Lack of personalities in cycling

[RedheadDane]

Re:

many people here confuse humility with shyness. Introvert doesn't mean humble. there are a lot of introvert cyclists that are rude people.

In fact a very introverted person might end up giving a pretty rude answer if they get fed up with journalists constantly asking stupid questions.

 

[del1962]

Strangely everyone has a personality, just some are different from others.

Of the current cyclists however Cav comes across as the most interesting,

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Valverde can speak English? I've been told he can't which seemed incredulous. As much time as he spends amongst English speakers you'd think he'd obtain a base level of proficiency due to language osmosis

He knows some English, but does not know it very well. His English at best is pretty bad and very broken, but he does know a little of it. He will speak it to other riders in the peloton or his fans who don't know Spanish very well. However, he must be comfortable with you for him to speak it, otherwise he'll only speak Spanish. He's raced his entire career with Spanish speaking teams so it's not really that surprising he doesn't know English very well. Also there are many riders on that team that do not speak English at all. When Juan Jose Laboto signed with Lotto Jumbo last year he had to learn English because he didn't know it at all. Valverde also won't speak it to the media. He's not comfortable enough with it to even try and he doesn't want to have stuff taken out of context when he doesn't know what the correct word would be. I also remember Christian Vandervelde saying during a telecast that he learned Spanish so he could better communicate with specifically Valverde and Contador while he was racing because he was usually racing somewhere near them and figured it would be helpful to be able to speak to them. Also Froome has learned Spanish to more easily be able to speak to the Spanish speaking riders in the peloton.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Valverde can speak English? I've been told he can't which seemed incredulous. As much time as he spends amongst English speakers you'd think he'd obtain a base level of proficiency due to language osmosis

He's been on a team with (I presume) Spanish as it's "main language" pretty much his entire career. And since it still seems like a lot of Anglos live in Spain - and thus have learned some level of Spanish - he probably just communicates with in practically both languages at the same time.

Yes, you'd be correct. He has only ever raced for Spanish teams. After he aged out of Juniors he raced on season with the amateur Banesto team (yes amteur team of what is now Movistar that now longer exisits). Then moved to the Kelme amateur team then their pro team, then to Movistar. He's raced his entire career on Spanish teams that speak Spanish as their language.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Nibali also has a personality, he's always good for some drama. Just recently he called out Froome for riding like a "sprinter".

It takes more personality \ character climbing on the Astana bus during the 2015 Tour de France as did Froome to talk face-to-face with Nibali.

Froome is a coward that complains when other riders attack him on the road. He has no personality and that's why the majority of people don't like him and why it's becoming harder and harder to find sponsors for WT teams in cycling. The sport has become a bore. When somebody dares to attack him he tries to ride them off the road.

 

[Oude Geuze]

Froome has a great personality, honest, humble, fair and a bold attacking style. Hate towards is seldom warranted.

I do agree there are not a lot of “characters” in the sport, it selects for very strange sadistic introverts. Sagan almost quit as he found it boring. You need to enjoy solitude and pain in order to succeed. Most extroverted colorful people would rather do something else.

 

[CTQ]

Re: Re:

Nibali also has a personality, he's always good for some drama. Just recently he called out Froome for riding like a "sprinter".

It takes more personality \ character climbing on the Astana bus during the 2015 Tour de France as did Froome to talk face-to-face with Nibali.

Froome is a coward that complains when other riders attack him on the road. He has no personality and that's why the majority of people don't like him and why it's becoming harder and harder to find sponsors for WT teams in cycling. The sport has become a bore. When somebody dares to attack him he tries to ride them off the road.

you chose Nibali because he said something bad against Froome ...... and please, as you do not know the majority of people, do not speak for them.

 

[Tonton]

This discussion, and now Froome becomes the discussion is the parallel with Tennis that I mentioned, when Sampras ruled. So it's about Froome more than the peloton. And yes, Froome is not larger than life. Hinault comes up.

So I will tell you a story that I have written about before on the forum, and attest to the fact that cycling champions HAVE personalities.

1981: I rode some 30 km to Chaville in my team kit, race bike, all pumped up. That's where Paris-Tours was then: Blois-Chaville. In my back-pack (US military looking, called "sac US" then) some magazines and my autograph book (i.e. where the ones not in magazines can sign). I parked my bike against a bush near the finish line (in those times you didn't worry about scum stealing it) and saw the finish...that is five seconds and Jan Raas won.

