JV talks, sort of

[DirtyWorks]

Many of them dropped down to Continetal level so its not like they can fall much further. Why would they feel the need to protect JV or his team?

To get a job in the WT. Or, when it comes time to hang up the wheels, get a job on the sports administration side.

 

[Benotti69]

This idea that JV upsets riders so they tell about doping is a joke.

Who squealed on Lefevere, Martinelli, Rihs, Vino and all these other teams?

It took the feds to make most in the reasoned decision tell the truth!

A rider only tells when they are backed into a corner. Everyone in the sport knows that if they open their mouths about a team they will never get back in the sport.

Look at Di Luca, he got targeted for opening his mouth against RCS and breaking omerta.

If anything the Russian doping 99% of their athletes and recent Astana and Padua investigations again show the sport has not changed its bad habits and to think a rider can win over 3 weeks or a bgi race like a monument when guys are spending $10,000s to dope to win these races is laughable at best.

I aint gonna spend a big chunk of my wages to dope to not be competitive in the big important races FFS!!!

Sorry, JV has really got some people believing the BS.

Remember he didn't know where Wiggins was for most 2009 and Wiggins dodgy blood value at '09 TdF was 'machine calibration error', then he wants to sign Contador and lets not forget Hesjedal, for whom the dope never worked , and who only admitted to doping after Rasmussen let that cat out of the bag, wins a Giro beating all Ferrari's riders and has some blood anomalies as well, again explained away by talk only of a 'machine calibration error'!

Anti doping testing doesn't work even still in 2014, unless UCI wants it too.

Garmin dope and do it very well. That is what Johnnyboy spends all that money internally testing his boys for.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I think the problem with a rider getting annoyed with JV and outing the doping on the team is flawed in that the rider being annoyed is probably equally guilty.

ie the assumption that Rider A could out Rider B and get away with the reputation intact seems misguided.

 

[ray j willings]

I don't know how JV does it. He has some boys over on the BR forum think he is the best thing to happen to clean up cycling. One even posted that he confessed to doping way back. I pointed out he never confessed. You have to say who you are. In fact JV Again confessed to the NY times but once again forgot to mention his name. Riders only cough up if forced to. All those Armstrong linked riders [JV included] only coughed up under oath. prison is a waiting if they perjure. I don't know of a rider who has confessed of free will while still racing. You would be an idiot to confess.

 

[ralphbert]

Just like Tyler working with Cecchini and Fuentes.

Are you suggesting Vino is like a pillmill junky who goes to multiple doctors to double up on therapy? Ha ha, that would be funny

 

[pmcg76]

To get a job in the WT. Or, when it comes time to hang up the wheels, get a job on the sports administration side.

I am not talking about going public, I am talking about the type of rumour mill where Digger/Race Radio get information. Where some of our other posters like D-Queued get their info, the whole Ryder thing seemed to be quite common knowledge in Canada long before it happened. Just the other day RR said he heard second hand that Ferrari was not at that Astana training camp. That type of stuff.

Hell, I have heard pros say stuff without even being prompted in a private scenario far away from camera's or recording devices. Put those devices in front of them and they shut up.

Team-mates gossip to each other like the JV/Frankie Andreu thing. Even JV has said the pro ranks are like a Girls high-school class such is the gossiping. Of course it happens so when guys drop down to continental level or stop completely, you think they don't ever mention what happened when they were in the sport. A guy dropping from WT level back to a small US domestic team. You don't think team-mates ask them what they witnessed when they were there.

To date I am aware of 2 rumours re Garmin that have done the rounds, one was of a rider having drugs at an early training camp and being warned to get rid or be fired, the other is of a rider failing an internal test and being let go as a result. Both riders were star names. Both there rumours were put to JV by others on here and denied of course. Even if true, they would actually suggest that Garmin were at least serious about their policies.

Another example of a rumour was about a rider(non-Garmin) who tested postitive after having their food spiked by someone was was ****ed at them. Sounds totally fictitious but that was the rumour doing the rounds as the rider in question was considered a genuine clean athlete.

At this stage I must be aware of 5-10 sources mentioning how JV treats his riders, none are very positive yet very few of those snippets went through official sources like the media. They all seem to echo each other as well, JV is a real ****** but is serious about the anti-doping thing. I know a few other posters here who have heard the same stories.

There is the public media avenue for info and then there is the lower level rumour/gossip mill. This is the level I am referring too when I mean no stories emerging. Garmin must have passed 80 riders through their hands by now and for there to be so few rumours when there are so many guys ****ed at Garmin seems strange.

