Kreuziger going down?

[PeterB]

Which would indicate that RK's number would have to be pretty crazy to make it past two review boards and two passes through the software. Hopefully this appeal to CAS gives the public a view at how crazy his numbers were as currently we have nothing

I found this, but could not get to the source

Does it make any sense?

[btw - the graph should refer to Kreuziger, Sky riders are there probably just by coincidence...]

EDIT: for the record, this site has eventually been identified as the source of illustration http://www.doping.chuv.ch/en/lad_home/lad-prestations-laboratoire/lad-prestations-laboratoirepasseport/lad-prestations-laboratoire-passeport-passeport-hemato.html and it arguably refers to anonymous athlete, not Kreuziger

 

[thehog]

I found this, but could not get to the source

Does it make any sense?

[btw - the graph should refer to Kreuziger, Sky riders are there probably just by coincidence...]

Interesting. From Inring.com.

Needs to read more it to it but the values are fairly stable but need to look deeper and plug the numbers into Excel. My assumption is each graph represents the two "suspected" periods.

 

[Race Radio]

I found this, but could not get to the source

Does it make any sense?

[btw - the graph should refer to Kreuziger, Sky riders are there probably just by coincidence...]

Does not make much sense. The off score and Hgb numbers look mostly normal, except the left hand side. The rest don't make sense

 

[neineinei]

Has anyone else that has been banned (for the first time) over a passport case received more than 2 years?

I have a hard time imagining that (UCI has evidence of) Kreuziger did something all the others didn't.

...

Since Menchov was stripped of results in multiple Tours, you'd expect this one to count for him:



But he still only got 2 years.

"a period of ineligibility of between 2 and 4 years" might just be the standard "charge".

IAAF have dealt out four-year sanctions in ABP cases to those who didn't cooperate, that is admitted guilt. They have even taken a case to CAS when the national federation only gave two years.

http://www.iaaf.org/news/press-release/six-new-athletes-sanctioned-under-the-iaaf-at
http://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/iaaf-obtains-4-year-sanction-on-appeal-in-its

So it is within the current CODE to hand out four-year sanctions in ABP cases. UCI has only given two years though. (Except for Bertagnolli, who got ten months extra and also lost all results from 2003 to 2011.)
For Valjavec UCI asked for minimum three years at CAS (p. 9), but only got two.

In the Valjavec CAS ruling both the length of the ban and the disqualification of results are discussed, see p. 30/31

Somewhere in the UCI rule book it says it is unfair to take away results in competitions where there isn't proof that the cyclist was doped for that competition. This probably gave the strange annulling of results for Menchov (and Leipheimer and JTL for instance). In athletics they loose all results from the first anomalety up until the sanction starts.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Does not make much sense. The off score and Hgb numbers look mostly normal, except the left hand side. The rest don't make sense

JTL type situation maybe ?
The normal later scores highlight the initial abnormality, but its on a much smaller scale. 119 Offscore really isn't that out of whack. Suspicious but not a slam dunk.

There must be more somewhere.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Does not make much sense. The off score and Hgb numbers look mostly normal, except the left hand side. The rest don't make sense

Dates would help, but yes it doesn't scream obvious doper the way that JTL's initial data points did.
Also it would be nice to see the ret% plot

 

[Benotti69]

from @spitinthesoup

Kreuziger won the 2013 Amstel Gold Race

If disqualified the new winner will be former (?) doper Alejandro Valverde

Kreuziger won Stage 19 of the 2012 Giro d´Italia

If disqualified the new winner will be former (?) doper Ryder Hesjedal

Kreuziger won stage 4 of the 2011 Giro del Trentino

If disqualified the new winner will be former (?) doper Emanuele Sella

This sport still has a long long long way to go before it has any credibility

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Laughable stuff.
They really should just remove the winner in these situations.

 

[TomasC]

Roman Kreuziger made a website about his case, put online all the documents, biological passport data etc. Don't have time to look now..
http://kreuziger.a1.esports.cz/?lang=en_us

 

[TomasC]

Here's the ABP data, but the values are NOT identified with dates (if I can see well).
So we can't actually map the values with races.
PR BS

 

[LaFlorecita]

I am not an expert, but damn, I've got to say those graphs seem rather spiky.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Roman Kreuziger made a website about his case, put online all the documents, biological passport data etc. Don't have time to look now..
http://kreuziger.a1.esports.cz/?lang=en_us

Thank you.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Clearly it's useless as a single individual's data point, but excuse me while my retics % slowly increases over time...

