JV talks, sort of

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Nov 2, 2013
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This goes back to the policy that we published … I know I’ve referred to this a million times, but I feel like people need to revisit this thing. But from a team policy standpoint, our policy has always been that people are open, honest, and truthful to anti-doping authorities. And Ryder accomplished that a long time ago to the satisfaction of us.”
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/11/news/his-clean-team-dirtied-vaughters-wouldnt-change-a-thing_306775#xK6tTmedB0UyKIiG.99

Anyone able to provide a link to this "published policy"?
 
Sep 29, 2012
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westerner said:
This goes back to the policy that we published … I know I’ve referred to this a million times, but I feel like people need to revisit this thing. But from a team policy standpoint, our policy has always been that people are open, honest, and truthful to anti-doping authorities. And Ryder accomplished that a long time ago to the satisfaction of us.”
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/11/news/his-clean-team-dirtied-vaughters-wouldnt-change-a-thing_306775#xK6tTmedB0UyKIiG.99

Anyone able to provide a link to this "published policy"?
nope

still nope
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dear Wiggo said:
Just release data for a rider(s) with no names. Done. No confidentiality problems. As long as there are dates, of course.

Huh.

Just realised when JV said the riders all tested high at the start of the Giro, and I asked him why, he said team doctors told him. I didn't believe this and questioned it.

He changed the story to Francesca Rossi telling him.

And I only just realised now that he never said, "well, we track the parameters of our athletes and could see from previous figures that they tested high pre-Giro".

Either because:
1. they don't track their athlete's parameters - either internally or via ADAMS access
2. it was a bunch of BS re: everyone testing high

Sometimes I hate being slow.

Anyway.

If, as you suggest, JV does not have internal testing results that are comparable to other teams / riders, then WTF are they testing, and WTF for?

ACE was their idea and implemented by CSC and Garmin back in the day, at allegedly great expense. Did they throw all that out the window when ABP implemented most of the ACE ideas? Do something completely new and different?

Dodgy as excretive expletive.
good points. when asked how he knows Hesjedal is clean, his answer was along the lines of 'i simply know and i trust him fully', rather than 'well because we're testing him all year round'.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
Just realised when JV said the riders all tested high at the start of the Giro, and I asked him why, he said team doctors told him. I didn't believe this and questioned it.

He changed the story to Francesca Rossi telling him.
2. it was a bunch of BS re: everyone testing high
you know the atavistic fable this was channeling dont you Dear Wiggo.

lets preface it for a sec, when one is a fabulist, it does indeed benefit to channel some sliver of truth, atleast, an anecdote that was true. It gives the anecdote a kernel of truth as its scaffolding.

In 1999, a certain team tested high, everyone, in particular jv, who hit about 49 crit. Hog was worried that JV was flirting with 50 and could get one of those health suspension things. Rob Hayles, this is your life.

Anyway, 2+2 together JV used his experience in 1999 in July with USPostal and theHog, when he had his high natural crit free monopoly pass. It was ok, JV said he had his certificate to the Hog.

Anyway, JV would prolly skate thru with none ever picking up his change of his fable, for starters. Then, none would have raise this analysis. Cos no one would give a $hit. I still dont give a $hit btw.
 
May 26, 2010
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Looks like the end is nigh for JV.....


Key changes to the 2015 World Anti-Doping Code
The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) revised the World Anti-Doping Code in conjunction with anti-doping organisations around the world. It was agreed to at the World Conference on Doping in Sport in Johannesburg in 2013.

More than 2,000 changes have been made to the Code which is designed to be tougher on intentional cheats. You can check out Drug Free Sport NZ’s factsheet on the revised Code here.

Below is a summary of key changes included in the new Code:
New rules

There are now ten Anti-Doping Rule Violations. The revised code introduces two new violations:

• Prohibited Association: associating with a person such as a coach, doctor, physiotherapist etc who has been found guilty of a doping offence
:rolleyes: if only..............
 
Sep 29, 2012
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sniper said:
good points. when asked how he knows Hesjedal is clean, his answer was along the lines of 'i simply know and i trust him fully', rather than 'well because we're testing him all year round'.
Yeah right. Good continuation - man. I feel dumb sometimes. Played. Chapeau JV.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
Ah yes, I do see the hidden message.

