• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

JV talks, sort of

Page 303 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
blackcat said:
yep hog, unique physiology, eskimo, inuit innit?

not even 25% or 12.5% or 50%. Genetically engineered to store fat, 20% inuit. Garmin, code for genetic engineering

Well, there you go. I'd thought is heard it all but clearly not. I just don't wear enough argyle.

zamp.jpg
 
Digger said:
It's awesome.
"When Tom eats carbohydrate, his body wants to just use it up as fuel, then shut down, and store all the fat ingested as body mass. I suppose this is to protect against arctic winds"


You see this and gaimon's tweet about some being better than others and it's a joke. A complete farce.

It makes you wonder. The byline is performance data can't be supplied because the pseudo scientists would misinterpret the datapoints. Then what? We get Eskimo fat, crazy adaptive physiology and tailwinds. No wonder they won't release data is it would sift out the BS.

This isn't direct solely at Garmin but Sky haven't helped either.
 
blackcat said:
yep hog, unique physiology, eskimo, inuit innit?

not even 25% or 12.5% or 50%. Genetically engineered to store fat, 20% inuit. Garmin, code for genetic engineering

The funny and sad thing about this is that you cannot mathematically "be" 20% anything...
 
Granville57 said:
While I don't disagree that JV is "selling" a product (his product), I don't think the above statement is entirely fair.

In that interview, he left it up to anyone with half a brain to read between the lines that his record performance up Ventoux was the result of doping. He didn't say it explicitly, but he sure as hell laid out the premise.

But I think we're in agreement overall.

Agree on the Ventoux insight.

Agree that JV is selling his product. And he should be.

Where I diverge from others is that I don't see JV as evil incarnate.

The best salespeople are those that believe in their products. I am not convinced that JV is trying to deliberately hide things or is making up fairy tales about non-doping.

I can begrudgingly acknowledge that he may have been overenthusiastic at times and history has undermined various comments.

Trying to imagin being in his shoes, though, it isn't clear how anyone else could succeed.

He has to believe in his team, its members, their mission, and their opportunity.

He also has to still like, or more appropriately love, professional cycling, even as 'cancer' riddled as it is.

He has to hang out with people, and even ride in the same car with them, that I can't be in the same building during Interbike with, and somehow not have to run for a cleansing shower immediately.

That has to be difficult.

He may not be perfect, but it is hard to imagine that if someone were running a clean program, or at least trying to, how they could actually be much better than he has been.

Dave.
 
Mar 13, 2009
16,854
1
0
Visit site
D-Queued said:
Agree on the Ventoux insight.

Agree that JV is selling his product. And he should be.

Where I diverge from others is that I don't see JV as evil incarnate.

The best salespeople are those that believe in their products. I am not convinced that JV is trying to deliberately hide things or is making up fairy tales about non-doping.

I can begrudgingly acknowledge that he may have been overenthusiastic at times and history has undermined various comments.

Trying to imagin being in his shoes, though, it isn't clear how anyone else could succeed.

He has to believe in his team, its members, their mission, and their opportunity.

He also has to still like, or more appropriately love, professional cycling, even as 'cancer' riddled as it is.

He has to hang out with people, and even ride in the same car with them, that I can't be in the same building during Interbike with, and somehow not have to run for a cleansing shower immediately.

That has to be difficult.

He may not be perfect, but it is hard to imagine that if someone were running a clean program, or at least trying to, how they could actually be much better than he has been.

Dave.

i personally dont mind be sold a pup, cos like you, i appreciate the predicament.

but that wont stop me having fun with it.

re fairytaies about non-doping. p'raps not fairytales. But Grimm Bros. He certainly flirts with ambiguity on fairytales. machine calibration errors MCE abound.
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
2
0
Visit site
D-Queued said:
Agree on the Ventoux insight.

Agree that JV is selling his product. And he should be.

Where I diverge from others is that I don't see JV as evil incarnate.

The best salespeople are those that believe in their products. I am not convinced that JV is trying to deliberately hide things or is making up fairy tales about non-doping.

I can begrudgingly acknowledge that he may have been overenthusiastic at times and history has undermined various comments.

