‏@DonkeyWhale 3h
@Vaughters @ondrive Can't believe there are still people following Jonathan Vaughters. He's the Paris Hilton of cycling: famous but vacuous.


Jonathan VaughtersVerified account
‏@Vaughters
@DonkeyWhale @ondrive Wow, that's a big word. What does it mean?


Donkey Whale ‏@DonkeyWhale 2h
@Vaughters @ondrive And right on cue, like a circus-trained dog Vaughters selects standard unoriginal response No. 231 & guffaws to himself.

not too many believe JV when he says it is not cool to dope anymore

 

[BYOP88]

JV getting it on twitter



not too many believe JV when he says it is not cool to dope anymore

Did anyone with a working brain believe him in the first place?

 

[Benotti69]

Did anyone with a working brain believe him in the first place?

Sadly yes, lots.......including Kimmage and Walsh

 

[Benotti69]

Hey JV, your silence on Menchov's ban and how UCI handled it is deafening.

New generation of snakeoil dealers!

 

[Wallace]

Hey JV, your silence on Menchov's ban and how UCI handled it is deafening.

New generation of snakeoil dealers!

You do realize that there's this race going on in France right now and that JV is probably a little busy now? Maybe you should wait until the Tour is over to see what he has to say.

 

[Benotti69]

You do realize that there's this race going on in France right now and that JV is probably a little busy now? Maybe you should wait until the Tour is over to see what he has to say.

Vaughters has plenty of time to tweet sh1te since TdF started. He could say he was happy that ABP is working, he could give us 140 characters of his anti doping opinion on this. I dont expect him to give me a thesis on Menchov's ban, but he probably reads the clinic as bedtime material.

As i dont tweet i cannot send him or post or tweet so have put it here.

 

[webvan]

Guys, let's be real, when was the last time JV posted here? 2012?

 

[BYOP88]

Guys, let's be real, when was the last time JV posted here? 2012?

A couple of weeks ago. Unless he got a classmate to do it.

 

[Benotti69]

Guys, let's be real, when was the last time JV posted here? 2012?

06-18-14, 16:46

Werd, muthafugga

3 weeks ago.....

 

[I Love To Dope]

JV YOU STUPID ***** WHY WON'T YOU RESPOND TO MY POSTS? ARE YOU SUPER ***??????? Do you not know how CONPUTERS WORK? I bet you're some huge loser, big idiot loser, answer my questions you stupid *****.

 

[Benotti69]

You do realize that there's this race going on in France right now and that JV is probably a little busy now? Maybe you should wait until the Tour is over to see what he has to say.

Vaughters on twitter accepting to give a talk at INSEAD, which he had to research. Would someone at Garmin please tell JV that there is a big important race going on!!!

 

[Benotti69]

Hey JV, you ok with your Poodle Talanksy riding with the likes of Leiphiemer?

http://www.strava.com/activities/165089750

Leipheimer "Riding with Pete and Andrew Talansky keeps me young and I want them to learn from my experience as well as my mistakes. But make no mistake, they are at the highest level of the sport, by no means would I blow them away."

 

[I Love To Dope]

JV, do you think Ted King and other riders at his level are good enough to be pro?

 

[blackcat]

Hey JV, you ok with your Poodle Talanksy riding with the likes of Leiphiemer?

http://www.strava.com/activities/165089750

AT wants an apology from Gerrans. he is a joke (Talansky on Gerrans)

 

[Benotti69]

So JV, how about that another doper wins Le Tour..............

Sorry if this what cleanER cycling has become it is still a joke!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

"I was pulled out of Austria at the last minute and that sort of fired me up a little bit. I was a little bit annoyed about it and like Millar we put our head down to get the best result and second place was it."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bittersweet-silver-for-dennis-in-the-commonwealth-games

Is this you showing the kids who's boss again, JV?

 

[JV1973]

This - Garmin are good 'former' dopers.

Because apparently they are 'repentant.'

How 'repentant' would they be if Jeff hadn't come knocking with the threat of a prison sentence....I didn't see much going on until that happened...

Now others will say JV spoke to Travis in 2004...so why did he get no suspension as that was definitely inside the SOL...JV still has received no suspension.


And that leaves aside the other point - that Tommy, CVDV and Ryder have all ridden better 'clean' than doped. I particularly liked the 'contrition' showed by the likes of CVDV as he moaned about how hard his six month winter ban was...years of doping and he missed a training camp...


As regards Gaimon, tattoos, etc, maybe he is clean, I don't know...but I remember a guy called Michael Barry used to wear an I am clean wristband.



CVDV in 2010 just the time of Landis' revelations:





http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com...ash-feels-pain-landis-causing-the-sport-.html

So, to correct, on the record your typical slanderous and inaccurate comments:

1. Frankie Andrea also confessed inside SOL as a retired rider. No suspension. I was the anonymous other rider in the NYT article. as for my convo with Travis in 2004, I gave him quite a bit of information that would have been very new to anti-doping authorities in 2004. I did not incriminate myself directly and give a direct confession. I skirted the issue with "no comment". I was giving them a picture of the general landscape and basically saying to them "hang in there" as they were getting pounded by Tyler hamilton's people at that point. I wasn't asked to show up there, nobody said I'd get a deal if I went and spoke. I went in on my own volition.