The recent scandals at Barclays Plc, JPMorgan Chase & Co., Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and other banks might give the impression that the financial Sector has some serious morality problems. Unfortunately, it’s worse than that: We are dealing with a drop in ethical standards throughout the business world, and our graduate schools are partly to blame.
 
Granville57 said:
Ah yes, I do see the hidden message.
More likely

The recent scandals at Barclays Plc, JPMorgan Chase & Co., Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and other banks might give the impression that the financial Sector has some serious morality problems. Unfortunately, it’s worse than that: We are dealing with a drop in ethical standards throughout the business world, and our graduate schools are partly to blame.
 
This is bait strange. JV has been quite clear that he doesn't care what doping history people bring as long as:
- they subscribe to staying clean ad adhere to clean cycling while at Garmin
- they fully cooperate when ADA's when necessary or asked by ADA's.

I am baffled people are still surprised that known dopers can get a job (and fresh start) at Garmin. Hell, it is not like JV can slate any of the former dopers himself.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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GJB123 said:
This is bait strange. JV has been quite clear that he doesn't care what doping history people bring as long as:
- they subscribe to staying clean ad adhere to clean cycling while at Garmin
- they fully cooperate when ADA's when necessary or asked by ADA's.

I am baffled people are still surprised that known dopers can get a job (and fresh start) at Garmin. Hell, it is not like JV can slate any of the former dopers himself.
if you can't see the irony here.
GJB, start honoring your avatar.
HARRY: When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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westerner said:
http://www.dopeology.org/people/Fabrizio_Guidi/

I'll second or third that. How does keeping this guy employed in the sport fit with any antidoping ethos no matter how creatively constructed?

I think JV needs to put one of those sarcastic smilies after his tweeter bio.

"I've dedicated my life to professional cycling, anti-doping...

???!!!
true.

JV believes, in fact he knows, that Hesjedal quit doping before Phonak.:rolleyes:
Fabrizio Guidi is a reminder that doping on Phonak was the norm.
He was Phonak's road captain at several races that featured Hesjedal in the starting line up.

Can't wait to hear Guidi's answer when Benson asks him if he can vouch for Hesjedal's cleanliness while they rode together at Phonak.
 
Nov 2, 2013
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sniper said:
true.

JV believes, in fact he knows, that Hesjedal quit doping before Phonak.:rolleyes:
Fabrizio Guidi is a reminder that doping on Phonak was the norm.
He was Phonak's road captain at several races that featured Hesjedal in the starting line up.

Can't wait to hear Guidi's answer when Benson asks him if he can vouch for Hesjedal's cleanliness while they rode together at Phonak.
I'd not hold your breath waiting for this answer. Guidi is on JV's payroll now and JV does not believe that the media or fans have any right to know these things.

“At the end of the day fans and media outlets have no impact, or very little impact in actually changing the internal workings of cycling. There are people who can have a great impact.

“Those people are WADA, those people are potentially federal authorities or police services in other countries.

“Those people have an absolute need for the truth in order to do their jobs properly and in order to enforce the rules of the sport, or the country, correctly.

“Do I think that you have an absolute need for that information? No, I don't.

“And I don't see an ounce of hypocrisy in that.

http://bikezilla.blogspot.ca/2011/06/jonathan-vaughters-interview-part-2.html

Ryder errrr another of JV's quote from an interview by email:

“I don’t know what people want to think. At the end of the day, there’s the whole story, the information’s not out there, and people are making assumptions and deciding stuff for themselves, and they don’t know the story. It’s up to me and the authorities, who are trying to do the right thing and what’s necessary. It’s not everyone’s right to know all the details in these types of matters. I told my story to the authorities, because I know they can make a difference.
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/06/news/exclusive-hesjedal-speaks-past-doping-offenses_328778#zm6eFFbZodigSBUM.99

When we've see Federal investigations shut down, ADA's operating with limited competency, resources, powers and in secrecy, corruption cases in various sports governing bodies etc stifling the media makes zero sense to anyone who says they want doping out of sport.
 
Nov 14, 2013
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westerner said:
I don’t know what people want to think. At the end of the day, there’s the whole story, the information’s not out there, and people are making assumptions and deciding stuff for themselves, and they don’t know the story. It’s up to me and the authorities, who are trying to do the right thing and what’s necessary. It’s not everyone’s right to know all the details in these types of matters.
That is true and he has every right to withhold whatever he likes. Just like we have every right to speculate and run storylines about what we think really happened. The two go hand in hand.
 
