Kimmage unleashes hell, counter-sues Verbruggen & McQuaid

[Mrs John Murphy]

What's the story on John Coates? Serious or a placeman?

 

[blackcat]

What's the story on John Coates? Serious or a placeman?

w@nking red-headed step child lawyer olympic blueblood rower

 

[thehog]

What's the story on John Coates? Serious or a placeman?

From memory he's an Aussie. I could be mistaken. Think he was Chef de Mission for the Aussie Olympic team moons ago.

Could be a different guy.

 

[Gnarly Gnasher]

Good article by Kimmage:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling-race-of-truth-keeps-rolling-3281852.html

This may have been posted before. I'm only on page 21.

 

[thehog]

Good article by Kimmage:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling-race-of-truth-keeps-rolling-3281852.html

This may have been posted before. I'm only on page 21.

I doubt it. People a little slow around here. We don't pick things up in the press. Especially articles written by Kimmage in the Kimmage thread.

 

[python]

My gut feeling is not to trust the uci initiative re Coates.

Many reasons...the first and the most obvious, the uci went for a thru and thru politician with 'connections'

Second, the uci is still calling the shots and making the calls to those Coates has suggested. Is Coates not capable of making calls by himself?

Third, the terms of reference, the key in the investigation scope, have deliberately been overshadowed (and never communicated) by the uci spinning focus on the personality of Mr. Coates

Fourth, Coates has recommended the same flawed approach to Olympic doping as the team sky, that is, signing some worthless papers about not doping, before allowing ozzis into any Olympics.

I smell bs

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

My gut feeling is not to trust the uci initiative re Coates.

Many reasons...the first and the most obvious, the uci went for a thru and thru politician with 'connections'

Second, the uci is still calling the shots and making the calls to those Coates has suggested. Is Coates not capable of making calls by himself?

Third, the terms of reference, the key in the investigation scope, have deliberately been overshadowed (and never communicated) by the uci spinning focus on the personality of Mr. Coates

Fourth, Coates has recommended the same flawed approach to Olympic doping as the team sky, that is, signing some worthless papers about not doping, before allowing ozzis into any Olympics.

I smell bs

Totally.

This is a PR exercise. Sweep it back under the carpet.

What we need is the media to raise the concerns about the inquiry and not let the UCI get away with their bull****.

The UCI has got the pot of whitewash out and its got its painter.

 

[Racelap]

Hope Rides Again.

 

[thirteen]

I doubt it. People a little slow around here. We don't pick things up in the press. Especially articles written by Kimmage in the Kimmage thread.

it's been posted at least 2 or 3 times.

no need to be snarky, hog. just because this thread does not have the substance of the previous deleted thread, doesn't mean you need to poo-poo it. there was a lot of passion and indignation, excellent discussion, and people enthusiastic to support an underdog who's only wrong was to speak the truth... a pity it wasn't resurrected.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Fourth, Coates has recommended the same flawed approach to Olympic doping as the team sky, that is, signing some worthless papers about not doping, before allowing ozzis into any Olympics.

I smell bs

Just to clarify, a stat dec is a legal document, and far more legally binding than the Sky paper.

To wit,

http://www.ag.gov.au/Statutorydeclarations/Documents/Statutory Declaration PDF.PDF
Note 1 Aperson who intentionally makes a false statement in a statutory declaration is guilty of an offence, the punishment for
which is imprisonment for a term of 4 years — see section 11 of the Statutory Declarations Act 1959.

ETA: I haven't read the Act - there may be outs - but my impression from having used stat decs before is you don't take them lightly.

ETA #2: If they can get away with "I have never tested positive" they should be good to go yeah?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Just to clarify, a stat dec is a legal document, and far more legally binding than the Sky paper.

To wit,

I'm not disagreeing with you.

The variations on the conditions where an athlete can use the phrase "never tested positive" is infinite. But what if a sports federation under the Olympic umbrella conveniently loses a doping positive? Or what if they decide the case isn't strong enough? Or what if a federation doesn't want to leave a podium contender at home?

This is Vrijman all over again.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

My gut feeling is not to trust the uci initiative re Coates.

Ha - had to laugh when I read this, sadly I have the same feeling even if I cannot yet declare why.

Many reasons...the first and the most obvious, the uci went for a thru and thru politician with 'connections'

Second, the uci is still calling the shots and making the calls to those Coates has suggested. Is Coates not capable of making calls by himself?

Third, the terms of reference, the key in the investigation scope, have deliberately been overshadowed (and never communicated) by the uci spinning focus on the personality of Mr. Coates

Fourth, Coates has recommended the same flawed approach to Olympic doping as the team sky, that is, signing some worthless papers about not doping, before allowing ozzis into any Olympics.

I smell bs

I suppose, I will continue to wait to see who the final selection are and more importantly their terms of reference - it does seem as though it will be restricted.

But the subsequent law suits against HV/PMcQ are where the real battle is.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

It has too many echoes of other sporting 'investigations' ie FIFA bribery/Blatter investigation, previous UCI investigations, various IOC investigations.

 

[Velodude]

My gut feeling is not to trust the uci initiative re Coates.

Many reasons...the first and the most obvious, the uci went for a thru and thru politician with 'connections'

Second, the uci is still calling the shots and making the calls to those Coates has suggested. Is Coates not capable of making calls by himself?

Third, the terms of reference, the key in the investigation scope, have deliberately been overshadowed (and never communicated) by the uci spinning focus on the personality of Mr. Coates

Fourth, Coates has recommended the same flawed approach to Olympic doping as the team sky, that is, signing some worthless papers about not doping, before allowing ozzis into any Olympics.

