JV talks, sort of

[thehog]

Girona, Monaco, Freiburg, Madrid, Ferrara, Boulder. You can run a doping program anywhere.

Which was my original point and thank-you for finally agreeing with me. Because what causes dopers to come unstuck is the transportation of drugs to races, training locations etc. if a team is spread out in many cities/countries much more chance of them getting caught and bringing the operation down.

If you centre the drug use to one city like in football there is no need to move it to the games and in this case races. You can control and manage it from one location for several (GT) riders.

Managing a drug program across Europe is way too hard and costly not mention risky.

Cheers.

 

[sniper]

Maybe, but there are plenty of practical reasons to be in Girona. Great riding, hour from Barca, 20 min from the beach, short travel times to many races.

If a coworker offers a room to rent in Girona....take it.

Girona, Monaco, Freiburg, Madrid, Ferrara, Boulder. You can run a doping program anywhere.

yes, in isolation it means zilk (just like Tenerife and Sky would mean zilk if Sky hadn't also hired Leinders and turned a few donkeys into racehorses).
But if Garmin would want to ease their riders' acces to PEDs (imagine that happening in cycling!), Spain/Girona would be a logical choice and more logical than other places, given that ex-usps-ers like White, Lim, JV, Hesjedal, VdV, and Weltz would find it particularly easy to get connected there.
Doping without getting caught is about networking and logistics.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Which was my original point and thank-you for finally agreeing with me. Because what causes dopers to come unstuck is the transportation of drugs to races, training locations etc. if a team is spread out in many cities/countries much more chance of them getting caught and bringing the operation down.

Except many of their prominent riders do/have not live(d) in Girona.

 

[thehog]

Except many of their prominent riders do/have not live(d) in Girona.

Except they don't...

Tyler Farrer! LOL! Prominent?

The so called classics squad lives in Belgium, which makes perfect sense. 90% and all GT riders in Girona. It is what it is. Girona is where the team lives and operates from. Simple.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I may face ostracization for this, and I recognize the legitimate critique of the way the dopers at Garmin have been treated versus other dopers, but I still believe that Vaughters was sincerely (hopefully "is") trying to run his team differently, and provide a model for teams to not have to have organized doping programs.

Sure, some of his riders may have doped while on his team, but I believe he is sincere about his attempts to keep them from doing so. I don't buy that it was all just a clever marketing ploy, while behind the scenes he was advocating doping to win.

 

[blackcat]

could you expand? Who's Porter? (it's still early here)

economist in cambridge Massachusetts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Porter

 

[burning]

I may face ostracization for this, and I recognize the legitimate critique of the way the dopers at Garmin have been treated versus other dopers, but I still believe that Vaughters was sincerely (hopefully "is") trying to run his team differently, and provide a model for teams to not have to have organized doping programs.

Sure, some of his riders may have doped while on his team, but I believe he is sincere about his attempts to keep them from doing so. I don't buy that it was all just a clever marketing ploy, while behind the scenes he was advocating doping to win.

Since 2011, their major results consists of 1 big victory + stages in GT's for each year. While winning these races, his riders managed to look "normal". But he could not adress the spike of blood values of Ryder and Wiggo, which is a big minus in my book.

I do agree that they don't have a full program like Sky or Saxo, but I think it is like "Do your stuff however you like, but we will check you regularly that you dont look full ***".

 

[Benotti69]

Since 2011, their major results consists of 1 big victory + stages in GT's for each year. While winning these races, his riders managed to look "normal". But he could not adress the spike of blood values of Ryder and Wiggo, which is a big minus in my book.

I do agree that they don't have a full program like Sky or Saxo, but I think it is like "Do your stuff however you like, but we will check you regularly that you dont look full ***".

Garmin have 3 monument wins.

 

[burning]

Garmin have 3 monument wins.

I said for each year.

 

[sniper]

Since 2011, their major results consists of 1 big victory + stages in GT's for each year. While winning these races, his riders managed to look "normal". But he could not adress the spike of blood values of Ryder and Wiggo, which is a big minus in my book.

I do agree that they don't have a full program like Sky or Saxo, but I think it is like "Do your stuff however you like, but we will check you regularly that you dont look full ***".

Agreed.
Internal testing to make sure nobody trips the wire.
And staff (docs, physiologists and dss) who know the system in and out.

