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LA returning to "traditional preparation"

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Aug 13, 2009
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British Pro Cycling said:
If you didn't this time it's definitely a legacy of the trouble you caused. It's not a lie. You've begged for me to be banned many times. Then you claim I'm free to say what I like. You're a hypocrite.

The fact is, you couldn't even answer most of the points I made. All you did is try to disrupts threads in order to bait me. In fact I've been warned by a regular poster that you and TFF do this regularly and I shouldn't rise to it. He knows what you've been up to.

You're a couple of hateful trolls.

You have never made any points that can be answered, you only troll. That is why many posters call you out and report you. Your obsession with me is yet further evidence of your psychosis.

Based on past history it does not appear you can move beyond the petty trolling and baiting. It is no wonder you keep getting banned.
 
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Anonymous

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Meanwhile, in Mom's basement.....

http://s.bebo.com/app-image/7941096349/5411656627/PROFILE/i.quizzaz.com/img/q/u/08/05/01/lead-toys-lol-***.jpg


THE THREAD DISRUPTOR!!
 
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Anonymous

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Back on topic.

Is Lance's limited/edited programme the factor in his underwhelming performance this year? Or, is it age? Both perhaps? Is the passport "working" in his case?
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Back on topic.

Is Lance's limited/edited programme the factor in his underwhelming performance this year? Or, is it age? Both perhaps? Is the passport "working" in his case?

I think it was a combination of increased testing and he came into the Tour too light. Lost power in the TT's.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Is anyone aware of how LA's "programme" has evolved over the years? I'm thinking he does not respond as well to the edited version he was on this year versus past years. Passport perhaps? It could also be that AC is better than anyone LA faced during his run which would be a more logical explaination.

There was just something about LA that was off. I saw him at the ToC and he was not real impressive, didn't look great at the Giro (injury, I know) and really only looked formidable on the Ventoux at the TdF. With a pumpkin sized heart, off the chart VO2, a system that uber processes lactic acid, superior training methods, the F1 team, the cadence... he just looked pedestrian this year, so I'm wondering....

The last paragraph is what I was alluding to earlier in reply to BigBoat. Lance ain't what he used to be and what the riders can do on a pharmacological level simply can't make up what he naturally looses over Contador and Schleck. Off the chart VO2 max....not for an elite cyclist, sure it is very high, but nothing to indicate he has an advantage. Low 80's around the 82-84 mark. Same as Basso give or take a point and probably where most of the GC boys sit...low 80s. Hinault and LeMond beat that by a whole 10ml/min/kg. Freaks go over 90. I also see no reason why Contaor wouldn't be near or just over the 90 mark given how much better he is than the rest on the climbs and ITT. Yeah there is the doping idea and a major lack of clarity and reference points, but we just don't know do we? So until proven otherwise I'll stick with the idea Contador is naturally better. Who here didn't think that he really didn't need a team this year?

Personally I thought it was obvious before the tour LA wouldn't challenge, either this year or next. He can claim he would have won on his 2001, 2004 form but who cares, todays rules are the key and he showed he can't win, regardless of the matter of a TTT. He won't make up enough time next year if its included to win. Be interesting to see the cracks appear when he cannot react to the attacks. I'm thinking a minor mental breakdown might be forecast on the horizon. For the sanity of many I hope LA never touches the maillot jaune, the press and fanboys would go ape$h!t.

Regarding VO2max, I've heard rumours Cadel Evans has the highest tested score at the AIS. Not sure what it is, heard it was overjust over 90 on this forum (nothing to verify with). I know Gerrans recorded 80 @ the VIS, so to feed my curiosity, I was wondering if anyone can confirm what Cadels VO2max is or whether the AIS rumour is bull$h1t?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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I thought the twitter psyops during the Tour actually said more about Armstrong's mental fragility than Contador's. He simply couldn't touch him, on or off the bike - must be tough to come up against someone who is not only better but mentally tougher than you.

But that's the difference between a real talent and a made one, I suppose.
 