Being used to road side Tour stages, I was bummed-up, but I followed the riders to a school or gymnasium close by. Somehow got in and found myself in the locker/shower room. My first order of business was to gather as many bottles as I could fit in my bag (mostly tea as I found out). Nice logos, much netter than my basic one, bragging material for sure .

Here I go with naked guys all around me, and the point was made that before helmets and sunglasses, fans knew the riders sooo much better. The Dutch were the best (maybe because they won). To this day, I believe that had Gerrie Knetemann undergone surgery and lost ten pounds by way of penile reduction, he would have become Pantani before there was Pantani .

I'm out there, getting autographs and avoiding water and shampoo that guys were throwing at each other...mega party. Then Hinault shows up. Talk about "the look"...that was Wanderlei Silva being territorial...scared the crap out of me. Then his faced changed from pure aggression to smirking to smiling, and he signed his picture on the magazine. A charater. Of course I was for him against Fignon. '86 not so much: you give your word...

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think that tennis is a very good paralel. One of the main things with cycling is that you're riding throughout the whole race, whereas in tennis the time that you're hitting balls is actually shorter than the time between points, so there is time to let off steam after every point. Also, in tennis, everyone speaks English well enough. And as for goofs in the match or race, Sagan doing wheelies when he's dropped is one of the very few things you can do on a bike, whereas tennis has a lot more room to be showy and stuff like that.

 

[spalco]

Re:

Valverde can speak English? I've been told he can't which seemed incredulous. As much time as he spends amongst English speakers you'd think he'd obtain a base level of proficiency due to language osmosis

Spanish people (and Italians too) are generally terrible at speaking English compared to western/northern and even central Europeans in my experience.

Lack of personalities, I don't know. I guess it's difficult in cycling to even express yourself in that way compared more action-packed sports like basketball or tennis. If a cyclist wears unusual colours, or a Giro leader rides a pink bike or someone makes flamboyant salutes when winning a stage it tends to look dorky or weird.

Also it's hard even for a good-looking man to look attractive on a bicycle wearing a skintight jersey and helmet.

 

[yaco]

Mario Cipollini is still a personality and he retired 12 years ago.

 

[Blanco]

Re:

Mario Cipollini is still a personality and he retired 12 years ago.

Mario Cipollini is a clown!

Tom Boonen is a personality, Contador also, Valverde... Heck, Cancellara is a personality, even though I don't like his personality...

 

[Tonton]

Re:

I don't think that tennis is a very good paralel. One of the main things with cycling is that you're riding throughout the whole race, whereas in tennis the time that you're hitting balls is actually shorter than the time between points, so there is time to let off steam after every point. Also, in tennis, everyone speaks English well enough. And as for goofs in the match or race, Sagan doing wheelies when he's dropped is one of the very few things you can do on a bike, whereas tennis has a lot more room to be showy and stuff like that.

Different sport, of course, but my point was about fan perception. McEnroe gone, there was a perceived void, Sampras was bland, and the same comments were made: today's players are boring.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Lots of personalities out there. Not all personalities are good, and plenty create talking points because of that.

Agree with hrotha that generally this often boils down to people wanting more a-holes, and preferably arrogant ones, hence the fact Riccò still gets talked about to this day, and why there are many fans that like Sagan and his "I don't care what I have to do to get attention, as long as people are looking at me" attitude. Nacer Bouhanni is a character, sure, but doesn't seem to inspire the same strong support as well as backlash. Cavendish a few years ago created the same divided opinion, between those who saw a cocky, brazen champion who was prepared to shoot from the hip, and those who saw an arrogant, entitled a-hole who needed bringing down a peg or two (especially when compared to the target of much of his abuse, André Greipel, who with a couple of exceptions conducted himself with far more class throughout their rivalry).

It also depends on what you want from "characters". Plenty of people just want people who make the sport more fun to watch, whether they be negative character types or positive ones. That's why you see strong opinions elicited over riders like Jens Voigt and Thomas Voeckler, while riders who have been far more successful than them see less discussion and attention unless their characterlessness becomes an actual defining feature that is the discussion point (such as with riders like Louis Meintjes this year). Vino is another example, a pantomime villain but for whom the intangible X-factor that he brought to the sport with his never-say-die attitude on the bike made him many fans simultaneously.