Trying to imagin being in his shoes, though, it isn't clear how anyone else could succeed.

He has to believe in his team, its members, their mission, and their opportunity.

He also has to still like, or more appropriately love, professional cycling, even as 'cancer' riddled as it is.

He has to hang out with people, and even ride in the same car with them, that I can't be in the same building during Interbike with, and somehow not have to run for a cleansing shower immediately.

That has to be difficult.
Dave.
I'm on the brink of asking if you've been following the thread at all?
How many times has he been caught out lying about, or simply ignoring questions wrt, small but highly relevant details which could point to doping on his team.
He's also claimed in several interviews that his internal testing shows his riders are clean. But then why doesn't he publish the data or show it to Ashenden?
He speaks of calibration errors but doesn't double check those data and seems to straight out lie about the background of those errors, all suggesting he knows there is doping on his team.

More generally, with his history, how can he be ignorant of a guy like Wiggins and doping? He cannot. So JV saying he knows 100% Wiggins was clean at Garmin is selling fairy tales.
I'm not exaggerating when I say there are dozens of other contradictions and half truths, etc. pointed out in this thread, as well as a shipload of unanswered questions about those contradictions and half-truths.

He may not be perfect, but it is hard to imagine that if someone were running a clean program, or at least trying to, how they could actually be much better than he has been.
it seems not that hard.
 
Mar 13, 2009
16,854
1
0
Visit site
sniper said:
it's not hard at all.
thats cos it is fiction, a fantasy.

JV could never get a team up, if they sucked @rse like Vacansoleil or whatever they were called.


He needs to give his riders, a wide enough berth, to get results. Like the Don Catlin quote about allowing athletes some distance when the are looking to peak for World Champs and Olympics.

doublespeak gets a little funny at times, but if it was possible to have a team race on equal terms, i would extend credit that JV would attempt this.
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
2
0
Visit site
blackcat said:
thats cos it is fiction, a fantasy.

JV could never get a team up, if they sucked @rse like Vacansoleil or whatever they were called.


He needs to give his riders, a wide enough berth, to get results. Like the Don Catlin quote about allowing athletes some distance when the are looking to peak for World Champs and Olympics.

doublespeak gets a little funny at times, but if it was possible to have a team race on equal terms, i would extend credit that JV would attempt this.
see what you mean and i agree.

i just think there are good reasons to disagree with D-queued's suggestion that JV honestly believes his Garmin is and always has been 100% clean.
If he really did believe that, why would he be in need of so many half truths, small lies, sceptical posters/twitterers on ignore, so much intransparency.
Doesn't add up...at all.
 
Mar 13, 2009
16,854
1
0
Visit site
sniper said:
see what you mean and i agree.

i just think there are good reasons to disagree with D-queued's suggestion that JV honestly believes his Garmin is and always has been 100% clean.
If he really did believe that, why would he be in need of so many half truths, small lies, sceptical posters/twitterers on ignore, so much intransparency.
Doesn't add up...at all.
but its a fair devil's advocate.

cos fairness, we have all weighed in pretty hard on JV

been fun tho!
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
2
0
Visit site
DirtyWorks said:
Ok, maybe brilliant isn't the best word.

If I had JV-like nonsense spewing skills I can't calculate the time I could save in meetings about 'the cloud' or whatever tech fad c-level folks are being sold in any given year.

Better still, I'd make a killing selling c-level folks their latest IT fad and leave the admins with the problems of supporting another completely over promised solution.
fair points.

and if he has managed to draw one of my favorite posters, D-Queued, into the 'believers' camp, then brilliant might just be the adequate word after all.
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
D-Queued said:
Agree on the Ventoux insight.

Agree that JV is selling his product. And he should be.

Where I diverge from others is that I don't see JV as evil incarnate.

Not remembering anyone calling JV 'evil incarnate', but his selling pups and being called out on it is par for the course in here. Same for Sky. Dont see Lefevere selling clean cycling?

D-Queued said:
The best salespeople are those that believe in their products. I am not convinced that JV is trying to deliberately hide things or is making up fairy tales about non-doping.