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bianchigirl said:
I thought the twitter psyops during the Tour actually said more about Armstrong's mental fragility than Contador's. He simply couldn't touch him, on or off the bike - must be tough to come up against someone who is not only better but mentally tougher than you.

But that's the difference between a real talent and a made one, I suppose.

+1...............
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Basso posted his VO2 figures on that SRM/mapei website. The latest results were for Nov 2008 I think, so it's easy to look up what his exact numbers are.
 
Jul 28, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Armstrong could not even come close to Contador in the ITTs, a discipline that should not have been affected much by his age.

I'm at a loss to explain that, go back 4 or 5 years Lance put 40 seconds in to Cancellara..in the Prologue :D (someone recently defended this by talking about what they could dumbell curl. Irrefutable logic I stand corrected).

Is there really something to this blood passport? No more completely outrageous blood values? If the private Vaughters/Andreu conversation is anything to go by LA was hitting the juice super hard and ramming "everyone does it" down all team members throats incessantly.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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I totally respect everyone's right to hate on Lance. Does anyone really think he has ever had an unfair competitive advantage over his competition?

Seems to me like he simply did everything a little better than his peers over the TDF runs.
 
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sagard said:
I totally respect everyone's right to hate on Lance. Does anyone really think he has ever had an unfair competitive advantage over his competition?

Seems to me like he simply did everything a little better than his peers over the TDF runs.

It is much less about that, and much more about the fact that he is an unrelenting prick. Like many, when he chased down Simeoni, I saw the type of person he really is, and have never looked back.
 
May 17, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
It is much less about that, and much more about the fact that he is an unrelenting prick. Like many, when he chased down Simeoni, I saw the type of person he really is, and have never looked back.
Exactly. .
 
Jul 19, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
It is much less about that, and much more about the fact that he is an unrelenting prick. Like many, when he chased down Simeoni, I saw the type of person he really is, and have never looked back.
It's not only with Simeoni... that is with everyone who not agree with him : reporters, Bassons, labs, French, ... or who don't accept his multiple tales and lies.
Don't forget he uses too much water !:D
 
cromagnon said:
I'm at a loss to explain that, go back 4 or 5 years Lance put 40 seconds in to Cancellara..in the Prologue :D (someone recently defended this by talking about what they could dumbell curl. Irrefutable logic I stand corrected).

Is there really something to this blood passport? No more completely outrageous blood values? If the private Vaughters/Andreu conversation is anything to go by LA was hitting the juice super hard and ramming "everyone does it" down all team members throats incessantly.

It could be a combination of two things. One, the passport may limit the blood manipulation that can go on. Perhaps Armstrong is only able to use half as much blood as before. Second, there are now many drugs that are no longer safe to use. ACTH was tested for this year. The isotope test for testosterone is sometimes being used without the initial T:TE ratio screen. There supposedly is a test for HGH, although no on has failed it. And there is always a chance that a new surprise test could be used at the Tour or be used for retrotesting. Kohl said he only dared to use blood transfusions during the Tour. So what we may be seeing is a reduction in the amount and types of doping that were standard practice a few years ago. This could have significant effects on fatigue over the course of a GT compared to what a rider like Armstrong is used to.

Armstrong's performance was opposite of what I expected. I thought he would still be able to time trial very close to the top men but his climbing would have suffered with age. Although his climbing may not be as good as the results suggest. The course did give much opportunity for multiple, aggressive attacks. Ventoux was a procession.
 
sagard said:
I totally respect everyone's right to hate on Lance. Does anyone really think he has ever had an unfair competitive advantage over his competition?

Armstrong paid Dr. Ferrari not to "train" his TdF rivals. There had to be a reason for that.

My own suspicion about Armstrong is that he was always ahead of the curve. The difference in the numbers of positives for EPO in the samples from the 1998 and 1999 Tours show that there was a huge reduction in the use of the drug during the race in 1999. All the prologue samples were positive, indicating that most riders probably shot up right before the race but were too afraid of police raids to carry the drug during the race like they used to. Armstrong's large number of positives for EPO indicate that he had an advantage over others.

