JV talks, sort of

[blackcat]

lol, jv aint blocked me. in fact, he often answers my tweets taking satirical asides

 

[Benotti69]

Maybe JV can answer how Dan Martin beat a EPO and testoterone popping Mauricio Santambrogio to the Giro Dell Toscana a while ago?... i wont hold my breadth.

 

[thehog]

“In 100 years that will still be true. Did Ryder win the Giro 100 per cent clean? Yes, and that will still be the case in 100 years, 1000 years from now. But what other people do, I can’t say. I’m not saying it doesn’t matter but what matters to me is that we won a Grand Tour and did it clean. That’s an important statement. I know definitively that you couldn’t win the Giro clean in 1996 but it was done in 2012. Maybe some guys are still cheating but you can still win some damn big races now and that wasn’t the case 15 years ago. Let’s keep pursuing perfection but the improvements made are massive. It’s a different world and I wish more people would understand that. It makes me sad sometimes that they don’t.”

April Fools?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Am I the only one thinking - what exactly does he mean by, "Win clean" - does he mean that the BP shows what we expect? And the time line thing, extrapolated out to 1000 years because clearly that matters, because people won't find the drug used (ala Froome and his confidence) or because samples get destroyed now if the BP looks right?

 

[Benotti69]

Am I the only one thinking - what exactly does he mean by, "Win clean" - does he mean that the BP shows what we expect? And the time line thing, extrapolated out to 1000 years because clearly that matters, because people won't find the drug used (ala Froome and his confidence) or because samples get destroyed now if the BP looks right?

I guess all of that and more.

 

[Digger]

if I step back and ask myself if we went about things in the right way or wrong way from 2004 onwards from an ethical standpoint, then I think the answer is yes. No, I know the answer is yes. Did we make choices that some may not like or some don’t understand, sure, but for me and Doug, we did the best we could and we can sleep at night.

.............

 

[the sceptic]

April Fools?

but what about 10000 years from now?

 

[DirtyWorks]

April Fools?

Let’s keep pursuing perfection but the improvements made are massive. It’s a different world and I wish more people would understand that. It makes me sad sometimes that they don’t.”

This guy is brilliant. Apparently someone at the UCI recognized the same thing and kept him around.

 

[Benotti69]

Let’s keep pursuing perfection but the improvements made are massive. It’s a different world and I wish more people would understand that. It makes me sad sometimes that they don’t.”

This guy is brilliant. Apparently someone at the UCI recognized the same thing and kept him around.

Yep JV staying on message. Improvements are so huge that Ferrari was able to work away unabated, Contador still winning, Piti better than before his ban and all those other enablers still in the sport bar a few reasoned decision and even then only Bruyneel is the really the only one prevented from working in cycling.

JV still warbling the snakeoil salesmans schtick.

 

[thehog]

but what about 10000 years from now?

They will exhume the dead body of Hesjedal and with the technology of the year 10,014 we'll find out he doped.

The only issue is the Y10k problem so the machine might be calibrated properly due to the 5 digit date.

 

[Digger]

They will exhume the dead body of Hesjedal and with the technology of the year 10,014 we'll find out he doped.

The only issue is the Y10k problem so the machine might be calibrated properly due to the 5 digit date.

Genius...

The interview was amazing.

 

[Granville57]

Perhaps some background is needed at this point. Cyclingnews has been requesting an interview with Vaughters for several months. We’re not the only publication to do so and we’re not the only one that has been held at arm’s length.

I do wonder about Benson's definition of "several," because JV was chiming in here, in The Clinic, just four months ago.

I guess you just need to know where to look for your information.

 

[sniper]

Benson asked the right questions, especially wrt 2006.
JV didn't answer, instead started using the old lines again.
All I need to know.

Wiggins 2009 clean?
Hesjedal 2012 clean?
Martin various monuments, clean?
Talansky, Danielson, VDV, clean?
you gotta live on some planet to believe that ****.

JV in need of hyperboles to convince Benson is another give away.
I'm starting to see similarities with Paula Radcliffe here.

 

[sniper]

btw, does anybody know if Shane Stokes is still on Garmin's bandwagon?
I recently saw an article/blog of his from 2010 (or thereabouts) where he was sweettalking Garmin and claimed they do additional 'independent' testing on their riders.

But I also seem to remember he exchanged some not-so-friendly tweets with Vaughters more recently...

 

[mewmewmew13]

btw, does anybody know if Shane Stokes is still on Garmin's bandwagon?
I recently saw an article/blog of his from 2010 (or thereabouts) where he was sweettalking Garmin and claimed they do additional 'independent' testing on their riders.

But I also seem to remember he exchanged some not-so-friendly tweets with Vaughters more recently...

Shane does his job. He asks the questions that need to be asked.

 

[thehog]

btw, does anybody know if Shane Stokes is still on Garmin's bandwagon?
I recently saw an article/blog of his from 2010 (or thereabouts) where he was sweettalking Garmin and claimed they do additional 'independent' testing on their riders.

But I also seem to remember he exchanged some not-so-friendly tweets with Vaughters more recently...

Yes, Vaughters tried to outrank him on the MBA when they'll debating exercise physiology saying he knew better.

Shane's response was priceless....

"I have a Masters in Exercise Physiology"

Silence..

 

[nayr497]

The nature of cycling tactics is a huge part of enforcing omerta.

As a clean pro you're not likely a GT or Classics contender. Most of your results are going to come at the mercy of the strong teams, breakaways or tactical situations. If you're outspoken, a team can easily ride against you to prevent you from getting in breaks, or chasing later in the race. GTs often see guys riding the front for no particular (tactical) reason.