Some people let the product sell itself, if it is good people will hear about it and want it! But JV attaches himself to his product so he is definitely fluffing his own ego with his sales pitch.

D-Queued said:
I can begrudgingly acknowledge that he may have been overenthusiastic at times and history has undermined various comments.

It is called ego.

D-Queued said:
Trying to imagin being in his shoes, though, it isn't clear how anyone else could succeed.

Why does he have to attach the 'clean' schtick to his sales? Others dont and get on with the business of racing in WT.

D-Queued said:
He has to believe in his team, its members, their mission, and their opportunity.

Considering he has been through over 80 personnel it is hard to fathom that he believes in anyone but himself.

D-Queued said:
He also has to still like, or more appropriately love, professional cycling, even as 'cancer' riddled as it is.

He has to hang out with people, and even ride in the same car with them, that I can't be in the same building during Interbike with, and somehow not have to run for a cleansing shower immediately.

That has to be difficult.

Have you considered that JV might be part of the cancer, another tumour, who happens to be really good at avoiding detection. So he actually has no problem being in the sport, in fact if you red his twitter feed he revels in the sport. His big love in with Oleg was puke inducing and points to a guy loving it rather than biting his tongue. JV has boasted in here he doesn't need to be in the sport to make a living, in fact he could make more $$$$ in other fields, yet he is in the cesspit that is cycling by choice and telling everyone his team is clean, winning GTs and Monuments! hahaha!

D-Queued said:
He may not be perfect, but it is hard to imagine that if someone were running a clean program, or at least trying to, how they could actually be much better than he has been.

How can a clean program beat doping teams programs to a GT and monuments?

JV has so far sailed through the dirty waters but it cannot last. But i guess he has invested in a factory of teflon for when the sh!t does hit the fan.
 
blackcat said:
thats cos it is fiction, a fantasy.

JV could never get a team up, if they sucked @rse like Vacansoleil or whatever they were called.


He needs to give his riders, a wide enough berth, to get results. Like the Don Catlin quote about allowing athletes some distance when the are looking to peak for World Champs and Olympics.

doublespeak gets a little funny at times, but if it was possible to have a team race on equal terms, i would extend credit that JV would attempt this.

Cyclings dope problem has always been one of logistics. It's remoteness and moving from small town to small down makes doping a planning & shipment exercise.

Real Madrid can safely dope its players at HQ before they fly out/travel to the next game. No dope carrying.

Garmin's model of having all riders in one town which Sky took on Tiede & now Nice works a treat.
 
IzzyStradlin said:

not really all

Hesjedal
VDV
Millar
Danielson
Talansky
The Meiers
D.Martin
Dennis
Haas
Von Hoff
Gaimon
Zabriskie

and many others live or lived in Girona
 
pastronef said:
not really all

Hesjedal
VDV
Millar
Danielson
Talansky
The Meiers
D.Martin
Dennis

and many others live or lived in Girona

Yes, all GT riders in one town. Slipstreams European operation is there.

The city of Girona, Spain, where the Garmin-Slipstream team makes its European home, and the Cycling Federation of Catalana rolled out the red carpet for the squad in an official welcome today.

The day’s events kicked off in the morning with an honorary ride where stage 6 of the Tour de France will start this summer. Later in the day they hosted a lunch for the team at a great restaurant in Girona and presented the riders with a traditional Catalan gift, a jamon. Members of the team met the mayor and other local government officials and did interviews with several local media, including Catalan TV.

“We’re excited to have met everyone, grateful for the events, and can’t wait to make Girona proud this summer during the Tour,” said director sportif Jonathan Vaughters. “We have 20 riders plus the majority of our staff that call Girona home. That is totally unique in cycling, but we are a family and we consider Girona part of that family.”

http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2009/05/04/garmin-slipstream-is-welcomed-home-with-jamon/
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
IzzyStradlin said:
But plenty of prominent riders live elsewhere. And always have.

dont want to share their marginal gains..........

I remember Rebellin claimed to be living in Monaco, but the Guardia di Finanza proved otherwise and he had to cough up a few million euro...