 

[D-Queued]

yes, in isolation it means zilk (just like Tenerife and Sky would mean zilk if Sky hadn't also hired Leinders and turned a few donkeys into racehorses).
But if Garmin would want to ease their riders' acces to PEDs (imagine that happening in cycling!), Spain/Girona would be a logical choice and more logical than other places, given that ex-usps-ers like White, Lim, JV, Hesjedal, VdV, and Weltz would find it particularly easy to get connected there.
Doping without getting caught is about networking and logistics.

As noted above, I am well aware of the Girona legacy.

HOWEVER, if we are talking about dopers frequenting their known doping connections and habitats then you need to remove Hesjedal from your indictment list or at least put an asterisk beside him.

He doped with the Chicken, and while living in BC. None of that doping was anywhere near Girona.

Some of his doping buddies also lived in close proximity to him at that time.

Thus, if you want to apply a known doping haunts allegation, then in the case of Ryder he and his Rasmussen-outed pals McGrath and Sheppard (famous for his absurd excuse about getting caught the next day after doping for the one and only time...) obviously had shared doping experiences that would have included connections in BC which is a long way away from Girona.

Dave.

 

[thehog]

As noted above, I am well aware of the Girona legacy.

HOWEVER, if we are talking about dopers frequenting their known doping connections and habitats then you need to remove Hesjedal from your indictment list or at least put an asterisk beside him.

He doped with the Chicken, and while living in BC. None of that doping was anywhere near Girona.

Some of his doping buddies also lived in close proximity to him at that time.

Thus, if you want to apply a known doping haunts allegation, then in the case of Ryder he and his Rasmussen-outed pals McGrath and Sheppard (famous for his absurd excuse about getting caught the next day after doping for the one and only time...) obviously had shared doping experiences that would have included connections in BC which is a long way away from Girona.

Dave.

Ryder the Slider was living in Girona when he was on Phonak.

Goodtimes back in those days! Text messages flying all over town when the the occasional tester showed up...

Thanksfully he kept his apartment even after he left. He could just move straight back in with Slipstream...what are the odds!?

Cleans with Phonak! LOL!

When Phonak folded, he returned to North America for 2007 (but, tellingly, didn’t give up his apartment in Girona). It was like going down to the minor leagues, but a good move in that he put himself in a position where he could shine in more prominent roles and get noticed.

http://ryderhesjedal.ca/the-making-of-a-hometown-cycling-hero-2/

 

[Granville57]

The byline is performance data can't be supplied because the pseudo scientists would misinterpret the datapoints. Then what? We get Eskimo fat, crazy adaptive physiology and tailwinds.

Sounds like a good title for a new book:


Eskimo fat, crazy adaptive physiology and tailwinds

A guide to professional cycling in the modern era

 

[Benotti69]

Sounds like a good title for a new book:


Eskimo fat, crazy adaptive physiology and tailwinds

A guide to professional cycling in the modern era

Eskimo fat, crazy adaptive physiology and tailwinds

A guide to professional cycling expressions for doping in the modern era

Fixed. FOC.............

 

[D-Queued]

Ryder the Slider was living in Girona when he was on Phonak.

Goodtimes back in those days! Text messages flying all over town when the the occasional tester showed up...

Thanksfully he kept his apartment even after he left. He could just move straight back in with Slipstream...what are the odds!?

Cleans with Phonak! LOL!



http://ryderhesjedal.ca/the-making-of-a-hometown-cycling-hero-2/

But didn't tattle-tale, tell-all Floyd tell us that Ryder wasn't doping at Phonak?

... and a big one of these...

Dave.

 

[blackcat]

As noted above, I am well aware of the Girona legacy.

HOWEVER, if we are talking about dopers frequenting their known doping connections and habitats then you need to remove Hesjedal from your indictment list or at least put an asterisk beside him.

He doped with the Chicken, and while living in BC. None of that doping was anywhere near Girona.

Some of his doping buddies also lived in close proximity to him at that time.

Thus, if you want to apply a known doping haunts allegation, then in the case of Ryder he and his Rasmussen-outed pals McGrath and Sheppard (famous for his absurd excuse about getting caught the next day after doping for the one and only time...) obviously had shared doping experiences that would have included connections in BC which is a long way away from Girona.

