JV talks, sort of

[Dr. Maserati]

I'm a bit confused by this post. Why would we ask for him or other DSs to come here if it were to refrain from asking those "obtuse" (which I take to actually mean "hard" or "pointed" here) questions? Isn't that the whole point?

JV should be encouraged to come on here - and he should be asked hard questions and any answers held to scrutiny. Most people are able to evaluate what he says and interpret it there own way.

However a small number already have already made up there minds, so any answer will not suffice - that's obtuse.

 

[the big ring]

When did he register/make the first post?

I think he wanted to lower people's eyebrows post-2009 Tour. Would that be right?

Very astute.

Join Date: Aug 2009

Ok, I know I'm nuts for even bothering here, but here goes:

My major point had to do with the percentage of anearobic work done in a 20 minute efforts vs a 40 min effort. The bike weight, etc etc, probably does only account for 20 watts assuming a perfectly steady effort (which is an invalid assumption if you've ever watched a bike race). However, the amount of power produced beyond what is produced aerobically in a 20 minute effort is considerable, it is not in a 40 minute effort - in my experience!

So, that was my point. If you fellows would like to keep going on about how we dope Brad and Christian, then have at it. It's really silly, as they aren't, but whatever, I've spent enough time trying to fight windmills for today. Have at it boys.

Sorry that I no longer have your respect - JV

The thread and his post were in response to this: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughters-defends-ucis-biological-passport

Pretty sure Khol put paid to any ABP worship.

If, as I hypothesised previously, JV was instrumental in the ABP's creation for cycling, it's no wonder he thinks it's the bestest thing of all.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Doc, the thread has developed in the meantime and some points have been raised that remain unaddressed by JV and his unconditional supporters (to which I count you for the sake of simplicity)
For instance, why don'T you share your opinion about Fearless Greg Lemond's post on San Millan? (one page back)

If you believe I am an unconditiional supporter of JV then you know little about me and have not followed my posts.
I realize you framed that with a "for the sake of simplicity" - that appears to be the way you look at most things.

San Millan? I have no opinion of him. What opinion should I have.

 

[sniper]

If you believe I am an unconditiional supporter of JV then you know little about me and have not followed my posts.
I realize you framed that with a "for the sake of simplicity" - that appears to be the way you look at most things.

San Millan? I have no opinion of him. What opinion should I have.

you come in here in defence of JV without addressing the problematic issues raised here. for simplicity's sake i assume.
the way you respond to posts that don't suit you, in general, is rather simplistic as well. you boldface a small and irrelevant part of that post that you feel comfortable rebutting (as above with benotti's post),
and leave the rest (typically more relevant part) of the post unaddressed.
not once have I heard you say, ow my bad, or something similar. guess that's emotionally too complicated for a grumpy old man like you.

 

[Jeremiah]

JV should be encouraged to come on here - and he should be asked hard questions and any answers held to scrutiny. Most people are able to evaluate what he says and interpret it there own way.

However a small number already have already made up there minds, so any answer will not suffice - that's obtuse.

The point you completely miss is that a bike race is an unequivocal event, OR SHOULD BE. The first guy across the line should be considered the winner and all the talking is over.

Obviously that is not happening now in the biggest events. Why is that?

JV is not a bad person, but he does have a history. Whose fault is that? Is it the fault of the forum poster who just wants unambiguous answers as to the fair results of sporting events?

Now, it seems that JV wishes to clean up cycling and has done much to advance that agenda.

However, he continues to hedge on some of his statements, some of which strain the credulity of many forum posters.

Even strong JV supporters find his assessment of Sky somewhat suspect.

The fact is that JV often does not make strong, declarative, unambiguous statements that don't require reading between the lines. In his mind he probably has very good reasons for this, but it must be acknowledged that they don't come off as well as he would like, especially to an informed audience such as many members of these forums.

While his PR strategy is completely understandable, it can still grate on the informed fan. Is that the fan's fault?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

you come in here in defence of JV without addressing the problematic issues raised here. for simplicity's sake i assume.

For simplicity's sake, you see problems in everything.

the way you respond to posts that don't suit you, in general, is rather simplistic as well. you boldface a small and irrelevant part of that post that you feel comfortable rebutting (as above with benotti's post),
and leave the rest (typically more relevant part) of the post unaddressed.
not once have I heard you say, ow my bad, or something similar. guess that's emotionally too complicated for a grumpy old man like you.