Or, as a clean rider you're a nice guy, loyal domestique who supports a GT/Classics contender. Sure you might be clean, but your employment depends on keeping the faster, probably doped rider happy. And your boss on the road doesn't want to deal with team punishing him because a teammate is stirred up sh!t.

And if you're known as a valuable domestique, who knows where you might end up? I mean, look at Pate cashing checks from Sky. Best to not burn bridges before you get to them.

There are plenty of good practical reasons to just shut up and ride.

Thanks for the explanation. Yeah...I knew a lot of these, I guess I was just being a bit dopey. If there is a lot of money involved, things are different. I didn't play a revenue sport in college.

 

[DirtyWorks]

btw, does anybody know if Shane Stokes is still on Garmin's bandwagon?
I recently saw an article/blog of his from 2010 (or thereabouts) where he was sweettalking Garmin and claimed they do additional 'independent' testing on their riders.

In theory this is true. My recollection is he's using Exum, so he doesn't have a perfectly docile technical lead. JV could have gone with any number of very compliant PhD's floating around the periphery of elite sports.

This is why JV is so good at his job. If the brown stuff ever hit the fan he can wave his hands and shout about testing with Exum the USOC troublemaker/whistleblower to deflect the controversy. It seems like the UCI likes him too much for that to happen.

 

[Granville57]

Yes, Vaughters tried to outrank him on the MBA when they'll debating exercise physiology saying he knew better.

Shane's response was priceless....

"I have a Masters in Exercise Physiology"

Silence..

Seems that convo from June has been scrubbed from the web.

There was this though:

Jonathan Vaughters

@SSbike I hope you didn't pay too much for that degree, mate.... If you need definition of 'efficiency'

Speaking of Shane tweeting about Vaughters speaking...
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/other-sports/cycling-spoke-in-the-wheel-as-failed-drug-tests-show-work-is-still-to-be-done.26123041

"Well I can't vouch for every single rider in the entire peleton," says Vaughters. "But what I can vouch for is that I am absolutely 100% sure that the riders I have are clean. I am looking at their blood profiles and they are very stable and I am looking at all the physiological and haematological factors. They all are indicative of an absolutely clean rider.

"And they are winning races and they are winning races on the world scale. Quite frankly, if there was an effective method of doping like EPO or blood transfusions or whatever, that was really changing the face of the sport like what happened in the 1990s, they wouldn't be able to win. It would be impossible. So, by default, you come to the conclusion that the peleton must have cleaned up, to a certain degree."

The Astana situation is another matter and one that troubles Vaughters. Admitting his own past makes it difficult to point fingers at Vinokourov, he thinks for a moment before saying: "If I had, what is it? five riders now on my team test positive for various elements like Vinokourov has, if that happened to me, considering my personal history, I should be banned from the sport forever," he says. "There is no excuse for a manager to allow that to occur in his organisation. And if he says 'I didn't know about it' or 'it was done behind my back', that's fine, but you still have to be removed. I hold myself to that, especially considering my history."

 

[sniper]

I wasn't aware (or had already forgotten) that Garmin hired a certain Don Catlin to do the internal testing in 2008/9.

You gotta be kidding me.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/clean-sky-on-the-horizon

 

[blackcat]

I wasn't aware (or had already forgotten) that Garmin hired a certain Don Catlin to do the internal testing in 2008/9.

You gotta be kidding me.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/clean-sky-on-the-horizon

catlin yesalis hoberman savulescu hardie frost goldman

 

[sniper]

catlin yesalis hoberman savulescu hardie frost goldman

fair point

anyway, i hope i'm wrong but I'm afraid Garmin appointing Catlin speaks volumes of what the real intentions of their internal testing program were.
Perception, reality, and all that.

 

[del1962]

What is the story on Catlin other than he was supposed to have a test programme for Lance on his comeback that never happened.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/sports/othersports/12cycling.html?_r=0

We respect Don, but it became apparent that there would be so many drug testers at Lance’s door that they would be tripping over each other

That quite made me smile

EDIT: I see allegations of a cover up of high testo levels by his lab in 90s, possibly Lances

 

[blackcat]

What is the story on Catlin other than he was supposed to have a test programme for Lance on his comeback that never happened.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/sports/othersports/12cycling.html?_r=0



That quite made me smile

EDIT: I see allegations of a cover up of high testo levels by his lab in 90s, possibly Lances

he re-tested the drug test samples for research purposes a few years later, for T&F trials for the 1984 LA Olympics. so 88ish retesting for research. Much like how those Belgians retested Armstrongs 99 samples, or was it Swiss boffins, they got hold of the urine from 99 for research.


Anq\way, Catlin

he got hold of the LA aths trials samples. And the testing was glowing like a blue velvet dress of Monica Lewinsky under a CSI bluelight with bubba's seed.

And Catlin then put the kibosh on the testing when he was seeing the results, he said, lets not go there cos bubba has spread his seed wide and far. ok, so thats a very torture metaphor and the tangent does not even make sense. except bubba's sex life is funny.

so thats the Catlin record. And JV knows it.

oh, and the other Catlin quote, he said that the American athletes need to be given a "wide berth" when preparing for competitions like the Olympics so that can compete on even-ish terms without one hand tied behind their back.

 

[sniper]

What is the story on Catlin other than he was supposed to have a test programme for Lance on his comeback that never happened.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/sports/othersports/12cycling.html?_r=0

That quite made me smile

EDIT: I see allegations of a cover up of high testo levels by his lab in 90s, possibly Lances

that's just part of the story.
I would assume Catlin (and his son Oliver) has been on the receiving end of more than just a couple of brown envelopes and that he's been involved in cover ups throughout his carreer.
And the very fact that he got even close to monitoring Lance's program tells you all you need to know.
Anybody with half a brain and connections in the world of cycling would have known in 2009 that Lance was a big time doper.