Dave.

basically cycling enclave = doping enclave = confirmation bias.

tho, even tho thats a fallacy, the inverse dynamic holds water/is true (should that be saline solution and placebo like frigo at milan airport?), lots of cyclists did skedaddle out of Nice and sou'France after 98. And in the early 2000s. became "a little hot", from wont of a pithier euphemism. when did jalabert nick off from France, and I aint talking his end of season cocaine and pot belge parties cos that was Cannes and cannes qua cannes innit.

so, Lauren Jalabert is nicknamed "le panda" and Tommy D is nicknames "le eskimo", are these some crazy anthropomorphised adaptative physiology chimera, or would the correct term be anthropomorphised adaptative physiology doppelganger? oh sorry, eskimos are inuit and homo sapiens. sry folks.

raises another question tho, do inuit eat panda bears?

 

[Digger]

But didn't tattle-tale, tell-all Floyd tell us that Ryder wasn't doping at Phonak?

... and a big one of these...

Dave.

When did he say this........

 

[sniper]

Ryder the Slider was living in Girona when he was on Phonak.

Goodtimes back in those days! Text messages flying all over town when the the occasional tester showed up...

Thanksfully he kept his apartment even after he left. He could just move straight back in with Slipstream...what are the odds!?

Cleans with Phonak! LOL!



http://ryderhesjedal.ca/the-making-of-a-hometown-cycling-hero-2/

good find.
makes perfect sense.

 

[sniper]

Hofer moved into the apartment in Girona, Spain, that Hesjedal symbolically refused to give up

from a symbolical pov: if, while going to Garmin, he wanted to cut ties with doping, wouldn't it be more appropriate to do exactly that: give up the appartment in Girona...
#sofullof****

 

[thehog]

http://thewalrus.ca/the-pain-principle/
from a symbolical pov: if, while going to Garmin, he wanted to cut ties with doping, wouldn't it be more appropriate to do exactly that: give up the appartment in Girona...
#sofullof****

Yes, on par with Allen Lim in terms of **** spinning.

Cleans at Phonak #lol

 

[casati]

El Bulli, opened only 6 months of the year. The owner closed it down. It was getting a million reservation requests per year.

Ferran is now running a school by invitation only but this maybe for another thread

 

[thehog]

Ferran is now running a school by invitation only but this maybe for another thread

Doesn't surprise me. He had 30 staff in the kitchen alone, all working for free as they wanted his name on their resume.

 

[D-Queued]

When did he say this........

A while ago now.

It might be almost impossible to search for, unfortunately.

It was mentioned in Floyd threads more than once.

The incident that seemed most incongruous was during the Dauphine when a soon-to-test-positive Floyd 'released' Ryder, who had been dragging Floyd around, to ride for himself. Ryder then went on to chase almost everyone down. Even known climbers like Hincapie if I remember correctly.

It was, in its way, an unbelievable foreshadow of an unbelievable performance yet to come from Floyd.

Pretty sure I noted the alien performance more than once. As this was prior to the Reasoned Decision, when Ryder's doping was made public, I did not take it much further than just to question the performance.

Floyd's comment about Ryder was mentioned during discussion of that Dauphine ride.

Dave.

 

[Digger]

A while ago now.

It might be almost impossible to search for, unfortunately.

It was mentioned in Floyd threads more than once.

The incident that seemed most incongruous was during the Dauphine when a soon-to-test-positive Floyd 'released' Ryder, who had been dragging Floyd around, to ride for himself. Ryder then went on to chase almost everyone down. Even known climbers like Hincapie if I remember correctly.

It was, in its way, an unbelievable foreshadow of an unbelievable performance yet to come from Floyd.

Pretty sure I noted the alien performance more than once. As this was prior to the Reasoned Decision, when Ryder's doping was made public, I did not take it much further than just to question the performance.

Floyd's comment about Ryder was mentioned during discussion of that Dauphine ride.

Dave.

You know what I would challenge you to go back and seek this out - because there is no way landis said this - and if it was posted, then the original poster made it up.

 

[D-Queued]

You know what I would challenge you to go back and seek this out - because there is no way landis said this - and if it was posted, then the original poster made it up.

My thought exactly!

Now, I could also be confusing a statement about Axel Merckx, but I am pretty sure it was Ryder.

Dave.