In the very early 00s there were rumors that a few teams were using artificial hemoglobin. At some point inter-Tour transfusions became standard practice. I think it is likely that Postal was ahead of the other teams by a couple of years on these changes in doping. Armstrong was always searching for "the shit that will kill them." Once Ullrich and Basso begain using transfusions in 2003, they got much much more competitive. Ullrich easily could have won in 2003. We do not have a clear idea of how good he was in 2004 because he was sick for the first half of the race and in 2005 he crashed twice. By 2006 Basso was superman, able to ride people off his wheel merely by raising his pace instead of attacking. Also in 2006 when the exclusive contract with Dr. Ferrari was no longer in force, FLandis took a giant leap upward. The same can be said for Vino.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Armstrong paid Dr. Ferrari not to "train" his TdF rivals. There had to be a reason for that.

My own suspicion about Armstrong is that he was always ahead of the curve. The difference in the numbers of positives for EPO...

I'm sure your right about Lance being ahead of the curve. I think his surviving cancer and learning so much about his body gave him a big leg up when selecting doctors for "training." Truthfully I think he also realized it was time to get out after the '05 tour, most of his rivals got busted following his departure.
 
Jul 28, 2009
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sagard said:
I'm sure your right about Lance being ahead of the curve. I think his surviving cancer and learning so much about his body gave him a big leg up when selecting doctors for "training." Truthfully I think he also realized it was time to get out after the '05 tour, most of his rivals got busted following his departure.

87 samples retested from TdF 1999. 13 EPO positives from the 87. Half all from one guy. Guess who. Motorbikes with refrigeration containers on the back (like you use to transport organs for transplants) used instead to transport blood to avoid suspicion and police raids on the team bus. At least according to ex team members. Ahead of the curve, you could say that. Takes a lot of money too.
 
sagard said:
I'm sure your right about Lance being ahead of the curve. I think his surviving cancer and learning so much about his body gave him a big leg up when selecting doctors for "training." Truthfully I think he also realized it was time to get out after the '05 tour, most of his rivals got busted following his departure.

His rivals getting busted had nothing to with refined testing, simply they got lucky with Manzano and this led to Police involvement. If it was up to the testers, Basso and Ullrich would never have gone down.
 
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Focusing on the TdF TT at Annecy, Ferrari expected LA to perform, I think, better than he did. Fatigue maybe?

"On the ascent to Verbier (638m of difference in height at 7.5%) Alberto Contador (62kg) climbed at 1852 m/h, equal to 6.73 w/kg, developing an average of 417w.

Lance Armstrong (72 kg) climbed at 1720 m/h, equal to 6.25 w/kg, developing 450w.

The difference between their VAM's is 7.4% in favor of Alberto, while Lance, whose body weight is 16% heavier, pushed 8% more watts: a suggestion that in the upcoming time trial in Annecy it could be a very close and uncertain duel."


Ferrari disagrees with the Ventoux being raced at a "tame" rate:

"In the 17th stage, the hardest of the whole Tour, the best riders got to the top of Col du Romme (800m at an average gradient of 9%) with a VAM = 1798 m/h, equal to 6.20 w/kg, a demanding pace for every rider, except Contador.
In fact in the time trial the following day, all the main contenders (especially Armstrong and Nibali) lost important time from Alberto.

Two day later the first 5 km at 9.5% of Mt Ventoux were tackled at 1850 m/h (6.27 w/kg); followed by a slowing down in the following 5 km (7.8%) with a VAM= 1450m/h, while the last 5km at 8.6% were done at VAM = 1755 m/h, equal to 6.13 w/kg.
The latter being a remarkable performance considering the altitude and the headwind.


And Ferrari's TdF summary;

"ALBERTO CONTADOR dominated the TdF 2009, winning both on the climbs and in time trials, confirming his recent supremacy in stage races.

LANCE ARMSTRONG had a good Tour, with excellent uphill performances in the last week, showing us that his outstanding recovery skills are still there.