I ain't old - if you want me to be less grumpy then articulate something relevant.

 

[sniper]

For simplicity's sake, you see problems in everything.


I ain't old - if you want me to be less grumpy then articulate something relevant.

To repeat: the thread has moved on and has raised the relevant issues of San millan and marginal gains. But don't bother, I know the two issues don't suit you and I guess relevance is a matter of taste anyway. Just keep nitpicking Doc, and don't sweat too much.

 

[Benotti69]

So you would prefer he doesn't bother - so you prefer omertà than telling his own story, interesting.

He is not telling his own story! He is playing the clinic as part of pro cycling. It serves his purpose. Whether that is to align himslef to anti-doping or other reasons he isn't doing it for the good of cycling.

I dont recall any big doping insights given by JV. Considering he doped, i think that strange to come in here and not recount experiences, even in the 3rd person.

Yet in his current posting manner his presence here is as about useful as a DS who doesn't post.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

To repeat: the thread has moved on and has raised the relevant issues of San millan and marginal gains. But don't bother, I know the two issues don't suit you and I guess relevance is a matter of taste anyway. Just keep nitpicking Doc, and don't sweat too much.

Fine.
I don't know about San Millan. I will check on him when I get home.
But if you can articulate your concerns about him and what he has done then I will happily read it.

Marginal gains - I have no idea what you are on about, but as you get upset if I don't address all parts then again please articulate any concerns.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

He is not telling his own story! He is playing the clinic as part of pro cycling. It serves his purpose. Whether that is to align himslef to anti-doping or other reasons he isn't doing it for the good of cycling.

I dont recall any big doping insights given by JV. Considering he doped, i think that strange to come in here and not recount experiences, even in the 3rd person.

Yet in his current posting manner his presence here is as about useful as a DS who doesn't post.

Serious question - did you ask him any questions when he was here?

Playing the Clinic? If he wanted to 'play' opinion, then write a blog where no-one can question you. What experiences did you want him to recount that have not already been addressed?

 

[hrotha]

I honestly think JV simply enjoys this social media thing. He genuinely likes forums and Twitter.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

The fact is that JV often does not make strong, declarative, unambiguous statements that don't require reading between the lines. In his mind he probably has very good reasons for this, but it must be acknowledged that they don't come off as well as he would like, especially to an informed audience such as many members of these forums.

You are right. But, and a big but, he can't do that. He's got 120 people working for him.

That's how reality is, that's how serious we gotta take him coming here. He cannot yeopardise the lifes of 120 people.

We want/demand answers. We're not gonna get them here, in public. And I do understand that, not happy about but hell, I am not happy about a lot of things.

I can be happy when Pharmstrong and his thugs will get what they deserve.

My enemies enemy is still my friend.

Note: LeMond has been real quiet [spelling?] in the last months....

Vaughters is a pragmatist, he wants dope to be regulated as it can't be rooted out of the sports. Mankind is a cheater, face it.

edit: but I am still interested in those clean numbers and Inigo San Millan, tha clean doctor from Astana/Vitalicio/ONCE and of course Saunier Duval.

 

[Benotti69]

Serious question - did you ask him any questions when he was here?

Playing the Clinic? If he wanted to 'play' opinion, then write a blog where no-one can question you. What experiences did you want him to recount that have not already been addressed?

No becuase i know he will not answer them. It was obvious that he wasn't going to as he has pretty much said so in his posts with "i cant go there" or "hopefully all will be revealed"....

It is hardly fun playing on your own, is it now?


Shall we ask JV an easy question or 3?

When and where did you 1st dope JV and what exactly was the method?

Who approached you about doping?

You took up to 25 injections a day on USPS, what were they?

I wont hold my breadth!

 

[hrotha]

Ah, mmm, he's already addressed the first 2 questions...

 

[Benotti69]

Ah, mmm, he's already addressed the first 2 questions...

post the answers for the new members

 

[JRTinMA]

No becuase i know he will not answer them. It was obvious that he wasn't going to as he has pretty much said so in his posts with "i cant go there" or "hopefully all will be revealed"....

It is hardly fun playing on your own, is it now?


Shall we ask JV an easy question or 3?

When and where did you 1st dope JV and what exactly was the method?

Who approached you about doping?

You took up to 25 injections a day on USPS, what were they?

I wont hold my breadth!