Also: that hump.

There are so many data points that I can only imagine this is his complete retics profile. And it's increasing, constantly, with a ridiculous hump in the middle that looks like it could be the time period in question ie when his alleged offences occurred.

Now he might and is still claiming hypothyroid function problems, but did not note the medication on his sample submission form, so he's either patently lying or significantly stupid.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Here's the ABP data, but the values are NOT identified with dates (if I can see well).
So we can't actually map the values with races.
PR BS

I'm guessing but the y axis could 52 weeks in the year in question where he was at Astana.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm guessing but the y axis could 52 weeks in the year in question where he was at Astana.

Except no rider gets tested every week. Average OOC are 3 pa - so 21 of them could be from the past 7 years of ABP, leaving 31 for competition results.

This explanation makes far more sense to me.

Plus he has put the title "BIOLOGICAL PASSPORT – ROMAN KREUZIGER" over the top of the graphs, so it ain't internal testing results.

 

[PeterB]

In fact, almost all samples are referred to specific dates in the experts' papers (see Iniesta). In particular:

Sample 44 11-04-2012 No competition 15,5 1,56%
Sample 45 24-04-2012 Tour de Romandie 16,4 1,58%
Sample 46 03-05-2012 Pre-Giro 15 1,46%
Sample 47 14-05-2012 Giro 14,5 1,44%
Sample 48 20-05-2012 Giro 14,8 1,52%
Sample 49 24-05-2012 Giro 16,1 1,4%

Two last samples are from 2013 season. Data start with 2008 samples:

Sample 1 30/04/2008 Tour de Romandie 15,4 1,15%
Sample 2 03/07/2008 Pre-Tour 14,9 0,88%
Sample 3 15/07/2008 Tour de France 14,8 0,99%

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Except no rider gets tested every week.

I think the top and bottom line mezni hodnoty are just upper and lower limits
- fitted or advised - don't know which.

The middle line is not every week.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think the top and bottom line mezni hodnoty are just upper and lower limits
- fitted or advised - don't know which.

The middle line is not every week.

except it is.

the numbers refer to the number of each sample

 

[LaFlorecita]

who came up with this

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I think the top and bottom line mezni hodnoty are just upper and lower limits
- fitted or advised - don't know which.

The middle line is not every week.

You wrote they could be one for every week when he was at Astana - I point out they don't get tested very week - and now you're talking about the top and bottom lines being limits (which I've known since forever).

At least one of us is now majorly confused.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

In fact, almost all samples are referred to specific dates in the experts' papers (see Iniesta). In particular:

Sample 44 11-04-2012 No competition 15,5 1,56%
Sample 45 24-04-2012 Tour de Romandie 16,4 1,58%
Sample 46 03-05-2012 Pre-Giro 15 1,46%
Sample 47 14-05-2012 Giro 14,5 1,44%
Sample 48 20-05-2012 Giro 14,8 1,52%
Sample 49 24-05-2012 Giro 16,1 1,4%

Two last samples are from 2013 season. Data start with 2008 samples:

Sample 1 30/04/2008 Tour de Romandie 15,4 1,15%
Sample 2 03/07/2008 Pre-Tour 14,9 0,88%
Sample 3 15/07/2008 Tour de France 14,8 0,99%

Thanks that's awesome. And it looks like my guess was correct. But dayam that's a long time into the season for his first ever BP test ffs.

Someone will map them all out properly, I look forward to seeing the analysis on that.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

For a millionaire pro athlete he sure skimped on the hosting company. That site is slower than a wet week.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

You wrote they could be one for every week when he was at Astana - I point out they don't get tested very week - and now you're talking about the top and bottom lines being limits (which I've known since forever).

At least one of us is now majorly confused.

moi? Mine's just a causal drop-in.
I bow to your expertise.
Thanks for your patience.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

moi? Mine's just a causal drop-in.
I bow to your expertise.
Thanks for your patience.

Yeah not sure if you've slipped into sarcasm now, but the flow of the conversation had you making a claim then leaping off on a tangent after I cast doubt on that claim. I couldn't follow. I don't claim to be an expert and any appearance of same is unintentional.

 

[LaFlorecita]

For a millionaire pro athlete he sure skimped on the hosting company. That site is slower than a wet week.

it's not slow for me?