Kimmage on Wiggins, Sky

[Benotti69]

interview with PK on the secondcaptains podcast

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/second-captains

published today.

Kimmage gave another interview to offtheball this evening

http://newstalk.ie/player/shows/Off_The_Ball

http://newstalk.ie/off-the-ball-kimmage-rough-rider-doc

 

[sniper]

kimmage with a few comments on walsh, froome and the 2014 tdf (link posted in tennis thread by andynonymous)

Last year Walsh published another book, this time on Team Sky, except this time the cynicism he traditionally expressed was missing. Instead “Inside Team Sky” read like a glorified press release and Kimmage couldn’t believe it.

“What he did was awful. Awful. I was appalled by it. Absolutely appalled. He got it wrong. We haven’t spoken in a year. That has been hard … really hard.”

So too is watching sport. The 101st Tour de France is ongoing but he isn’t engrossed.

“I look at it with a particular eye. I don’t watch the Tour like a fan would watch it. I look at it and say, ‘okay, I can have that … But not that … That makes no sense … Can I believe this?’ There are some cyclists I do believe in but they don’t win very much. I interviewed Chris Froome recently. He was very courteous and I would love to believe the whole sport is perfectly clean. But I can’t.

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/pa...ade-exposing-lance-armstrong-disillusion-tour

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Here Kerrison chats to Oli Cookson and Servais Knaven.

Here, Kerrison is at the Vuelta with the team, doing the ice bucket challenge with Froome and Kennaugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnLpkKWyq0g&feature=youtu.be

 

[RownhamHill]

Here, Kerrison is at the Vuelta with the team, doing the ice bucket challenge with Froome and Kennaugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnLpkKWyq0g&feature=youtu.be

You can tell by the way they were smiling at the end that they were obviously using warm water.

 

[deeno1975]

You can tell by the way they were smiling at the end that they were obviously using warm water.

And that my good man is what you call a marginal gain...

 

[RownhamHill]

And that my good man is what you call a marginal gain...

You could call it that, I prefer to call it ice bucket doping.

 

[coinneach]

Didn't the English rugby team have ice baths after their warm downs?
Helped the bruises, but didn't do much for team spirit or morale

 

[robertmooreheadlane]

Many pro and amateur sports people use ice baths after hard workouts to reduce the onset of DOMS
Basically the cold forces all the blood vessels in the muscles to contract and push the old blood out and then when you get out and the body recovers the blood vessels and muscles are flooded with new oxygenated blood which assists in the removal of lactic acid and other fatigue and soreness inducing elements from within the muscles.
Endurance athletes have been using this for a long long time,
Equally useful but not as good its to simply lie down with your legs up in the air for 20 minutes after a hard session - same effect of old blood draining out of the legs and then new blood flooding in when you stand up again.

 

[Granville57]

Many pro and amateur sports people use ice baths after hard workouts to reduce the onset of DOMS

HTC was big on this.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/02/news/profile-htc-columbias-innovative-trainer-darcy-norman_105477

Mallorca, 2007 – Imagine the absurdity of an entire ProTour team standing in a freezing pool, clad in cycling shorts and parkas; quizzical, uncomfortable looks on their faces. It might have seemed absurd to both observers and the team members at that moment. But now, riders of the team now known as HTC-Columbia jump in willingly when asked — knowing that a cold plunge is ideal for muscle recovery.

A focus on technology

“We were the first team and maybe still the only team to be using a product we found in Australia called ‘I-Cool’ — a portable hydro plunge. We have three of those on trucks at the Tour and use them at the end of the stages. The guys go between riding their bikes on a spinner to cool down and sitting in the cold plunge. A big complaint from the guys is that they are so hot from the day that their systems can’t cool down and they can’t sleep. I would hear stories of guys taking three, four or five showers a night just trying to get cool.”

 

[Dear Wiggo]

There are pictures in the paper dating back years of AFL players walking in the (cold) ocean post-training.

I was assisted in a race once by someone who told me back in the 90s he gave Stuart O'Grady his first ever ice bath as part of the team that were coaching AIS or whoever it was athletes.

It's as old as the sun.

Unless you're Taxus4All, in which case it's the revolutionary recovery technique implemented for the first time ever by Sky.

And yet oldcrank assures us Taxus4All is "in the know". Maybe he knows riders, but his knowledge of what cycling has done in the past, and his reasoning for Froome's meteoric rise is flawed. Fatally.

 

[SeriousSam]

I know everyone and their dawg has been taking ice baths to boost recovery for a long, long time but athletes are a superstitious bunch. They'll do anything if they think it might give them the edge (except dope, that's wrong) even when it's bonkers.

Is there actually convincing evidence ice baths work?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I know everyone and their dawg has been taking ice baths to boost recovery for a long, long time but athletes are a superstitious bunch. They'll do anything if they think it might give them the edge (except dope, that's wrong) even when it's bonkers.

