Kimmage interviews Floyd Landis: Sunday Times + Bombshell NYVC transcript [merged]

[Darryl Webster]

True, but you are only mentioning a few 'North Americans'

On a global scale I do not see you averting these types of individuals.

I see Tex-Pats', Darryls' and maybe if I could speak for him, Mr. Obree of protecting individuals especially young people from doping.

That of course would mean keeping cycling on an amateur level.

NOT having an Amatuer elite leval means that "line" no longer exists.
It`s Pro or bust if ya wanna ride a international elite leval now.
The sport needs a strong amauter base to be re instated were the ethic of honest competion can be allowed to flourish and defeat is handled with grace not acrimony.
Thats clearing up the "bottom" and creating a clear gap between that and the pro game.
From the top down a clearing out at IOC and UCI leval and the Democratising of the Olympic ideal by removing it from private hands and deciding it`s location via UN vote. ( yeh..they`l still be curruption but it`s a step in the right direction).
Make all use of genuine PEDS a criminal offence as well as all facilitaters of provisions/ maskings and cover ups. Suspention/ relegations of teams were possitives are found and lifetime bans for ALL support staff , be they race promotors, coaches, DS`s Team Doctors, sogniours, etc proven to have colluded in any way with the use of PEDS from involvement with any cycling events under UCI regs.
The total seperation of the UCI from the promoting of events and familial connections to teams to seen as a clear conflict of interest and untenable.
The UCI`s job should be to referee,,NOTHING else.
Responsibility for medical control needs to be a state health service responsibility over seen by WADA.
A mans word means nothing without the actions to back it up.

 

[MD FACG FACP]

Of course we had a few news flashes in living B+W. And of course international cycle sport Mirror du cycsime etc. Plus quite an few tifosi around north beach SF. Kinda old but they had some good stories. + 1 six day rider who rode in madison square garden . Long goneRIP.

Can I have my free therapy session now sir?

Thanks for the clarification.

Therapy ? No but I'd be happy to assess the condition of your liver.

 

[flicker]

NOT having an Amatuer elite leval means that "line" no longer exists.
It`s Pro or bust if ya wanna ride a international elite leval now.
The sport needs a strong amauter base to be re instated were the ethic of honest competion can be allowed to flourish and defeat is handled with grace not acrimony.
Thats clearing up the "bottom" and creating a clear gap between that and the pro game.
From the top down a clearing out at IOC and UCI leval and the Democratising of the Olympic ideal by removing it from private hands and deciding it`s location via UN vote. ( yeh..they`l still be curruption but it`s a step in the right direction).
Make all use of genuine PEDS a criminal offence as well as all facilitaters of provisions/ maskings and cover ups. Suspention/ relegations of teams were possitives are found and lifetime bans for ALL support staff , be they race promotors, coaches, DS`s Team Doctors, sogniours, etc proven to have colluded in any way with the use of PEDS from involvement with any cycling events under UCI regs.
The total seperation of the UCI from the promoting of events and familial connections to teams to seen as a clear conflict of interest and untenable.
The UCI`s job should be to referee,,NOTHING else.
Responsibility for medical control needs to be a state health service responsibility over seen by WADA.
A mans word means nothing without the actions to back it up.

Right on Darryll I appreciate your knowledge, I learn a lot from you. Also I respect your choices.

 

[flicker]

Thanks for the clarification.

Therapy ? No but I'd be happy to assess the condition of your liver.

Oh good now, a few blood tests and then a quick biopsy?

 

[Dallas_]

That is it exactly.
UCI out of the testing business.
Any DS or Doctor with links to doping out of the sport.
Punish teams as much or more than individuals.
Then and only then come down very hard on riders who still try to dope.

Good post Hugh. All relevant points. Have just nominated you for Pat's position at the UCI.

cheers

 

[Benotti69]

Exactly, but isn't it strange that neither Lelangue or Rihs's (now in charge of Evans the only top GT rider who's thought to be clean) role was discussed during the Kimmage interview. I find it extraordinary that Kimmage didn't ask Landis whether Lelangue new about the programe and whether Rihs's had indeed paid up €90,000 as disclosed in last year's emails.

Obviously Lelangue had to know since Landis said he knew that Pereiro doped in 2005 when he was on Phonak.

So question not asked ? Question edited out?...

On a Phonak related matter, can't remember where I read that yesterday, but an article pointed out that Landis only became the leader of Phonak because Hamilton got busted...so Landis wasn't leaving to be a leader, just like Livingston did in 2000.

teams except TeamPharmastrong always have more than 1 team leader.

Astana has 2, last year Vino and Contador, this year Vino and Kreuziger.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

NOT having an Amatuer elite leval means that "line" no longer exists.
It`s Pro or bust if ya wanna ride a international elite leval now.

Totally agree. I think it's tragic that the pros were allowed into the Olympics.

It ends up yanking the rug out from under any National Team programs, and removes a lot of financing and development impetus that would go to developing riders in each country.

