JV talks, sort of

[blackcat]

Yes, landis definitely left the amish/mennonite community at 20 or older and said right give me the drugs...I mean he struggled with newer cities but was ok with doping from the get go....

did not he leave before his rumspringer or whatever you call it. he did not even need rumspringer, he was a free thinker and he was out when he was 18.

 

[Digger]

ok, I can give you one paradox, or quandary that has not been resolved to my satisfaction.
Landis said he did not use testo during that 2006 Tour.

But the isotope testing on his other samples, indicated it was present in his urine for other stages when he gave urine samples.

Now, the options this leaves: i) metabolites in his bloodbags (can any boffin answer if this is plausible)
or ii) Freddy Viane was mixing some testo solution with his massage oil
or iii) Floyd was indeed using a testo patch or some other testo application method
or iv) some other reason

the caveat is, the isotope retesting of urine, was legit, was indeed Floyd's 2006 tdf urine, and it was not tampered with or the results concocted in a lab. And there is miniscule, but not plausible chances of those reasons. But we wont go down the dBrower or Judge Hue rabbithole, or Arnie Baker rabbithole. no thnx

find out about it...I can't help you.

 

[blackcat]

Well Armstrong was removed as official winner but regardless, was Floyd clean for that performance?

Landis already told Bruyneel preseason that he would do anything that was required to ride TdF, so I dare say, he was already in full program mode.

 

[blackcat]

find out about it...I can't help you.

well, Landis said he did not take testo during that Tour.

I actually believe him on this.

But I still believe he had it applied, whether it was in the bb, or from Freddy Viane.

 

[sniper]

Yes, landis definitely left the amish/mennonite community at 20 or older and said right give me the drugs...I mean he struggled with newer cities but was ok with doping from the get go....

although of all posters you are probably in the best position to judge (the truthfulness of) what landis has said and not said,
again, I think we shouldn't be hard lining about this.
We won't know, probably, and by insisting on this you're at the risk of making landis' credibility on more urgent issues seem dependent on it, which however it is not.

 

[Digger]

Landis already told Bruyneel preseason that he would do anything that was required to ride TdF, so I dare say, he was already in full program mode.

so you are saying he lied in his confession with that statement.

Why is he lying, over six months? Why not say I doped at the start of the year rather than in June?

So landis joins USP in 2002 and Johan immediately starts him on a program...awesome!!

 

[blackcat]

ur making more fool of a muppet than one possibly can

all is quite unedifying

 

[Digger]

ur making more fool of a muppet than one possibly can

all is quite unedifying

indeed - lets start

you say you heard about ryder - you went back on that

you think he wasn't truthful - you went back on that

you said he had little options or nothing to lose - I said well he had the prospect of jail

you said he was likely doping long before he said he was - based on nothing - thus implying landis is telling lies...

and your common reply is to basically say don't take what you say literally.

I ask you why he'd lie about the timeline - you didn't reply.

 

[blackcat]

indeed - lets start

you say you heard about ryder - you went back on that

you think he wasn't truthful - you went back on that

you said he had little options or nothing to lose - I said well he had the prospect of jail

you said he was likely doping long before he said he was - based on nothing - thus implying landis is telling lies...

and your common reply is to basically say don't take what you say literally.

I ask you why he'd lie about the timeline - you didn't reply.

whatver m8, i will allow the posters and fellow Clinic 12 decide my fate.

And an isotope test

 

[D-Queued]

...and down the rabbit hole we descend with close to another 50 posts in a back-and-forth featuring a Fearless Floyd Friend.

First, I have raised this issue more than once over a number of years.

At this point, though, nobody is interested in provoking the Floyd faithful.

Floyd is a doper and a self-admitted liar who defrauded people under false pretense. Done.

Aside from the continued, and hard to swallow, denial over Testosterone use, he never showed for the LNDD trial. There is a whole lot of truth missing on that account.

Moreover, there is no way that you, Digger, can possibly vouch for Floyd's complete truthfulness. You may believe in it, but you cannot 'prove' that he hasn't made any false statements since 'Positively False'.

This is the JV thread. Discussion of Ryder's doping is relevant here. Not a blistering vouching for Floyd's honesty. That is irrelevant.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

Yes Floyd is a proven doper and liar.

Ryder on the hand is an Angel...

 

[Digger]

...and down the rabbit hole we descend with close to another 50 posts in a back-and-forth featuring a Fearless Floyd Friend.

First, I have raised this issue more than once over a number of years.

At this point, though, nobody is interested in provoking the Floyd faithful.

Floyd is a doper and a self-admitted liar who defrauded people under false pretense. Done.

Aside from the continued, and hard to swallow, denial over Testosterone use, he never showed for the LNDD trial. There is a whole lot of truth missing on that account.

Moreover, there is no way that you, Digger, can possibly vouch for Floyd's complete truthfulness. You may believe in it, but you cannot 'prove' that he hasn't made any false statements since 'Positively False'.

This is the JV thread. Discussion of Ryder's doping is relevant here. Not a blistering vouching for Floyd's honesty. That is irrelevant.