Is there actually convincing evidence ice baths work?

Research I have seen recently indicates cold water therapy and antioxidants (eg Vit C) reduce the training effect / adaptation of intense training. Saunas and hot baths enhance it.

Seriously.

So for in-race recovery, it may be useful, although one study suggested no significant advantage.

But for on-going training purposes, I would say the trade-off would need to be managed at a finer detail than, "does it work".

Brailsford would claim to be that kind of fine detail person running that kind of fine detail team. But no wind tunnel for Froome, riders being burnt out pre-GT and a host of other issues, not the least of which being Froome's team status pre-2011 Vuelta have me believing the complete opposite.

 

[The Hitch]

I know everyone and their dawg has been taking ice baths to boost recovery for a long, long time but athletes are a superstitious bunch. They'll do anything if they think it might give them the edge (except dope, that's wrong) even when it's bonkers.

The funny thing about Sky is all these placebo methods end up being stronger than epo

 

[veganrob]

Had been using ice tubs for thoroughbred race horses since the 80's. I am sure that it was used on human athletes as well since then and Sky did not invent it.

 

[Granville57]

Had been using ice tubs for thoroughbred race horses since the 80's. I am sure that it was used on human athletes as well since then and Sky did not invent it.

NFL players, along with many other professional athletes, have used it for decades too.

Of course there are always other, more cost-effective, approaches to the same type of post-workout therapy.
One should always remember the importance of proper hydration as well.

 

[RownhamHill]

Ahem.

So just to clarify. DW posted a video of some TeamSky staff doing the currently popular ice bucket challenge for charity. I made a bad joke about them cheating at it (because, you know, there is a tendency on this forum for that kind of accusation to get thrown about). And while there was then some interesting discussion about the efficacy of ice baths, this is now degenerating into bashing Sky for claiming a 'revolutionary marginal gain' that is better than epo and only been commonly known about the preceding twenty years. . .

It was a charity video people.

 

[sniper]

Ahem.

So just to clarify. DW posted a video of some TeamSky staff doing the currently popular ice bucket challenge for charity. I made a bad joke about them cheating at it (because, you know, there is a tendency on this forum for that kind of accusation to get thrown about). And while there was then some interesting discussion about the efficacy of ice baths, this is now degenerating into bashing Sky for claiming a 'revolutionary marginal gain' that is better than epo and only been commonly known about the preceding twenty years. . .

It was a charity video people.

if you call that bashing you need to grow some skin.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Ahem.

So just to clarify. DW posted a video of some TeamSky staff doing the currently popular ice bucket challenge for charity. I made a bad joke about them cheating at it (because, you know, there is a tendency on this forum for that kind of accusation to get thrown about). And while there was then some interesting discussion about the efficacy of ice baths, this is now degenerating into bashing Sky for claiming a 'revolutionary marginal gain' that is better than epo and only been commonly known about the preceding twenty years. . .

It was a charity video people.

No point in trying to discuss anything with these people, they are clearly off their heads on something.

 

[Benotti69]

No point in trying to discuss anything with these people, they are clearly off their heads on something.

Yeah, clinicians regularly overdose on marginal gains, especially ice buckets....

 

[The Hitch]

Ahem.

So just to clarify. DW posted a video of some TeamSky staff doing the currently popular ice bucket challenge for charity. I made a bad joke about them cheating at it (because, you know, there is a tendency on this forum for that kind of accusation to get thrown about). And while there was then some interesting discussion about the efficacy of ice baths, this is now degenerating into bashing Sky for claiming a 'revolutionary marginal gain' that is better than epo and only been commonly known about the preceding twenty years. . .

It was a charity video people.

They have tired to pass of many times meaningless BS thats been around for decades as some sort super secret marginal gain that Brailsford and Kerrison invented.

I'm bashing them for it.

 

[ferryman]

Yeah, clinicians regularly overdose on marginal gains, especially ice buckets....

Let's not all get stupid and fall out over this stupid thing. As far as I'm concerned it's a waste of ice that should be used for better purposes, like in a strong Gin and tonic Try one peeps and chill

 

[mewmewmew13]

I like that pic of Floyd ^^^

 

[Energy Starr]

Let's not all get stupid and fall out over this stupid thing. As far as I'm concerned it's a waste of ice that should be used for better purposes, like in a strong Gin and tonic Try one peeps and chill

+10!

Now can we talk booze, because I know WAY more than you all about booze!

 

[ontheroad]

Kimmage tweet:

Dad: "Did you watch the Vuelta today?" "No." "Contador! A guy who broke his leg in the Tour! How could you believe anything they say?"

Is Kimmage trying to say that Contador DIDN'T break his leg in the tour. Or is he simply saying that his performances in this Vuelta are so mutant considering the leg break that he has no interest in watching it?

My own opinion is that Contador's performances have been absolutely insane considering the extent of his injury and his doubtful participation and loss of training and condition.

 

[HappyCycling]

Both I think