 

[Ferminal]

That is why looking at it through a team lens is silly. Most of the run-of-the-mill dopers who end up at Slipstream go terribly (e.g. Fischer, Haussler) but that's no reason to say that individuals or groupings haven't got themselves organised.

 

[Benotti69]

The idea that a lack of rumours equates to a clean team is as dismissable as as rumours meaning a dirty team.

Yet Garmin DS, Matt White sent rider Trent Lowe to Pedro Celaya(IIRC). Which JV nipped in the bud.

JV has never been totally honest, he showed that when asked about USPS doping over the years with story changing from nothing to see to full blown doping, he told a different story in court to the one told to Walsh about a conversation with Frankie, he waited for SOL before doing anything about his own doping......

JV plays a very smart game. He says time will show he was running a clean team, but by then he will have made his money and be long gone laughing at how he duped the always ready to be duped cycling fans.

I still dont see how clean riders can challenge for big wins when so many are spending $10,000s to dope to get those wins. No way can someone win a 3 week race clean when guys like Ferrari are still doping riders.

As for 1 day races, a clean guy might get lucky but so many things would have to conspire against those who 'prepared' for the race. I dont see a clean guy staying all day with dopers and then in the final kms dropping them for the win. IMO not possible, especially when guys are paying up to half their salaries to get a big win!!!!

 

[Benotti69]

Here's another question? How come Garmin are able to beat say the team that employs Riccò's doctor, who had the most victories of all teams in 2014?

Do Garmin riders train harder than doping ones?

Do they have better diet nutrition than doped riders?

Apparently the pro peloton gossip like a girls school so everyone knows everyones diets and training regimes. Heck most teams have riders who train with other teams all the time. Girona full of riders from different teams out riding together.

So the difference has to be what it usually turns out to be, best response to a 'program'.

If i was a clean rider getting dropped, beaten, thrashed by the doped ones, i would either leave, dope or start calling out the dopers. But to sit in silence is not a rational response.

Where is Talanksy now? He called Di Luca all the names under the sun! But now, zip.

 

[Unsytherhino]

If i was a clean rider getting dropped, beaten, thrashed by the doped ones, i would either leave, dope or start calling out the dopers. But to sit in silence is not a rational response.

Libel laws and lawyer fees suck.

 

[Benotti69]

Libel laws and lawyer fees suck.

Some people dont fear the truth.

 

[pmcg76]

Some people dont fear the truth.

Like?.....an by like I mean people who called out dopers when they were still actively competing.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

It is poor, poor form to leave riders in limbo but maybe there is a Machivallian reasoning behind it.

Or, perhaps, omerta is still in place...

 

[The Hitch]

Like?.....an by like I mean people who called out dopers when they were still actively competing.

Marco Pinotti.

 

[D-Queued]

I am not talking about going public, I am talking about the type of rumour mill where Digger/Race Radio get information. Where some of our other posters like D-Queued get their info, the whole Ryder thing seemed to be quite common knowledge in Canada long before it happened.

...

Hell, I have heard pros say stuff without even being prompted in a private scenario far away from camera's or recording devices. Put those devices in front of them and they shut up.

...

To date I am aware of 2 rumours re Garmin that have done the rounds, one was of a rider having drugs at an early training camp and being warned to get rid or be fired, the other is of a rider failing an internal test and being let go as a result. Both riders were star names.

...

Garmin must have passed 80 riders through their hands by now and for there to be so few rumours when there are so many guys ****ed at Garmin seems strange.

Good points all.

How do I get info? That is a really good question. All the good info I have received just came to me, and I didn't go looking for it.

That was the biggest surprise of all.

Which leads to the conclusion, 'if I know this then what else is going on'?

Your Garmin rumors make sense. It seemed logical long ago that something had to have happened, or almost certainly would happen in the future.

Agree very strongly with your last point.

Dave.

 

[pmcg76]

Marco Pinotti.

Marco Pinotti as in finished in the Top 10 of the Giro Marco Pinotti. Better tell Di Luca. Who did he call out Hitch, I don't recall.

Yes had a reputation as a clean rider but try convincing some of the posters of that.

Pinotti was once asked to pick his dream team for a cycling team, there was an undercurrent of picking a cleanish team. So team leader was, drum roll please.....Cadel Evans.