Dave.

We get it. You can't back up your claim about what Floyd said about Ryder. Not a post. Not one piece of evidence.

 

[RownhamHill]

whatver m8, i will allow the posters and fellow Clinic 12 decide my fate.

And an isotope test

I think there's only five of you left now. . .

 

[D-Queued]

We get it. You can't back up your claim about what Floyd said about Ryder. Not a post. Not one piece of evidence.

Other, more significant events have buried any trace of it.

So, if you like, I will take back my assertion. The Dauphine climb up Mt Ventoux is plenty strange enough without it anyways.

Here are Ryder and Curious George (who was still doping by his own account) way ahead of the field...

While Ryder did finish three minutes back from Leipheimer, who has also admitted he was still doping, he had bridged up from a lagging Floyd who finished 10 minutes back.

Ryder may not have won the stage, but there couldn't have been anyone that finished the climb faster.

Edit to add:

That Ryder hasn't made a big deal about the (*acknowledged to have been retracted) alleged statement from Floyd is meaningless. Ryder did subsequently admit to doping to USADA. That is far more relevant. In addition, this is somewhat analogous to where Roland Green once supported Chris Sheppard as a 'victim' of doping ("...It is the small guys like Shep (Chris Sheppard) who get crucified...), there was no further support once Rasmussen spilled the beans on Shep, Ryder, and McGrath. Dopers all.

Dave.

 

[blackcat]

I think there's only five of you left now. . .

nah, we have actually extended to FOURTEEN. I was using it as the meme it has become thnx to JV72

 

[blackcat]

indeed - lets start

you say you heard about ryder - you went back on that

you think he wasn't truthful - you went back on that

you said he had little options or nothing to lose - I said well he had the prospect of jail

you said he was likely doping long before he said he was - based on nothing - thus implying landis is telling lies...

and your common reply is to basically say don't take what you say literally.

I ask you why he'd lie about the timeline - you didn't reply.

you are the second iteration of a gestalt of House, dBrower, Chris H, Judge Hue, and some other homers over on DP. We have been there and successfully did away with these nuffies like urself.

 

[MarkvW]

This isn't even about Vaughters any more. It's about Digger trying to prove the impossible: That Fraud Landis is an honest man.

 

[Digger]

you are the second iteration of a gestalt of House, dBrower, Chris H, Judge Hue, and some other homers over on DP. We have been there and successfully did away with these nuffies like urself.

you make stuff up, say it's not meant to be taken literally...

you gave credence to him saying that about ryder - then pulled back from it...
did Floyd lie in his confession...you said he held things back...you are asked for examples, you can't.

Asked for why he would lie in his timeframe - you refused to answer...

you then proceeded to make a fool of yourself when trying to talk about how testosterone got into the sample, and talk of the isotope test...and then used a slur to talk about how the amish come of age....

that you are able to refer to all these people on another forum and you still haven't learned anything

 

[Digger]

This isn't even about Vaughters any more. It's about Digger trying to prove the impossible: That Fraud Landis is an honest man.

still waiting for you to tell us how Floyd lied in his confession and to tell us are you going to tell all this, your feelings about Floyd, to him directly....

you may as well get it all out there - you despise Floyd - you have done for years - just admit it - from the times you mentioned his father in law right until now...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

JV talks, just not to the riders he is letting go.

Seriously, what a bunt.

Von Hoff only saw him a couple of times, Gaimon, Dekker and Von Hoff were all out of contract with no notification, certainly not by the due date as stipulated by UCI regulations (may they ever be marinated in dog vomit).

Dekker's comeback at least never hit the heights pre-ban where he was fuelled on EPO etc.

As he rightly points out, how do riders manage to match or better their doping days when returning from a ban?

eh, Ryder?

ffs.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

The wave of disgruntled employees was a tipping point for the illusion of US postal. Sky defenders say that former employees have nothing negative to say, in order to highlight the teams cleanliness...

Are any ex garmins retiring (not counting the VdV and DZ types)? Those now outside the peloton may be able to share more without biting their tounge.

 

[pastronef]

The wave of disgruntled employees was a tipping point for the illusion of US postal. Sky defenders say that former employees have nothing negative to say, in order to highlight the teams cleanliness...

Are any ex garmins retiring (not counting the VdV and DZ types)? Those now outside the peloton may be able to share more without biting their tounge.

Hushovd, Millar, (Robert Hunter but he works with them) Koldo Fernandez, Nuyens?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Hushovd, Millar, (Robert Hunter but he works with them) Koldo Fernandez, Nuyens?

And what happens to Millar's stake in the Garmin team?

 

[hrotha]

Not to mention the whole Trent Lowe thing. Slipstream strikes me as the kind of place where everybody is superficially "cool" and "friendly", just so that the backstabbing is all the more surprising when it inevitably comes.

 

[Digger]

Two things - treating his riders like this is the perfect recipe for fostering an atmosphere of having to dope...

Two: I am not sure how JV can vouch for his new team as forcefully has the previous incarnation - he can't possibly do so when he doesn't know the new riders as well...having said that he'll no doubt try...