JV talks, sort of

[roundabout]

Slightly OT, but I have wondered why Hesjedal wasn't selected for that Tour.

Bur maybe Landis was so well prepared that he didn't need any extra mountain help with an all-star team of Moerenhout, Merckx, Moos and Perdiguero

 

[thehog]

My thought exactly!

Now, I could also be confusing a statement about Axel Merckx, but I am pretty sure it was Ryder.

Dave.

So he didn't say it?

 

[sniper]

Dr Millan’s testing methods are groundbreaking, in that they try to evaluate what real physiological values are relevant in road cycling, not just looking at VO2 and other parameters that very often do not correlate to actual performance or talent. This winter, when he called me from our training camp in New Mexico, his excited tone was something I’d never heard before. In his funny Basque accent, he blurted out with glee, “Jonathan, I have discovered that you have one of the most talented riders in the world on your team. His values are incredible, like Contador. He can win some very big races, I am sure.”



I assumed he was talking about Christian Vande Velde, but he soon corrected me.



“No, Tom Danielson. You must be very careful with this rider, he has an incredible engine. He is so very talented.”
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...matic-tom-danielson-64053#rE9RZtMivpKjoSDl.99

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...aughters-on-the-enigmatic-tom-danielson-64053
how were the true values of dopers like contador and vande velde measured exactly?
must be groundbreaking stuff indeed.

 

[blackcat]

You know what I would challenge you to go back and seek this out - because there is no way landis said this - and if it was posted, then the original poster made it up.

actually, remember that 2006 Dauphine, Floyd was either leading or second place on GC and he had a jour sans.

Now, he maight have had blood out. He might have chose not to ride that day, having tested his p/w the days before and content where his training/build was at, and did not want to do any more closer to the Tour, and start his taper then,

or or or... multiple reasons potential that were not a "jour sans" or hunger flat/bonk. And maybe this day, FL informed Ryder what was "up" and that he had to ride for Ryder that day, not ride for Floyd. /third person

 

[blackcat]

My thought exactly!

Now, I could also be confusing a statement about Axel Merckx, but I am pretty sure it was Ryder.

Dave.

that was a funny Dauphine from Landis. I think one-day he just decided not to ride, a GC mtn day, he came in with the autobus. Why? speculation existed previous, that is a blood phlebotomy. I think he just had his "test ride" for July, and backed off, not going into the red, knowing he had hit a power-weight and the sustainable threshold power or whatever acronym FTP, functional, and then backed off, not wishing to go into the red, and with his eyes on the prize in 5 weeks time, and not to undermine the main objective.

in that case, Ryder could have been in on the plan and told to ride for himself this day. Or, to go in a break, and still ride for himself, and maintain the ruse and try to pick up a result for himself.

 

[westerner]

Slightly OT, but I have wondered why Hesjedal wasn't selected for that Tour.

Bur maybe Landis was so well prepared that he didn't need any extra mountain help with an all-star team of Moerenhout, Merckx, Moos and Perdiguero

Perhaps the answer is here...

"Yeah, I mean there was always a possibility of riding it. I was riding and talking with the team and Floyd every day. It just came down to that point that they decided to go with a bit more experienced guys, but they were definitely pleased with how I was able to ride.

"They said straight up after the Dauphine, 'The Vuelta [Tour of Spain] is for you.' The whole part of being on a team is that they needed someone in the Vuelta.

http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=d6894314-eaaa-4b86-a10f-7e219e009e53&sponsor=

Strange though that Hesjedal said this year in an interview that he was only packfill on Postal and Phonak and thats why he did not need to keep on his mtn bike doping program when he was a roadie?

 

[Digger]

actually, remember that 2006 Dauphine, Floyd was either leading or second place on GC and he had a jour sans.

Now, he maight have had blood out. He might have chose not to ride that day, having tested his p/w the days before and content where his training/build was at, and did not want to do any more closer to the Tour, and start his taper then,

or or or... multiple reasons potential that were not a "jour sans" or hunger flat/bonk. And maybe this day, FL informed Ryder what was "up" and that he had to ride for Ryder that day, not ride for Floyd. /third person

There not the point. There is a claim made that landis said Ryder was clean at phonak. That's nonsense.

 

[Ferminal]

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...aughters-on-the-enigmatic-tom-danielson-64053
how were the true values of dopers like contador and vande velde measured exactly?
must be groundbreaking stuff indeed.

Dr ISM tested Contador when he was a teenager iirc, when he was supposedly clean. That was the reason why JV tried to sign him.

 

[sniper]

Dr ISM tested Contador when he was a teenager iirc, when he was supposedly clean. That was the reason why JV tried to sign him.

it was in 2003 when AC signed for ONCE where ISM worked.
AC would have been 20 or 21.

 

[blackcat]

There not the point. There is a claim made that landis said Ryder was clean at phonak. That's nonsense.

double nonsense i agree. nonsense ^2 squared.

Ryder prolly started this meme. Or JV72

 

[thehog]

There not the point. There is a claim made that landis said Ryder was clean at phonak. That's nonsense.

Which means he lied and should be suspended for 2 years. No SoL.

 

[will10]

Had a dig in the archives for the 2006 Dauphine as I thought that was the edition Astana won four stages with Vino and Kash looking ridiculous pre - Tour (that was actually 2007). I didn't spot anything crazy from Hesjedal in there but might've missed something.

