Kenny Williams

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fatandfast said:
5 categories. 2 of 5 are easy to upgrade. That's 40% easy by regular math. Find out you are not cut out for promotion while in 5's. Needing a special category because you are 30 speaks volumes. Giving a child or adult an "upgrade" for showing up 10 times is lame. As for big fields for people with jobs so that the promoter makes money.....sounds like MS 150. Thank God they leave Rugby and Aus rules football pure. When a 35 year old prepares to get crushed would you suggest that a special vest(pink maybe) is worn so he will be gently tossed on the pitch? Healthy hobby isn't that what the public race is for? This is where golf and football(soccer) have the advantage if your results suck you get relegated . You are right we need grass roots racers I just think the fields should be doubled and the categories halved. Just a simple difference of opinion

All this would do is make the racing more dangerous for all involved. I don't know a single racer who likes combined fields and I know a lot of racers. The fact is that actual racers LIKE stratified fields because they create an increased level of safety whereby riders of a similar skill and experience are placed in the same pack.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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BikeCentric said:
All this would do is make the racing more dangerous for all involved. I don't know a single racer who likes combined fields and I know a lot of racers. The fact is that actual racers LIKE stratified fields because they create an increased level of safety whereby riders of a similar skill and experience are placed in the same pack.

You kind sir are correct. Big packs are often more dangerous than small ones.
 
fatandfast said:
You kind sir are correct. Big packs are often more dangerous than small ones.

Big, unskilled packs are dangerous. Good racers don't fight for a line in the middle of the field; if they're smart because nothing happens there.
Having started racing late (34 yrs), getting an exploded collarbone in my 2nd Cat 4 race because a panicking rider took me out; my motivation to train and win was to escape that pack. I didn't stop doing that until Cat 4 was long in the rear-view and I don't want to race with new, strong Masters with no guidance software (think tri-athlete cross-over).
We all agree there may be too much "all are winners" philosophy but a good bike racer can take some time to develop. Meanwhile-we were talking about testing and PED prevention...
 
Jul 14, 2009
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Oldman said:
Big, unskilled packs are dangerous. Good racers don't fight for a line in the middle of the field; if they're smart because nothing happens there.
Having started racing late (34 yrs), getting an exploded collarbone in my 2nd Cat 4 race because a panicking rider took me out; my motivation to train and win was to escape that pack. I didn't stop doing that until Cat 4 was long in the rear-view and I don't want to race with new, strong Masters with no guidance software (think tri-athlete cross-over).
We all agree there may be too much "all are winners" philosophy but a good bike racer can take some time to develop. Meanwhile-we were talking about testing and PED prevention...

quality not quantity of racers causes most problems. I wish you never fall again. If people want to win fear is out the window. I love to race with people with way less skills than me. Your discovery that off the front, the lines are clear and you can pedal all the way through most corners with no outcome of some dweeb death grab on the breaks will serve you for the rest of your racing career. I know a guy who went on to be a pro MTB racer for 2 years, as a road racer he said the reason he won so many races was that he was afraid to ride in a pack of nervous nellys. Back to PEDs if you stick with my loose formula you still only need to test 1 and 2's because you could only sandbag for a season before your talent grows you out of the lower categories. Kenny was the masters champ because the fed system makes the fish no matter how big, never outgrow the pond. If you win 10 Cat2 races you should get a "way to go letter"! in the mail and your upgraded license with it.
 
fatandfast said:
quality not quantity of racers causes most problems. I wish you never fall again. If people want to win fear is out the window. I love to race with people with way less skills than me. Your discovery that off the front, the lines are clear and you can pedal all the way through most corners with no outcome of some dweeb death grab on the breaks will serve you for the rest of your racing career. I know a guy who went on to be a pro MTB racer for 2 years, as a road racer he said the reason he won so many races was that he was afraid to ride in a pack of nervous nellys. Back to PEDs if you stick with my loose formula you still only need to test 1 and 2's because you could only sandbag for a season before your talent grows you out of the lower categories. Kenny was the masters champ because the fed system makes the fish no matter how big, never outgrow the pond. If you win 10 Cat2 races you should get a "way to go letter"! in the mail and your upgraded license with it.

Thanks for the well wishes but all race levels have crashes and I've had my share at each. I do spend most of my time trying for separation from the pack whether in Masters or 1,2 events and using the gullible in the process.
Kenny was only sandbagging Masters occassionally for the money but many other racers got faster in the process. He usually raced Pro 1,2 and was never caught there...Masters Natz should definitely test the top 5 finishers and some randoms.I think they will be surprised how the names at the top change from prior years with the exception of legitmate phenoms like Thurlow, Stetina and a handful of others.
 