Where have you been? He answered 1 and 2 and three is a new question.

 

[hrotha]

post the answers for the new members

It's not directly in this thread, but in his latest interview. The link has been posted here though - can't look for it right now, but it must be in one of the last few pages.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

No becuase i know he will not answer them. It was obvious that he wasn't going to as he has pretty much said so in his posts with "i cant go there" or "hopefully all will be revealed"....

It is hardly fun playing on your own, is it now?


Shall we ask JV an easy question or 3?

When and where did you 1st dope JV and what exactly was the method?

Who approached you about doping?

You took up to 25 injections a day on USPS, what were they?

I wont hold my breadth!

Cyclevaughters: once I went to CA and saw that now all the teams got 25 injections every day

Cyclevaughters: hell, CA was ZERO

FDREU: you mean all the riders

 

[Jeremiah]

Convenient excuse for JV

You are right. But, and a big but, he can't do that. He's got 120 people working for him.

That's how reality is, that's how serious we gotta take him coming here. He cannot yeopardise the lifes of 120 people.

We want/demand answers. We're not gonna get them here, in public. And I do understand that, not happy about but hell, I am not happy about a lot of things.

I can be happy when Pharmstrong and his thugs will get what they deserve.

My enemies enemy is still my friend.

Note: LeMond has been real quiet [spelling?] in the last months....

Vaughters is a pragmatist, he wants dope to be regulated as it can't be rooted out of the sports. Mankind is a cheater, face it.

edit: but I am still interested in those clean numbers and Inigo San Millan, tha clean doctor from Astana/Vitalicio/ONCE and of course Saunier Duval.

He was an independent contractor when he started doping. He doesn't get a pass because his doping helped him attain the position he's in.

Fairly recently his bio on his webpage cited the Ventoux record and maybe it still does.

He wrote sarcastically on Twitter that he'd take it down in response to a Twitter inquiry.

 

[Benotti69]

What Vaughters was trying to say was there were no injections on CA, doesn't read great in his text, side effects to doping, cant text for sh!t.

 

[Benotti69]

It's not directly in this thread, but in his latest interview. The link has been posted here though - can't look for it right now, but it must be in one of the last few pages.

This:

Nunez: “You know, Jonathan, I’ve been thinking about this, and we aren’t going to dope you. But we think that because you’re training so hard, that we want to make sure we keep your red-cell count the same as it was at the beginning of the season, when you came from Colorado fresh.”

Vaughters: “OK, sounds good.”

Nunez: “There’s going to be some medication that we’ll use to make sure that happens.”

Vaughters: “OK.”

“I quickly figured out he was talking about EPO,” says Vaughters today. “As much as I should’ve said no, and as much as I was intelligent and should have said, ‘Wait, this is bull****,’ in my mind he’d just spelled out that I wasn’t going to dope; we’d just make my hematocrit what it would have been had I not been riding my bike so damn much.

.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

He was an independent contractor when he started doping. He doesn't get a pass because his doping helped him attain the position he's in.

Fairly recently his bio on his webpage cited the Ventoux record and maybe it still does.

He wrote sarcastically on Twitter that he'd take it down in response to a Twitter inquiry.

I couldn't agree more. Ask other riders of his time who did stay of the juice what they think of Vaughters and all...

That doesn't take away the fact he is now running a buisiness for 119 people who are somehow depending on him and his shady past. He is compromised, and also when 'posting' on this forum.

 

[Benotti69]

I couldn't agree more. Ask other riders of his time who did stay of the juice what they think of Vaughters and all...

That doesn't take away the fact he is now running a buisiness for 119 people who are somehow depending on him and his shady past. He is compromised, and also when 'posting' on this forum.

If he is compromised, why do it? Why not post anonymously and let more information out for the benefit of those who want to know the ins and outs of the pro peloton?

No he does it partly for ego.

 

[Catwhoorg]

If he is compromised, why do it? Why not post anonymously and let more information out for the benefit of those who want to know the ins and outs of the pro peloton?

No he does it partly for ego.

Who would believe an anonymous source ?

 

[Benotti69]

Who would believe an anonymous source ?

You dont believe RaceRadio, ChewbaccaD, or even the link king Dr Maserati?

At least his anonymous information would get confirmed sooner or later which would give weight to his posts. What he does now is show up with nothing to offer, like lots, but because he is JV he is feted for it!