Anyway, found this which was worth a laugh:

Not everyone rode that way up Mont Ventoux, obviously. Alexandre Vinokourov, Floyd Landis and George Hincapie looked like they were not trying their best, probably afraid of burning themselves instead of doing solid work in their lead up to the Tour de France. "I think they're coming all off a big break from racing," Leipheimer noticed. "At a point, they weren't pushing as hard as they could, that's what I think."

Exactly ten years ago, Bjarne Riis climbed the Ventoux 15 minutes behind Miguel Indurain, one month before taking him down from his throne at the Tour de France. There are a few people in modern cycling following the example of Riis' methods.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/jun06/dauphinelibere06/?id=results/dauphinelibere064

 

[sniper]

economist in cambridge Massachusetts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Porter

thanks, blackcat.
what/where did he write about Girona?
did a bit of a search, but couldn't find nothing.

 

[blackcat]

thanks, blackcat.
what/where did he write about Girona?
did a bit of a search, but couldn't find nothing.

he wrote nothing on doping.

 

[sniper]

he wrote nothing on doping.

ok, but you heard him speak about it?
a few pages back you said he spoke about a doping cluster in Girona.
that made me curious, but maybe i missed a pun or something?

 

[blackcat]

ok, but you heard him speak about it?
a few pages back you said he spoke about a doping cluster in Girona.
that made me curious, but maybe i missed a pun or something?

Porter wrote about clusters in economics

 

[sniper]

ok, must have missed the pun.

Porter spoke about the doping cluster in Girona.

he wrote nothing on doping.

Porter wrote about clusters in economics

blackcat, you're like a (tasty) box of chocolates...

 

[Granville57]

There not the point. There is a claim made that landis said Ryder was clean at phonak. That's nonsense.

Which means he lied and should be suspended for 2 years. No SoL.

I don't mean to speak for Digger, but I took his "nonsense" comment to be a dismissal of the claim the Floyd publicly said anything about Ryder being clean or not at Phonak.

Ryder's blood profile while at Phonak would be a different issue.

 

[doperhopper]

Had a dig in the archives for the 2006 Dauphine as I thought that was the edition Astana won four stages with Vino and Kash looking ridiculous pre - Tour (that was actually 2007). I didn't spot anything crazy from Hesjedal in there but might've missed something.

Anyway, found this which was worth a laugh:
Exactly ten years ago, Bjarne Riis climbed the Ventoux 15 minutes behind Miguel Indurain, one month before taking him down from his throne at the Tour de France. There are a few people in modern cycling following the example of Riis' methods.

well, believe it or not, even SuperBjarne cannot survive at 60% for too long

 

[ralphbert]

Anyway, found this which was worth a laugh:


http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/jun06/dauphinelibere06/?id=results/dauphinelibere064

Banking some blood no doubt.

 

[D-Queued]

There not the point. There is a claim made that landis said Ryder was clean at phonak. That's nonsense.

Hi Digger,

I am reasonably confident that Floyd did make a statement to that effect about Ryder.

For a long time, I mentally filed stuff away about Ryder knowing that one day the truth would come out. Floyd's comment (or not) is simply a very minor point, however.

One of the problems with statements from Floyd, especially post his decision to 'tell the truth' is that it appeared that he was still not telling the whole truth.

After the years of on-line battles we had over the Floyd case, and its nonsense of biblical proportion (FFF = Flood, Famine and Frogs), I was content to pull back and not pursue the little lies. Thus, I never made a big deal about this at the time.

Unfortunately, those that cataloged everything Floyd could probably provide us with the Ryder (and Merckx) quotes. Alas, they don't appear to have ever been truly interested in the truth, let alone verifying it.

Dave.

 

[Digger]

Hi Digger,

I am reasonably confident that Floyd did make a statement to that effect about Ryder.

For a long time, I mentally filed stuff away about Ryder knowing that one day the truth would come out. Floyd's comment (or not) is simply a very minor point, however.

One of the problems with statements from Floyd, especially post his decision to 'tell the truth' is that it appeared that he was still not telling the whole truth.

After the years of on-line battles we had over the Floyd case, and its nonsense of biblical proportion (FFF = Flood, Famine and Frogs), I was content to pull back and not pursue the little lies. Thus, I never made a big deal about this at the time.

Unfortunately, those that cataloged everything Floyd could probably provide us with the Ryder (and Merckx) quotes. Alas, they don't appear to have ever been truly interested in the truth, let alone verifying it.

Dave.

Firstly you are going back and forth...one day it was said by someone else on here, then you agree that person probably made it up, and then the above...what evidence is there that he said it...he did not say it.

Secondly when Floyd did tell the truth, specify where he was not telling the whole truth or give examples.

 

[MarkvW]

....Secondly when Floyd did tell the truth, specify where he was not telling the whole truth or give examples.

I'm sure Fraud's lawyers would want to have all his lies cataloged before trial (and it would be one BIG catalog)!

 

[Digger]

I'm sure Fraud's lawyers would want to have all his lies cataloged before trial (and it would be one BIG catalog)!

I am sure Floyd would be interested in your thoughts on him or if you had the balls to say this to him directly.

Secondly what lies did Floyd tell after he came clean?

 

[pmcg76]

Did Flyd win the Dauphine in 2002 as a clean rider or at a max on a testosterone patch? His claim is he only started doping at St.Moritz in June of 2002 at a pre-Tour training camp.