Ultimately, though, cycling is an endurance sport and a cast of thousands which doesn't have the global reach of football nor the high audience share in specific markets of the NFL. While teams can have central leaders that become their mouthpiece in the same way as, say, a quarterback in the NFL, you have to stand out among a pack of 120-200 at various races, not among a pack of 20 or so on the field at any one time. You aren't competing head to head with one adversary but in a battle royale with several, and as a result you also have the issue of not wanting to ruffle too many feathers in the péloton to prevent angering them to the point of riding against you, hence only those who are truly at the pinnacle are able to strut their peacock feathers like a Cipollini without paying for it in a loss of results (an example could be the responses from the péloton to Lizzie Deignan's eleventh-hour Olympic reprieve after a track record of blaming others at all times, which garnered an interesting response). A footballer doesn't need to be better than the entire division working together to deny them space on any given day, nor do 20 of the league's cornerbacks come together on a field at any one time to block a superstar quarterback's passing lanes. But a cyclist does have to run the risk of being chased down, wheel-sucked or boxed in by a number of adversaries simultaneously, sometimes simply for the single purpose of preventing their success.

You say, why can cycling not have so many characters as, say, football, but if you condense it down by numbers and look at the number of 'characters' as against the number of interchangeable central defenders, goons, guards and tight ends, I don't think you'd actually find the proportion is that much lower, it's just that sometimes some of the biggest characters don't get as much of a platform to shout about it or know better than to ruffle the wrong feathers.

 

[cantpedal]

Re: Re:

Nibali also has a personality, he's always good for some drama. Just recently he called out Froome for riding like a "sprinter".

It takes more personality \ character climbing on the Astana bus during the 2015 Tour de France as did Froome to talk face-to-face with Nibali.

Froome is a coward that complains when other riders attack him on the road. He has no personality and that's why the majority of people don't like him and why it's becoming harder and harder to find sponsors for WT teams in cycling. The sport has become a bore. When somebody dares to attack him he tries to ride them off the road.

LOL . no one that rides a bike down a mountain at the speeds they do or mixes it up in a bunch sprint is acting cowardly. cowardice is making such accusations against someone in a forum like this where the accused cannot defend themselves

 

[Echoes]

Even though it's true that in tennis playing time is very short compared to the overall time players stand on the court, leaving rooms for any kinds of tantrums, I still don't think that a player like John McEnroe was a show-off in his active years (sadly that's what he's become after his playing career). He threw some nasty tantrums at umpires because he played with his emotions and was extremely focused on the game, was such a perfectionist with his own game that he expect the same kind of perfection from umpires. The "show" that he made was game-related. Sagan on the contrary is making the show with wheelies and such to seek attention from the audience. When McEnroe won his matches, he was never exuberant or anything, to my knowledge. From archive matches that I've seen at least that was not the case. Jimmy Connors was very much seen as a showman. He was quite strong at making sure the attendance was on his side in order to give himself extra motivation, while also haveing bad temper but he could use his emotions in a positive way, which McEnroe was unable to do. This being said, comparing Connors to Sagan is again comparing an adult to a kid.

What gave these sport stars their own strong personalities in the eyes of the fans were their spectacular statements off courts like McEnroe saying "I have more talent in my pinky than Lendl in his whole body" or Lendl to Brad Gilbert "Even if I'm on my death bed you wouldn't be able to beat me". That was definitely "for the show", at a time television started making those guys "superstars" and they would seek to exploit this new media to achieve fame. After all it all happened in other sports too. Muhammad Ali was also famous for his provocative statements which were just for the show since he was rather nice in private. Even in our sport, at that time, Bernard Hinault or Roger De Vlaeminck were known for similar sounding statements.

But this was all about verbs, talk. Whatever you'd think of such behaviour it was talk and not acts, antics or moves. In my opinion there was something in those provocative statements of old that made these greats a lot superior to the silly antics or clothing of folks like Cipollini (who should even rather be dealt with on some other sections), Sagan or Pidcock (though I'd give the latter the benefit of youth, for the moment). Hinault would never celebrate his wins with a wheelie or anything out of this world. He did not need that. He had and still has a naturally strong personality, and can even also be nice. A strong personality is also based on frankness, that's what makes you popular, even if you are shy, you can be popular as long as you speak your mind without beating around the bush. You'd say that they don't all have great command of English? What does it matter? They may still talk in their native language and they will be translated.