I read that during the "Grand Boucle" he had to raise the saddle of his bike, putting 2-4 mm higher than his usual measure in the past.
This may be due to a hip anteversion caused by his running practice in the last couple of years and/or a lower fat mass in the buttocks area.

BRADLEY WIGGINS was the surprise of this Tour: he was impressive in the 20' ascent to Verbier, while he still has to improve on longer climbs.
We've noticed the usual unjustified suspects on him too, but what probably struck more was the "license of virginity" he was promptly credited with by Pat McQuaid: I wouldn't want that this transformed into a "license of impunity"... "


The last highlighted part may be Ferrari "communicating" with Wiggins. Maybe this is the reason he needs to "take the next step up" by changing to a team that will allow a collaboration with Ferrari perhaps?

Just trying to connect the dots...
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
BRADLEY WIGGINS was the surprise of this Tour: he was impressive in the 20' ascent to Verbier, while he still has to improve on longer climbs.
We've noticed the usual unjustified suspects on him too, but what probably struck more was the "license of virginity" he was promptly credited with by Pat McQuaid: I wouldn't want that this transformed into a "license of impunity"... "[/I]

The last highlighted part may be Ferrari "communicating" with Wiggins. Maybe this is the reason he needs to "take the next step up" by changing to a team that will allow a collaboration with Ferrari perhaps?

Just trying to connect the dots...
Impunity: exemption or freedom from punishment, harm, or loss <laws were flouted with impunity.

I dont think it has anything to do with Ferrari wanting Wiggins.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
I read that during the "Grand Boucle" he (LA) had to raise the saddle of his bike, putting 2-4 mm higher than his usual measure in the past.This may be due to a hip anteversion caused by his running practice in the last couple of years and/or a lower fat mass in the buttocks area.

Wouldn't a lower fat content lower his ride height? Unless he has more muscle there than in previous years. That bit doesn't seem sensible to me. Doesn't matter. Where did you find the quotes from Ferrari? You also mentioned ACTH earlier, can you give a brief explanation of how its used and its purpose in cycling. Looked it up but didn't find anything about cycling except that the cortisol component, helping with recovery when levels are too low.

BRADLEY WIGGINS was the surprise of this Tour: he was impressive in the 20' ascent to Verbier, while he still has to improve on longer climbs.
We've noticed the usual unjustified suspects on him too, but what probably struck more was the "license of virginity" he was promptly credited with by Pat McQuaid: I wouldn't want that this transformed into a "license of impunity"... "[/I]

The last highlighted part may be Ferrari "communicating" with Wiggins. Maybe this is the reason he needs to "take the next step up" by changing to a team that will allow a collaboration with Ferrari perhaps?

Just trying to connect the dots...

I thought as much with the thread I started the other day. Its not one thing the man has said but the cumulative weight of all his comments that left me thinking that he (foolishly) believes he can win the tour, but Garmin won't let him do certain things that are necessary to improve. However there is a new British Team who have publically declared they will win le Tour by 2014 and given the subsequent result this year, Wiggins believes the market will dictate that he should have a chance on a new team, that ironically would move heaven and earth to be led by a Brit GC contender. Sorry but no team can come into the sport fresh, make claims like they have in an already insidious and dubious sport and expect a reasonable person to believe they can expect performances of such a high pedigree without some quantifiable guarantee (medical program). Wiggins will not win the tour de France.

As for the Ferrari part, it is self justification based on VAM and power outputs (that are guesswork, albeit accurate to a degree) of his buddy Lance and his handiwork. Time is more important, it is the real measure of the race. Power output, VAM are all relative to only the person they measure, time is the real measure and technique. Lance's ITT was no shock, he was in similar form at the ToC and Giro, alright but not impressive. His technique showed it was not what it used to be (medical program can't make up for the physical deficiency he gives to superior guys anymore) and so too the clock. It must scare him that Andy Schleck was only 15 seconds behind in the final ITT, Nibali as well, given one climbed as well as he did and the other at a whole other level.