2. Jeff Novitsky never called me. Nor did Travis. I called Travis, got Jeff's phone number from him, and called Jeff. That is verifiable. Please feel free to use this statement to go and ask involved parties if this is accurate.

3.Regards to Floyd's 2010 unveiling, Floyd knew previous that publicly we weren't going to say squat. I told him that. Now, while some of the statements my riders made were not what I would have liked, as I told them to just say nothing, period, that doesn't change the fact that we were already in touch with Travis and Jeff before Floyd's comments became public, it does not change the fact that our testimony came without subpoena or any level of legal compelling- and came months, if not a full year in some cases, before any of the other witnesses came forward. We supported Floyd where it counted, not in the media frenzy, and I stick by that choice 100%. We were asked not to comment in public by Jeff, USDOJ, and USADA and so we did not comment. That simple.

4. Our team is and always has been 100% clean - and will remain that way. That statement can withstand any level of scrutiny and I look forward to standing in front of God himself and saying the same thing.

But please, keep up your fine work, Digger. It has done so much good.

JV

 

[JV1973]

True, but I would say those wins were more down to individual rather than team strength.

Its also obvious that JV gets very uncomfortable when he is pushed a bit, as evident by how easily he got upset at digger the other day.

uncomfortable? No ... Pushed? With same and reasonable lines of questioning, I think I'm quite open. Try having this convo with Jim Ochowicz.

But do I get upset? Hell yes. When I read some of the inaccuracies and self serving angles on events by Digger, I get very angry.

JV

 

[JV1973]

He could have easily just ignored it and danced around it which might have been the easier thing to do. In the end I don't see the problem. He faces up to it.

I didn't know too much about him before his San Luis performance, only heard of him vaguely previously to that. Looking at him this week in Utah, he's done great work on the front. Betsy mentioned on here he's her favourite rider and he seems an impressive guy by a recent interview I read with him on nyvelocity. Looks like the kind of rider and character we should all want to see succeed in the sport.

I don't think he even used a ghost writer for the book and he's penned this himself which is all the more impressive to add to it.

Phil is a great and very intelligent guy.

 

[Jack (6 ch)]

Jonathan - you may have seen we have a thread entitled 'Most believable Tour in years'. Would that be your view? What did you think of some of the mountain performances?

 

[JV1973]

Jonathan - you may have seen we have a thread entitled 'Most believable Tour in years'. Would that be your view? What did you think of some of the mountain performances?

So as not to draw the ire of the clinic, I'll say this:

On the mean, the climbing performances of the top 20 in the Tour were very much within normal physiological possibilities. I am an eternal optimist, so I truly do believe things are, step by step, going in a good direction.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

So, to correct, on the record .... etc. JV

JV, you may have addressed this in a previous comment but in your opinion/view what should be the guidelines about allowing former dopers to work in organized cycling as in the UCI Pro Tour. By that I mean ownership, management, coaching, counselling etc.

Are there different "rules" for organized cycling as opposed to private cycling businesses such as Hincapie's. I would expect any former doper can do what he/she wants in private business regardless of their reputation. Some such as Leipheimer may even sponsor grand fondos as a form of redemption or paying back for their transgressions.

There appears to be two extremes 1. No former doper should be involved in organized cycling at all and 2. Former dopers have paid their price and their dues by admitting they doped, serving their suspensions and enduring the condemnation of the public etc. and they are entitled to move on.

Are there "rules" based on how a former doper confessed or "comes out"? Voluntary confessions versus post test confessions etc. Are there "rules" as to the degree of sincerity for apologies or the sincerity of efforts at redemption etc.

On the one hand most former dopers have a wealth of knowledge about cycle racing and obviously can be looked to as naturals to continue to be involved in the sport but on the other hand does the employment of former dopers tend to sustain the "culture of doping"?

I am just curious because although from time to time I disagree with you, I respect your candidness and willingness to debate the issues and not dodge them in a forum such as this. And I respect the fact you do not post anonymously. And in your case I have no problem with you being involved in organized cycling, but as you know others in the Clinic would vehemently disagree with me.

Thanks.

 

[Digger]

So, to correct, on the record your typical slanderous and inaccurate comments:

1. Frankie Andrea also confessed inside SOL as a retired rider. No suspension. I was the anonymous other rider in the NYT article. as for my convo with Travis in 2004, I gave him quite a bit of information that would have been very new to anti-doping authorities in 2004. I did not incriminate myself directly and give a direct confession. I skirted the issue with "no comment". I was giving them a picture of the general landscape and basically saying to them "hang in there" as they were getting pounded by Tyler hamilton's people at that point. I wasn't asked to show up there, nobody said I'd get a deal if I went and spoke. I went in on my own volition.

2. Jeff Novitsky never called me. Nor did Travis. I called Travis, got Jeff's phone number from him, and called Jeff. That is verifiable. Please feel free to use this statement to go and ask involved parties if this is accurate.