I smell bs

If it is of any contribution and interest John Coates loathes cycling.

On the statutory declaration. IMHO you can only produce in a statutory declaration about your position concerning past events. You can only commit a crime of perjury when you are aware at the time of signing a statutory declaration or affidavit the content was untrue.

That would require probing into the declarant's mindset at the time of swearing.

A document relating to future events would be an undertaking or promise.

 

[thirteen]

If you think SKINS is wrong to sue the UCI, read this.

 

[Willy_Voet]

If you think SKINS is wrong to sue the UCI, read this.

I love it. I would love it even more if other sponsors joined the lawsuit and put some serious $$ muscle behind it. Perhaps Rabobank could fire a parting shot at the UCI. Vroomen? Trek, Nike (since they were all betrayed and whatnot)?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Given this is unlikely to go away any time soon, what are the chances that UCI are actually embarassing the other sports using Switzerland as a base, and even Switzerland itself?

Any possibility the Swiss do a NoTW number on the heads of the UCI for tainting their country's good name?

Am I allowed to do a thehog?

"Sport has to take more robust action against corruption in its own ranks," the government said in a statement, adding that measures such as making fraud in sport a criminal offence were being considered.

"What is at stake is not just sport's integrity but also Switzerland's reputation as the home to numerous international sports associations."

Thought this bit was curious:

ZURICH, Nov 7 (Reuters) - Switzerland is considering tightening the rules to prevent match-fixing and cheating in sport, including possibly amending legislation to make Swiss-based international associations subject to Swiss criminal law.

From this am I to understand the sporting bodies are not subject to Swiss criminal law? No wonder they like to set up shop there...

 

[Tinman]

the Swiss anticipating your thinking DW:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/swiss-sport-corruption-idUSL5E8M7CC620121107

 

[DirtyWorks]

If it is of any contribution and interest John Coates loathes cycling.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just interested in more information.

#1. I don't know one way or the other, do you have some evidence you can link to?

#2. A veteran IOC/FIFA money-side insider who freely admitted to bribing IOC members to land the Sydney Games is hardly a trustworthy figure.

#3 The most likely thing an IOC insider will do is manufacture a conclusion where Pat and Hein are not even mentioned as instigators of this mess and then go onto strongly recommend new rules.

On the statutory declaration. IMHO you can only produce in a statutory declaration about your position concerning past events. You can only commit a crime of perjury when you are aware at the time of signing a statutory declaration or affidavit the content was untrue.

That would require probing into the declarant's mindset at the time of swearing.

A document relating to future events would be an undertaking or promise.

It sounds to me like a classic IOC response. Generate more meaningless paperwork that's really just more anti-doping theater. Is that about right?

If only Rabbo would wade into the litigation pool like SKINS have. But, then I wonder if the DS-level on down would break omerta for Rabbo. They've been around so long I'm sure they have dirt. Maybe proxy the scandalous stuff through Kimmage?

 

[MarkvW]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just interested in more information.

#1. I don't know one way or the other, do you have some evidence you can link to?

#2. A veteran IOC/FIFA money-side insider who freely admitted to bribing IOC members to land the Sydney Games is hardly a trustworthy figure.

#3 The most likely thing an IOC insider will do is manufacture a conclusion where Pat and Hein are not even mentioned as instigators of this mess and then go onto strongly recommend new rules.



It sounds to me like a classic IOC response. Generate more meaningless paperwork that's really just more anti-doping theater. Is that about right?

The selection of an IOC guy really does indicate just how valuable the Olympics are to the UCI. It also seems to be a pretty sharp disavowal of McBruggen's earlier attack on the WADA Code.

To me, this also sends the signal that the UCI is going to do just enough to keep the IOC happy, and not a bit more.

 

[cathulu]

Stat decs are worthless in my experience of contract administration.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The selection of an IOC guy really does indicate just how valuable the Olympics are to the UCI. It also seems to be a pretty sharp disavowal of McBruggen's earlier attack on the WADA Code.

To me, this also sends the signal that the UCI is going to do just enough to keep the IOC happy, and not a bit more.

Per TheHog's post elsewhere, apparently Richard Pound has clarified Coates' role a bit. Mr. Pound says that Coates will assemble the panel and that's it. I'm not optimistic, but let's see what outcome the IOC is trying to pre-select with Coates' appointments.

Also per the Irish cycling thread, the way the UCI congress appears to work, there won't be much time between the possible conclusion of the report and the nomination of the next president. It's clear to me that the way the UCI's national committees work is very slow.

I read that as the report release date slipping a bit and Pat getting reelected via another national cycling federation. After that the report is released, there's a teeny tiny bit of controversy and nothing has changed.

Check the irish cycling thread for a very informative interview and good information on the process.

 

[thirteen]

Neil Browne ‏@neilroad

An interesting convo w/ @jaimiefuller of Skins - It's not about the $$ for him but changing the culture of cycling

i asked and the conversation is currently being transcribed, an article coming soon.

 

[thirteen]

SKINS Chairman ‏@jaimiefuller

love the fact that betsy knows about our action with the uci. she says that getting rid of hein and pat must be step #1 http://www.wjcu.org/files/audio/shows/outspokencyclist/wjcu-the_outspoken_cyclist_2012-11-10.mp3 …

 

[Gnarly Gnasher]

I doubt it. People a little slow around here. We don't pick things up in the press. Especially articles written by Kimmage in the Kimmage thread.

This is why my post count is low. And is likely to stay that way.