http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kohl-confirms-manager-bribed-anti-doping-labs
Can Kohl be believed? Does this really happen? Is anyone surprised?
Can Kohl be believed? Does this really happen? Is anyone surprised?
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Posted it http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2827&page=2 here already a while ago...
to respond to your questions: yes, yes, no
to respond to your questions: yes, yes, no
Bala Verde said:
I guess I'm stunned iust how filthy this sport is. Questioning why I give a sh!t.
I believe Kohl, he seems to be a case of:
I'm going down? Screw you guys, I wasn't alone in this so you guys are going down too.
I'm going down? Screw you guys, I wasn't alone in this so you guys are going down too.
clydesdale said:
Well, maybe the punk will take down the entire system... but, it will just pop up somewhere else. At this point I don't think anything can be done. It's like the "war on drugs" in the US. It's so wide spread.... what can be done that will result in a meaningful change? I'm at a loss.
clydesdale said:
And if Matschiner is still very involved in track and field it makes you wonder about that too. Geez....
This is everyday. The fact that the feds leak the information of what lab is being used is a part of the problem. I all this was sent to an accounting firm instead of back and forth between cycling thugs lots more riders would come up positive. This was a mid level German team, imagine the pressure everybody is under for the biggest names in the sport. This years tour had more press and TV coverage than the last 5 tours combined. The hits on sites for Jens Voight, Lance Armstrong were in the top ten for a week. The UCI and all it's corrupt clowns know not to kill too many golden geese while gathering their bankrolls. This bribe was paid by a team imagine the money that changes hands from the race promoters and cycling feds. Don't feel sorry for Kohl but ask yourself the same question he is why are they picking on me when there is so much guilt to go around. Did they wait until all the cash was collected before DiLuca was announced ?
fatandfast said:
+over 9000
EDIT: It wasn't Kohl who spilled the beans, it was his manager. Kohl merely confirmed. Here's an excerpt from CN's little story:
"Matschiner is a former track athlete and was still heavily involved in the track and field scene. In connection with the track world championships starting this weekend in Berlin, he told the German television broadcaster ARD that he had bribed lab workers."
I love it. Kohl pulled the pin and threw the grenade and its about time someone did. For years the "stick you head in the sand" crowd has been droning on and on about how it "can't be that bad" and "you just hate cycling for saying that" and "people like Dr Ferrari are just great at testing HCT or telling you how to ride up a hill" and "blah, blah, blah." HEY DOROTHY, YOU AREN"T IN KANSAS ANYMORE!!!!!!
Now, someone go tell Phil, Paul, and Bob what they already know and have known this whole time.
Now, someone go tell Phil, Paul, and Bob what they already know and have known this whole time.
Folks will continue to believe that only the "cynics" and "conspricacy theorists" are talking about the corruption in cycling that seemingly runs from top to bottom in the sport. I just chatted with a pal who is quite involved in Track and Field and I have little doubt that it is as drug-fueled as cycling (or both kinds of football, baseball, tennis et al). It's the general public's naivete, outright gullibility and tendency to attack anyone who speaks about the realities of drugs in sport that kills me.
Here is the real rub though. It is dirty, dirty as hell. It infests all sports, and it is worse than most imagine EVERYWHERE. Now, what will we do about it? Cause here is my hypocrisy, I still watch. If sponsors know that moral outrage is not followed up by a decrease in the viewership, then they could care two cents about our moral outrage. I still watch football and I still watch cycling. Therefore the human billboards are putting their sponsor's products right where they want them, in my face. See, sport may be about competition to me, but it is about money to everyone else except for us the riders. And if you can come up with a realistic way to change that, let everyone know.
Fact is that my dislike of people like Armstrong and FLandis revolves around their lies and the people they have hurt with them.
Maybe when the reality is swallowed by more people, the moral outrage will result in decrease in viewership and popularity of the sport. Up until this point, it is the minority who fully accepted the reality that is the sport of cycling or any other sport. The majority are still childish enough to believe in fairy tales. The sport has a vested interest in maintaining the fairy tale because they don't know either how people will react if they find out.
Here is what I'd say to them. Based on my response to it, they have nothing to worry about.
Fact is that my dislike of people like Armstrong and FLandis revolves around their lies and the people they have hurt with them.
Maybe when the reality is swallowed by more people, the moral outrage will result in decrease in viewership and popularity of the sport. Up until this point, it is the minority who fully accepted the reality that is the sport of cycling or any other sport. The majority are still childish enough to believe in fairy tales. The sport has a vested interest in maintaining the fairy tale because they don't know either how people will react if they find out.