Bertogliati, Vanotti were also on the team, cannot remember who else.

 

[Benotti69]

Like?.....an by like I mean people who called out dopers when they were still actively competing.

Did Saint Millar call out Saunier Duvall, at least Peipoli and Ricco when he rode for them?

When someone claims to have dedicated their life to anti-doping and they remain silent on another big doping scandal, it points to nothing but their lies.

Vaughters knows enough about libel laws in order to word his statement to avoid litigation.

 

[the delgados]

I remember JV stating that results didn't matter when announcing his new cycling project. He said he didn't care if his riders lost races, as long as they did it clean.
I generally have no idea what I'm talking about, but wouldn't it have been great if they actually highlighted races they lost and passed results of last place finishes on to the press? I mean, if they knew riders were still doping?
Then they truly would have been seen as the cool guys, and everyone else would have tried to emulate them. Unless you're a libertarian, everyone loves the underdog. We'd see scenes of riders crashing themselves and purposefully puncturing their tires in order to finish last. Hell, even Astana would have tried to get in on the act.
Ok, I just got carried away there. But it's just a thought.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I remember JV stating that results didn't matter when announcing his new cycling project. He said he didn't care if his riders lost races, as long as they did it clean.

He also said you can ask him anything about anything, any time.

How times have changed.

 

[Granville57]

This seems to be nothing new for JV. A lot of guys have left or been cut from that team feeling very ****ed at the way things were handled. In fact there seem to be very few who leave Garmin on great terms and that is something I have heard from numerous sources.

After hearing about guys at Garmin who rarely heard or saw JV, I have to wonder if any of them were ever jealous of the time JV spent in The Clinic.

Maybe they should've signed up with CN forums. Would've had a better chance at direct interaction.

Imagine?

JV, Just so you know, Floyd is about to go nuclear...again.

JV, we need to talk. There's something I did you should probably know about.

JV, why aren't you returning my calls? Am I going to the Tour or not?

JV, Do we have to use certified team mechanics, or can I bring my own guy?

JV, what say we look into a new tyre sponsor?

JV, Perhaps you could learn to the correct way to pronounce "Gaimon"? Just a thought.

Hey JV, what's the name of that big race in France again?

 

[pmcg76]

After hearing about guys at Garmin who rarely heard or saw JV, I have to wonder if any of them were ever jealous of the time JV spent in The Clinic.

Maybe they should've signed up with CN forums. Would've had a better chance at direct interaction.

Imagine?

Maybe instead of doing a Masters, JV should have went to the local community college to do a diploma in communications instead.

 

[nayr497]

I know it's a different sport that I never competed at in the highest ranks but...

I played a Div. I sport in college on a scholarship. Not big time in the U.S. but I loved it and gave it my all.

I sure as heck know if I thought someone was cheating or doping I'd have a word with them and definitely with the officials. Still confused why so many felt they had to go along and dope or had to keep silent.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Still confused why so many felt they had to go along and dope or had to keep silent.

The nature of cycling tactics is a huge part of enforcing omerta.

As a clean pro you're not likely a GT or Classics contender. Most of your results are going to come at the mercy of the strong teams, breakaways or tactical situations. If you're outspoken, a team can easily ride against you to prevent you from getting in breaks, or chasing later in the race. GTs often see guys riding the front for no particular (tactical) reason.

Or, as a clean rider you're a nice guy, loyal domestique who supports a GT/Classics contender. Sure you might be clean, but your employment depends on keeping the faster, probably doped rider happy. And your boss on the road doesn't want to deal with team punishing him because a teammate is stirred up sh!t.

And if you're known as a valuable domestique, who knows where you might end up? I mean, look at Pate cashing checks from Sky. Best to not burn bridges before you get to them.

There are plenty of good practical reasons to just shut up and ride.

 

[the sceptic]

He also said you can ask him anything about anything, any time.

How times have changed.

 

[sniper]

BENSON:
A number of nagging issues grated, however. Why had USADA seen fit to hand out such meek six-month bans? Why had everyone switched on their consciences in such a collective manner in 2006? And why had Garmin sent the soon-to-be banned riders - Zabriskie, Vande Velde and Danielson - through the American circuit to win races right before the USADA decision was about to be made public?

benson is definitely asking the right questions here, but deplorably lets vaughters get away with not answering them. (what else is new...). And trolls can learn here. Vaughters showing how to effectively deflect away from the nagging issues.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/vaughters-this-team-is-the-love-of-my-life