Dec 6, 2009
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fatandfast said:
I think you know a great deal about the twits that fight to establish themselves as anything more than pack fill. A tweet here and there,digital camera shots and a blog mixed with some local stompings made this guy into a coach to lots of Jrs and people working hard to improve their abilities. When I won my first Cat 4 race I was on top of the world, but before I could get my license signed and a gift cert. for 30 dollars some azzcheese wanted to beat my skull..he needed his license signed for a 6th place to upgrade. The official told him he would only sign for top 3 because that was all the placings they were keeping track of...I am sure that that sh-tbag is probably being coached by somebody like Kenny who has shown him how to be king of his local parking lot crit. They should do away with 2 categories and raise feild limits to 125 and get rid of all this grey haired feel good bs. The fed has divided the body of racers into so many divisions that even a masters win is life or death. Wish you were wrong about the Cat5 and the 15 mile crit but I know you are right.

people like to achieve things. anyone who's ever paid a lot of money to get credit for some special university course is going to be ****ed at getting a "C" grade. they want an "A" whether they really earned it or not.

so, in a sport like road cycling which is probably the most competitive sport out there, the pressure to succeed or hold some kind of status is very high. people justify things in their head about what's "right" and what's "wrong." sorry to hear about your negative experiences, but that's what happens when adrenaline and pride take over.

class & honor bypass poor sportsmanship at all times. no excuse for being a bad sportsman, no matter what sport you participate in. i think road racing is the toughest sport in the world with no equal, so the attitude, passion, and will to take the easy road or be effected by negativity will always be extremely high among riders.

as athletes and competitors we have rules in place to ensure the best athlete who obtains victory is playing on a level playing field and is participating "clean." no athlete should have to risk liver & kidney disease, increased risk of sudden heart attack/stroke, PLUS increased cancer risk, PLUS painful experience with the criminal justice system for felony possession of controlled substances, JUST TO BE ON AN EQUAL PLAYING FIELD WITH DOPERS. doping is so bad we have to shorten the TDF as to not encourage doping, that's ridiculous.

now, let's break down the TDF to a local 1-2 scene. we all have our own suspicions as to who is clean or not clean, but it's another thing when people come up to you and start the conversation.

a large and well-established shop in my area had a sale on pre-built wheelsets at a price i couldn't refuse, so i bought a set. when i was looking at the wheels, the clerk (who was a local CAT 2) initiated a conversation about all the 1's & 2's that he thought were doping in local races. and, this is So Cal, so it's a big scene. i'm also a coach, and he knew i was a coach, and i'm sure that's what turned the convo from wheels into to who's doping on the local scene. he was ****ed and wanted something to be done about it.

of course, his accusations were merely his own observations and his own speculation, no "science" behind any of it to back up his claims. but.....it wouldn't surprise me to find that at least some of those he accused were indeed guilty.

the culture of doping and the "it's all good" mindset needs to be stamped out for good in athletic competition. cheating is never good or "right" or "ok" or anything else short of "fail." how anybody can stand on a podium and raise their hands & smile with dope in their veins is beyond me. the only hope i have for dopers is that they come clean and admit their sins to the tribe like so many top pros have already done. maybe that will positively influence for the better, the 19 y.o. kid who's tempted to dope in order to hang with the old guys at some crit.
 
= 7 1 4 = said:
people like to achieve things. anyone who's ever paid a lot of money to get credit for some special university course is going to be ****ed at getting a "C" grade. they want an "A" whether they really earned it or not.

so, in a sport like road cycling which is probably the most competitive sport out there, the pressure to succeed or hold some kind of status is very high. people justify things in their head about what's "right" and what's "wrong." sorry to hear about your negative experiences, but that's what happens when adrenaline and pride take over.

class & honor bypass poor sportsmanship at all times. no excuse for being a bad sportsman, no matter what sport you participate in. i think road racing is the toughest sport in the world with no equal, so the attitude, passion, and will to take the easy road or be effected by negativity will always be extremely high among riders.

as athletes and competitors we have rules in place to ensure the best athlete who obtains victory is playing on a level playing field and is participating "clean." no athlete should have to risk liver & kidney disease, increased risk of sudden heart attack/stroke, PLUS increased cancer risk, PLUS painful experience with the criminal justice system for felony possession of controlled substances, JUST TO BE ON AN EQUAL PLAYING FIELD WITH DOPERS. doping is so bad we have to shorten the TDF as to not encourage doping, that's ridiculous.

now, let's break down the TDF to a local 1-2 scene. we all have our own suspicions as to who is clean or not clean, but it's another thing when people come up to you and start the conversation.

a large and well-established shop in my area had a sale on pre-built wheelsets at a price i couldn't refuse, so i bought a set. when i was looking at the wheels, the clerk (who was a local CAT 2) initiated a conversation about all the 1's & 2's that he thought were doping in local races. and, this is So Cal, so it's a big scene. i'm also a coach, and he knew i was a coach, and i'm sure that's what turned the convo from wheels into to who's doping on the local scene. he was ****ed and wanted something to be done about it.

of course, his accusations were merely his own observations and his own speculation, no "science" behind any of it to back up his claims. but.....it wouldn't surprise me to find that at least some of those he accused were indeed guilty.

the culture of doping and the "it's all good" mindset needs to be stamped out for good in athletic competition. cheating is never good or "right" or "ok" or anything else short of "fail." how anybody can stand on a podium and raise their hands & smile with dope in their veins is beyond me. the only hope i have for dopers is that they come clean and admit their sins to the tribe like so many top pros have already done. maybe that will positively influence for the better, the 19 y.o. kid who's tempted to dope in order to hang with the old guys at some crit.