Here is what I'd say to them. Based on my response to it, they have nothing to worry about.
This is beyond cheating you know, this is criminal. Super low-life. As if conscious doping was not bad enough.
A would Kohl be the only one?
A would Kohl be the only one?
Imagine the sums paid out by Armstrong, Discovery and Astana over the years. That would explain his donation of "more than six figures" to the UCI in 2005 to "help fight doping."fatandfast said:
I like that last part... help fight doping.
They guy's got a raw sense of humor.
Serbski said:
And having a seperate board to discuss issues of doping is kind of another form of marginalization. By setting it apart from discussions of pro cycling, the mods have, well, set it apart from discussions of pro cycling.
I think an unintended result of this is that it becomes easy for a lot of people to think "Oh The Clinic. That's where the crazy tin-foil hatters make up stuff about the guy I like." Makes it easier to just brush the doping issue aside.
I dunno. My allergies are raging today, so I'm not runnin on all cylinders.
The procedures sound very reasonable. I don't know what reasons he would have to lie about it. So, IMO I would believe what he is saying.Scott SoCal said:
To rectify some 'unfound claims', Kohl's team did not bribe anyone (as far as we know), but Kohl's personal supplier/manager Matschiner did, so as to figure out the acceptable limits for micro-dosing.
The labs were asscoiated with WADA, in Eastern Europe. It wouldn't surprise me if more 'suppliers' (Santucchini, di Luca's dr, Fuentes?) have used these methods. I doubt that teams nowadays would be involved in such affairs, except maybe for condoning/ignoring certain anomalies...
The labs were asscoiated with WADA, in Eastern Europe. It wouldn't surprise me if more 'suppliers' (Santucchini, di Luca's dr, Fuentes?) have used these methods. I doubt that teams nowadays would be involved in such affairs, except maybe for condoning/ignoring certain anomalies...
Bala Verde said:
What about Holczer in all of this? Could he really be that blind?
"Holczer, who switched careers to get into cycling (he used to be a teacher), does not have the traditional cycling background. He wants to do away with all team managers, soigneurs and doctors who are connected with doping.
He mentions that during the last meeting with the UCI in Geneva there were still a lot of "conspicuous blood values of Spanish and Portuguese riders." It is a sign for him that "some still haven't gotten it." That's why he doesn't want to create the vision that there is going to be a clean Tour, though he thinks it will be cleaner."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/holczer-cycling-is-destroying-itself
Kohl said he had acted alone, and insisted that Hans-Michael Holczer, his former boss at German team Gerolsteiner, knew nothing about his use of Cera.
“There was no systematic doping. Holczer knew nothing about it.”
http://www.bicycle.net/2008/tour-de-france-podium-finisher-bernard-kohl-admits-to-doping
Hard to believe Holczer knew nothing....
These are not "cycling laboratories" or "UCI laboratories". These are just laboratories what have accreditation from WADA. Usually these laboratories do lot of stuff, not just dope test. Usually these are university laboratories and if they have equipent and knowledge and wish to get some extra revenue, they apply for WADA accreditation.
I dont also believe that Kohl´s manager bribed laboratory, probably he bribed some corrupt worker or technician from laboratory.
I dont also believe that Kohl´s manager bribed laboratory, probably he bribed some corrupt worker or technician from laboratory.
Scott SoCal said:What about Holczer in all of this? Could he really be that blind?
"Holczer, who switched careers to get into cycling (he used to be a teacher), does not have the traditional cycling background. He wants to do away with all team managers, soigneurs and doctors who are connected with doping.
He mentions that during the last meeting with the UCI in Geneva there were still a lot of "conspicuous blood values of Spanish and Portuguese riders." It is a sign for him that "some still haven't gotten it." That's why he doesn't want to create the vision that there is going to be a clean Tour, though he thinks it will be cleaner."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/holczer-cycling-is-destroying-itself
Kohl said he had acted alone, and insisted that Hans-Michael Holczer, his former boss at German team Gerolsteiner, knew nothing about his use of Cera.
“There was no systematic doping. Holczer knew nothing about it.”
http://www.bicycle.net/2008/tour-de-france-podium-finisher-bernard-kohl-admits-to-doping
Hard to believe Holczer knew nothing....
Not really, what is easy to believe is that he didn't want to know. There is a world of difference between not looking hard enough in an effort to maintain plausible deniability and being duped. That is where the truth probably lies.
Thoughtforfood said:
Hallellujah brotha!!!
The truth shall set you free from the blindness
Remember when Sinkewitz said Bettini had friends that warned him when he was going to be tested? Yeah.
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