GJB123 said:
This is bait strange. JV has been quite clear that he doesn't care what doping history people bring as long as:
- they subscribe to staying clean ad adhere to clean cycling while at Garmin
- they fully cooperate when ADA's when necessary or asked by ADA's.

I am baffled people are still surprised that known dopers can get a job (and fresh start) at Garmin. Hell, it is not like JV can slate any of the former dopers himself.
Whilst one cannot be certain with the CIRC currently in progress, it seems unlikely that Guidi has ever cooperated with the authorities and he has established a character of dishonesty which goes beyond the act of doping itself.

Cooperation

According to the judgment (linked above by Benotti), Guidi denied the charges raised against him in Oil for Drugs. He was involved in an investigation which targeted at least 22 individuals but no note is made in the judgment of any cooperation. Indeed he applied to have the charges against him dropped. Which didn't work, since he received a two-year suspension based on the facts of the case.

Dishonesty

I would agree that the team has not had qualms about hiring dopers but the thin veneer of respectability has much to do with economy with the truth. Staying silent but not lying under caution.

This case is a little different however. After the authorities raided an address to which Guidi was linked, his father claimed to the authorities that the growth hormone releasing substance they found during that raid was for an existing medical condition of his father's. And presumably Guidi did not deny that.

Unfortunately for the father, when proof of this medical condition was sought, the details of the pharmacy and the doctor supposedly consulted had, of course, slipped their minds.

At the same time, Guidi's wiretapped conversations with Balestri were, according to Guidi, properly about wheels and tactics in Milan-Sanremo rather than blood doping.

If Ballan ever wants a DS job, I guess he knows where to go.

***

It's all there but of course I am happy to see my rough handle on Italian corrected and, in the new spirit of openness in this new generation of cycling, the facts clarified if I have misapprehended any of them.

And in any case it makes no difference, I suppose, when we consider that there exists a flexible approach to hiring. Ethics have proven historically to be very flexible indeed in our sport.
 
Oil for drugs was 2003. But I guess in your book once a thief is always a thief. That seems to be the prevailing thought with the usual suspects in the Clinic.

I am not condoning anything Guidi did or allegedly did. Far from it, but I think I can count the riders who were honest and forthcoming immediately once implicated or accused of PED-abuse can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Even riders who luckily have come clean in the end (and for which I commend them) such as Landis, Hamilton, Jaksche, Rasmussen, etc. lied and lied and would basically have sold their mothers to skip the charges. Let's at least be honest about that. Therefore I would like reserve judgement on Guidi and Garmin-Cannondale.

But in any case people shouldn't act all surprised that JV (also) hires ex-dopers. He never made any bones about that. The again look at it from the bright side, he might actually have enticed Guidi to come clean to ADA's now. ;-)
 
Nov 2, 2013
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L'arriviste said:
Dishonesty

I would agree that the team has not had qualms about hiring dopers but the thin veneer of respectability has much to do with economy with the truth. Staying silent but not lying under caution.
Thanks for more background on FG.

Re quote above took that as a challenge to find a lie out there in the www.

In 2007 Vaughters said this:

Finally, there is Vaughters, who has all but admitted he took performance-enhancing drugs, but will not cross the line into specific confession.

Vaughters says he is beyond WADA's statute of limitations, but won't discuss details of his own past because of other people it involves. He contends his experience helps him understand the forces at work in the peloton and sift sincerity from hypocrisy. If his tightrope act isn't enough for critics, Vaughters says that's just too bad.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/slipstream

Nonetheless in his affidavit Barry said Vaughters was doping on CA in 2002 ie inside the SOL in 2007

see point 49. on pg 10 (sorry could not cut and paste the text?)

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Barry,+Michael+Affidavit.pdf

We know JV is fine with hiding behind SOL so to avoid punishment for himself, and his GT winner. And also no problem lying to the media in 2007 in order to keep his position and his backers money. Keeping the omerta or he'd have lost most of his A team. JV's build his brand on the illusion that his team was somehow the choice for fans who wanted to support a transparent ethical program. Some flexible ethics indeed.
 
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