+1
Good post; thank you for your input as someone who's clearly been involved in the sport for a long time.
 
Yes, good post 714.

I would agree with I think what BikeCentric said about stratification and winning. The fact is, people want to win, or at least place. To be in a situation where you can move up mostly just by racing until you're at a level where you're likely to never win is nuts.

Now, I was a racer back in the day when we carried tires over our shoulders and had water cages on the handlebars, but I moved all the way up to Cat 3 without ever winning a single race, where I plateaued as pack fodder destined to never place again. I also remember races when they'd clump the 1, 2, and 3's together and we 3's would be on the back hanging on for dear life.

It seems like not a lot has changed since that stone age. :(
 
Dec 18, 2009
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131313 said:
baseball, too. Man, the guy gets around. Drugs don't help you hit a curveball, I guess:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Williams_(baseball)

For the record, he was never a 'Pro'. That's why he was able to race masters nationals right after he was a 'Pro'. He never pulled a pro license, or so his teammates said.

Personally, I find it odd that there's less outrage at an amateur getting busted on this forum. Not to get all 'self-defensive pro guy', but as a pro who's probably been accused of doping on this very forum, I think it's funny you guys aren't tearing into this more. Is it easier when it's some guy you see in magazines but don't have to line up with? Is it harder to condemn one of your own, or do people just not care? serious question.
I know when I rode regularly, I would be rightfully mad if some clown was jacked or doped and racing against me.

I think part of my reason for not wanting to get into the scene was the prevalence of doping.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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lwebb12 said:
I know when I rode regularly, I would be rightfully mad if some clown was jacked or doped and racing against me.

I think part of my reason for not wanting to get into the scene was the prevalence of doping.

There is very little doping as you are getting into the scene. It's when you make the scene and want to stay there. Now we will have and semi-scener as Gerlach races some 35+ crits.
 
Dec 18, 2009
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fatandfast said:
There is very little doping as you are getting into the scene. It's when you make the scene and want to stay there. Now we will have and semi-scener as Gerlach races some 35+ crits.
I was mainly speaking of the prevalance of doping throughout all sports in America.

I became really disenchanted when Landis was busted along with the others around that time.

In essence, people who ride to compete will either be doping, getting jacked up, or clean and at a disadvantage.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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lwebb12 said:
I was mainly speaking of the prevalance of doping throughout all sports in America.

I became really disenchanted when Landis was busted along with the others around that time.

In essence, people who ride to compete will either be doping, getting jacked up, or clean and at a disadvantage.

If that's what's keeping you from participating in sport, I think you need to examine the reasons for participating in sport in the first place.

People cheat, in every walk of life. I make my living racing against people who are doping. I'm also racing against people who simply have more ability than I do. Guess what? Life's not always fair. Do your best, race your hardest and look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day. It works for me.
 
Dec 18, 2009
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131313 said:
If that's what's keeping you from participating in sport, I think you need to examine the reasons for participating in sport in the first place.

People cheat, in every walk of life. I make my living racing against people who are doping. I'm also racing against people who simply have more ability than I do. Guess what? Life's not always fair. Do your best, race your hardest and look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day. It works for me.
It was mainly for fun and some friendly competition. I am far too busy to ride anywhere near the time required now. Several years ago, I was thinking about it.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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+1

Phantom Menace said:
I think people should cut this guy some slack. He made a mistake. Geez.
Yeah, man. Let's all cut Kenny Williams some slack. He's not the doping tool everyone claims him to be.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Oldman said:
He's got two years to regain local trust and eliminate the past drug references. Meanwhile the local officials need to deal with this reality in their backyard.
I'd bet dollars-to-doughnuts he'll be doping during the next two years and come back even stronger.
 
Dec 18, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Yeah, his mistake was getting caught and now he's sorry. Poor baby.

PS. Contador is gonna beotch slap your little shack attack, right into retirement (for good this time).

Well, Contadore is a favourite to win, so the pressure is on him. The gloves were on this year though, next year they'll be off and it will be an excellent show to watch.
 
Dec 18, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Yeah, his mistake was getting caught and now he's sorry. Poor baby.

PS. Contador is gonna beotch slap your little shack attack, right into retirement (for good this time).

and by the way, it is shack smack with a whack, not shack attack. :)
 
HelmutRoole said:
I'd bet dollars-to-doughnuts he'll be doping during the next two years and come back even stronger.

Hopefully not. Having seen him competitively over the years I don't think he gained much advantage if he had a consistent program. His financial circumstances wouldn't allow a serious investment in it and everyone knows him. I like doughnuts, though.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Oldman said:
Hopefully not. Having seen him competitively over the years I don't think he gained much advantage if he had a consistent program. His financial circumstances wouldn't allow a serious investment in it and everyone knows him. I like doughnuts, though.
It costs about $300 for a 12-week cycle of testosterone and a steroid like EQ with a eight week post cycle therapy program of clomid or nolvadex. I'm sure Annette would pony up.