 

[fatandfast]

Totally agree. I think it's tragic that the pros were allowed into the Olympics.

It ends up yanking the rug out from under any National Team programs, and removes a lot of financing and development impetus that would go to developing riders in each country.

+1. Pan Am games..Goodwills and lots of others should be a sub-goal in many riders careers. To be a success you shouldn't have to be a pro..putting everybody on the same path is really derailing lots of Jr programs

 

[BotanyBay]

+1. Pan Am games..Goodwills and lots of others should be a sub-goal in many riders careers. To be a success you shouldn't have to be a pro..putting everybody on the same path is really derailing lots of Jr programs

Maybe the Sony Playstation generation (that has no interest in bike racing at all) is smarter than we think.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Maybe the Sony Playstation generation (that has no interest in bike racing at all) is smarter than we think.

How's that Wii training going? I don't think anyone's going to sign an 'athlete', regardless of the sport, based on the vids.

Mind you, it looks like I could tear Tiger's b*lls off on the links.

Where's my PGA jacket?

I wouldn't go for smarter, but I would buy that they're a lot more distracted, and have the culturally-created view that they're actually doing something worthwhile. That's more than debatable...

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

+1. Pan Am games..Goodwills and lots of others should be a sub-goal in many riders careers. To be a success you shouldn't have to be a pro..putting everybody on the same path is really derailing lots of Jr programs

This is where a LOT of my frustration comes from.

Not only are/were they reasonable goals to strive for, but they were something the National Federations could target as well. Succesfully targetting those also resulted in increased attention and funding for the National programs - therefore resulting in more funding to developing a young group of riders that could perform at the sub-pro level, and go on to persue their pro dreams while being a spokes-person and role-model for the local population of young riders.

Now? A bunch of frustrated and disparaged individuals being spat out the back-end of the system, or a bunch of disillusioned exes that want/need to stay out of the current system altogether.

Way to grow cycling, UCI and IOC. Nice work...

 

[skidmark]

Yipes, that was a long catch-up. Long enough to read the article, almost as long to catch up with this thread.

I don't have much to add, I thought it was a fantastic thing to read, and a fantastic thing for Kimmage to put out there. It really got to the heart of a lot of things I've questioned and suspected as a relatively recent cycling fan who has no access to 'inside' information and has to make my mind up mostly based on what I hear here and how I interpret comments to the media by riders, etc. It also put a great amount of context around Floyd Landis and his decisions, throughout his whole life, but most interestingly after the positive broke in the media. Whether or not people want to use that context to exonerate him, eviscerate him, or just say 'it is what it is' and move on, that is extremely valuable to have.

One thing I can add is that I believe this is probably the whole of the '7 hour' conversation, or at least the chunk of it that is 'on topic' (ie. I don't believe Kimmage left out any 'juicy' bits). Having done interviews and transcriptions a number of times, I know a half-hour interview takes about 7-8 minutes to read, tops, once transcribed. The fact that this took me like 90-120 minutes (I read in intervals so it's hard to say) suggests to me that it's like 4 times as long as that. So that conversation covering 7 hours is entirely plausible, especially when you consider things like - they probably ate, took washroom breaks, etc. So the translation there seems exhaustive.

JMBs comments about how to clean up the sport also resonate with me, especially after reading this interview. I believe, despite the fact that Landis may be super cynical and overlooks a number of riders who may actually be actively 'anti-doping' in favour of his own pragmatic approach, the picture that he paints of the whole system, Postal, UCI, etc. Taking that into context with other things, such as JV & FAs IM conversation saying Credit Agricole was different, etc, I feel I have a bit better understanding of the problems that cycling faces, and the spectrum of doping that exists. On some teams, very little team pressure, on some teams, lots (and the depth with which that is hidden has increased in recent years it seems), but generally, the UCI is complacent at best and complicit at worst. Screw them. I'm gonna go to that sticky thread and find my rep.

 

[Benotti69]

This is where a LOT of my frustration comes from.

Not only are/were they reasonable goals to strive for, but they were something the National Federations could target as well. Succesfully targetting those also resulted in increased attention and funding for the National programs - therefore resulting in more funding to developing a young group of riders that could perform at the sub-pro level, and go on to persue their pro dreams while being a spokes-person and role-model for the local population of young riders.

Now? A bunch of frustrated and disparaged individuals being spat out the back-end of the system, or a bunch of disillusioned exes that want/need to stay out of the current system altogether.

Way to grow cycling, UCI and IOC. Nice work...

i dont think uci are trying to grow cycling in any other way than trying to promote events where they have the tv rights and that means outside of europe. they are trying to grow 'the hands in the pot' side. they are trying to get the Tour of Aus, Tour of USA, Tour of China etc where they will control the events vis a vis IOC and FIFA

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

i dont think uci are trying to grow cycling in any other way than trying to promote events where they have the tv rights and that means outside of europe. they are trying to grow 'the hands in the pot' side. they are trying to get the Tour of Aus, Tour of USA, Tour of China etc where they will control the events vis a vis IOC and FIFA

Agreed. And there is NO money in trying to keep it clean, only bad press with sponsors looking elsewhere. So, what we're looking at is a system that wants to maximize dollars coming in with no regard as to what the system can provide in the future.