3.Regards to Floyd's 2010 unveiling, Floyd knew previous that publicly we weren't going to say squat. I told him that. Now, while some of the statements my riders made were not what I would have liked, as I told them to just say nothing, period, that doesn't change the fact that we were already in touch with Travis and Jeff before Floyd's comments became public, it does not change the fact that our testimony came without subpoena or any level of legal compelling- and came months, if not a full year in some cases, before any of the other witnesses came forward. We supported Floyd where it counted, not in the media frenzy, and I stick by that choice 100%. We were asked not to comment in public by Jeff, USDOJ, and USADA and so we did not comment. That simple.

4. Our team is and always has been 100% clean - and will remain that way. That statement can withstand any level of scrutiny and I look forward to standing in front of God himself and saying the same thing.

But please, keep up your fine work, digger. It has done so much good.

JV

I know it has - thanks for the appreciative comments.

What was slanderous?

I said you spoke to Travis in 2004...eventhough it was extremely general by all accounts...whether Frankie got suspended or not has no relevance to you. Why did you never get a suspension...
You rationalise you getting no suspension by bringing Frankie into this...awesome!
as regards Jeff - doesn't matter whether you contacted him first or not - he was going to contact you, something you know full well...

Elsewhere you said you waited for the right opportunity to come forward!! How brave...without Floyd what would you and your boys have done...

you sing the praises of your team...Christian vilified Floyd, millar did the same, Weltz did the same and a former rider of yours, Wiggins, also did the same...and talanksy said there was no evidence against lance...
If this was standing by landis, god help the guy if you had decided not to 'support' him.


JV, I see through the bull and see you for what you are.

 

[Digger]

So as not to draw the ire of the clinic, I'll say this:

On the mean, the climbing performances of the top 20 in the Tour were very much within normal physiological possibilities. I am an eternal optimist, so I truly do believe things are, step by step, going in a good direction.

Like Stuart O'Grady doped only once?

 

[JV1973]

JV, you may have addressed this in a previous comment but in your opinion/view what should be the guidelines about allowing former dopers to work in organized cycling as in the UCI Pro Tour. By that I mean ownership, management, coaching, counselling etc.

Are there different "rules" for organized cycling as opposed to private cycling businesses such as Hincapie's. I would expect any former doper can do what he/she wants in private business regardless of their reputation. Some such as Leipheimer may even sponsor grand fondos as a form of redemption or paying back for their transgressions.

There appears to be two extremes 1. No former doper should be involved in organized cycling at all and 2. Former dopers have paid their price and their dues by admitting they doped, serving their suspensions and enduring the condemnation of the public etc. and they are entitled to move on.

Are there "rules" based on how a former doper confessed or "comes out"? Voluntary confessions versus post test confessions etc. Are there "rules" as to the degree of sincerity for apologies or the sincerity of efforts at redemption etc.

On the one hand most former dopers have a wealth of knowledge about cycle racing and obviously can be looked to as naturals to continue to be involved in the sport but on the other hand does the employment of former dopers tend to sustain the "culture of doping"?

I am just curious because although from time to time I disagree with you, I respect your candidness and willingness to debate the issues and not dodge them in a forum such as this. And I respect the fact you do not post anonymously. And in your case I have no problem with you being involved in organized cycling, but as you know others in the Clinic would vehemently disagree with me.

Thanks.

I can only tell you the rules we function with at Slipstream:

1. We don't judge people on their past, to a point. That point, for us, is the inception of the WT level Slipstream Sports team in 2008. By 2008, it was very apparent that doping was no longer a case of "everyone is doing it"... Too many issues (puerto, festina, hamilton, etc) made it impossible to even attempt to justify doping with "everyone is doing it". Once you're past 2008, you really have to be rather hardened to continue to dope. So, our line in the sand was Jan 1st, 2008. Before that, we were open to forgiveness, redemption, and a path forward, after that, we felt zero tolerance was the best way forward. It's a composite solution that we feel re-incorporates guys who got sucked into the system and made bad choices with worse influences, while excluding more hardened "I'll find a way to dope, no matter what" types. It's imperfect, but we felt it was as close as we could get.

2. Willingness to be honest to authorities. This is a key component to what we felt was the best overall solution. While this upsets some, as publicly we have been guilty of some bull****, with those that can truly change anti-doping (authorities, scientists) we felt 100% honesty and zero bull**** was a necessity to be a member of our team.

3. Never fought doping charges, if guilty. If you notice, none of my pack of black sheep have ever fought charges. Even Thomas Dekker never legally fought back. We felt that it was best to only hire guys that once confronted, caught, or admit, that they did not choose legal options in battling charges and simply accepted the facts.

To answer your last question, right now, I think employing certain ex-dopers is one of the absolute key facets in keeping a team clean. But they have to be genuine and humane people. Ex-dopers are like anyone in life, there are some that are good people and there are some that are not. We try to hire based on the individual human, not a label.

That said, my hope would be in a decade or two, this will be a moot topic, as ex-dopers will be so few, as opposed to so many.

JV