Can anyone tell me what ENTROPY means...

 

[webvan]

Not sure how they got the letters, but some nice detective work here on the Landis/Heinz feud over the Mercury guarantee : http://cyclocosm.com/2011/02/raw-documents-the-verbruggenlandis-exchange/

 

[Benotti69]

Not sure how they got the letters, but some nice detective work here on the Landis/Heinz feud over the Mercury guarantee : http://cyclocosm.com/2011/02/raw-documents-the-verbruggenlandis-exchange/

already has its own thread

 

[Michael Brown]

No way I can get caught up by reading this thread, but I have to say that I really enjoyed reading the interview. I wish Landis came off better in the media (insert your own LA "conspiracy" bash here), but that really cleared a lot of things up for me, to be honest. Especially when taken with the Mike Anderson interviews and legal docs I recently read.

I've often said that I would love to sit down and just talk to Landis...now I feel like I have. Very enlightening.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Only today did I get to read the Floyd Landis/ Kimmage interview transcript, must say it was interesting. You realise that some do it because they have to do it and others pull people into doing and try to corrupt the sport far more than just their personal doping has done.

I think they're more strong willed people like Bassons who say no to doping but still can succeed even if he didn't win very much.

 

[enrecul]

Freedom on info in peloton

From the Landis/Kimmage transcript, the most shocking thing for me was the fact that opposing riders gave their doping information so freely...as in Peirero telling Landis he had a transfusion left to do before his TT etc......

This scenario, if it is true, says to me that the riders themselves are totally in the know about what they are getting themselves into and are responsible for their own actions....regardless of team management pressure.

Which makes it more unbelievable that riders get caught, serve a ban and then come back "clean" . If Landis is telling the truth about this then how are we even expected to believe someone like Dave Millar. As for someone like Wiggins....as someone who is a drug free advocate....how can he cycle every day in a peloton that is so blaze about juicing......must be very frustrating.....

BS. Total BS

 

[ak-zaaf]

In before it's moved to the clinic..

 

[JPM London]

... and now that it's in its right place shouldn't it be merged with one of the Landis threads? Just so it follows "don't start new threads" policy...

 

[Benotti69]

From the Landis/Kimmage transcript, the most shocking thing for me was the fact that opposing riders gave their doping information so freely...as in Peirero telling Landis he had a transfusion left to do before his TT etc......

This scenario, if it is true, says to me that the riders themselves are totally in the know about what they are getting themselves into and are responsible for their own actions....regardless of team management pressure.

Which makes it more unbelievable that riders get caught, serve a ban and then come back "clean" . If Landis is telling the truth about this then how are we even expected to believe someone like Dave Millar. As for someone like Wiggins....as someone who is a drug free advocate....how can he cycle every day in a peloton that is so blaze about juicing......must be very frustrating.....

BS. Total BS

why? of course they would converse about it. Pereiro and Landis were team mates the year before. they both knew what was happening and what they were doing.

Kimmage talks about the rear of the peloton discussing similar things, laughing and joking about it too in his book.

as for Millar and Wiggins, well pigs do fly

 

[hrotha]

I'm not sure how LeMond managed to not hear anything about it.

 

[Barrus]

... and now that it's in its right place shouldn't it be merged with one of the Landis threads? Just so it follows "don't start new threads" policy...

Jeez, don't rush me you guys

 

[Hugh Januss]

.

I think they're more strong willed people like Bassons who say no to doping but still can succeed even if he didn't win very much.

From the Landis/Kimmage transcript, the most shocking thing for me was the fact that opposing riders gave their doping information so freely...as in Peirero telling Landis he had a transfusion left to do before his TT etc......

This scenario, if it is true, says to me that the riders themselves are totally in the know about what they are getting themselves into and are responsible for their own actions....regardless of team management pressure.

Which makes it more unbelievable that riders get caught, serve a ban and then come back "clean" . If Landis is telling the truth about this then how are we even expected to believe someone like Dave Millar. As for someone like Wiggins....as someone who is a drug free advocate....how can he cycle every day in a peloton that is so blaze about juicing......must be very frustrating.....

BS. Total BS

why? of course they would converse about it. Pereiro and Landis were team mates the year before. they both knew what was happening and what they were doing.

Kimmage talks about the rear of the peloton discussing similar things, laughing and joking about it too in his book.

as for Millar and Wiggins, well pigs do fly

It occurs to me to wonder about how differently the "clean cycling" proponents are treated compared with how Bassons was treated. Is the fact that Millar, Wigans, Gilbert, Evens, and Garmin are accepted in the peloton proof that the rest of their colleagues know the real deal about them?