In tennis, I do know that those who have lived the eighties would think Sampras was boring. Or else, indeed, those are more interested in a "theatrical show", than in a real game of tennis. Tennis made me dream thanks to Pete Sampras and I lost interest in tennis when Sampras retired or about when. His playing style did all the talking. He was intimidating, already during the warming-up and well his natural talent like the jumping overhead shots, the running forehand, etc impressed the real tennis fans like I was at that time, plus his fighing spirit and mental fortitude which he showed several times (like the QF against Corretja at US Open 1996 when he threw up on the court) because he suffered from thalassemia, won the respect of many (mine included). Besides he had knowledge about his sport, about traditions and everything. Something that can also be said about Gilbert, Cancellara, Hinault, Wiggins, Nys, etc in our sport.

All this to say that you really don't need to be a show-off, an attention-seeker to have a strong personality. Quite on the contrary! It's really something for the weaker personalities. Those with poor upbringing.

 

[Frankschleck]

pozatto <3

 

[d-s3]

Echoes, you apparently spend more time thinking about Sagan than his fans do
Bit of an obsession, perhaps?

 

[Echoes]

Yeah, he's haunting all my nights. It's not like I'm strictly talking about him that previous post of mine but first of all you don't even know me and second you just need to look at my recent posting history, there might just be three or four posts in 20 when I'm referring to that clown, already way too much for such a clown. Compare that to all the Froome haters or Armstrong haters feeding threads about those guys in the clinic and tell me who is obsessed. I would much rather talk about riders who deserve our respect. Only it's hard on this section.

 

[Emotional Cobble Guy]

I agree with alot that has been said on this thread already, it's an entertaining topic.
I actually think cycling is full of personalities and that the portrayal of these personalities has really become an inherent part of the cycling experience and cyclist-cultus. A part of "experiencing" cycling in my opinion functions often the same way as a movie with supeheroes does for kids (each hero to have it's own personality and specific powers). Even if you look at the amount of nicknames for cyclists of the past and present (cannibal, shark of messina, zwarte van brakel, spartacus, ...) it says alot. Therefore I feel like personality in cycling can't be mistaken with extrovertion, the personalities in our collective memory are beyond that. It's often the medias (commentators, interviewers, ex-cyclists, ...) that create these characters/heroes and narratives. I feel like they often confirm these created narratives/personalities untill the cyclists themselves add something to it or completely change it. Therefore I also feel that perceiving these personalities depend alot on where you come from. For instance in Flanders Lampaert and Naessen are currently portrayed by the medias as personalities within the peleton (for their straightforward, juicy and sometimes funny way of talking in combination with having a specific background-story) while I guess they're not known that way outside of Belgium (are they?).

Here is a very short list of personalities created within my context and in most recent history that immediately came to mind to (feel free to correct or to add, I've got to go back to work):
Lampaert = "The humble son of a farmer, juicy vocabulary, hardest worker"
Naessen = "The new kid who is under the wing of Van Avermaet, most straightforward and funny, freshness within Belgian cycling"
Boonen = Boonen is many things... the absolute but sometimes conflicted superhero in recent history (the one with most complexity as well)
Van Avermaet = "The most humble and somewhat mysterious/enchanting one who had the greatest but hidden powers, the one who strikes back after bad luck"
Hoste = "The one who could never escape bad luck but who was so combative"
...

Of course alot of other personalities are less bound to a specific -national- context (Voeckler, Sagan, ...)

 

[Echoes]

Interesting post. About Oliver Naesen, a lot has also been said about his previous full time job until 3 years ago. After his Belgian title Het Laatste Nieuws headlined: "From Courier to Belgian Champion" or something of the sort.

 

[RedheadDane]

He was a courier? Damn, people must have gotten their stuff quickly! (I'm obviously assuming he was using his bike)

Anyway, out-there "attention seeking" riders (like Sagan) are good, since they help remove the spotlight from those more reclusive riders who'd wish the media-people would just leave them the hell alone. Better someone who actually enjoys doing the interview does them, than someone who really just wanna get to the quiet of his bus.

 

[Frankschleck]

I would also say Chris Anker Sørensen was a very funny personality and loved in Denmark for his humor and other stuff.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

I will also always Remember Naesen calling Groenewegen a deb, furthermore him wearing off Bouhanni made me love him even more.

 

[Echoes]

Re:

He was a courier? Damn, people must have gotten their stuff quickly! (I'm obviously assuming he was using his bike)

Ah no no no. We are in the 21st century. He drove a delivery van, worked for a washing plant in Lokeren. About 80 customers a day, 300 to 400km and when he started focusing on cycling, he would train till 10pm with a light after work. He really had to fight to get where he is now. I guess that knowing that, some posters might get a bit more respect (I'm talking about those who ditched for his attitude after last year's Eurométropole Tour).

Better someone who actually enjoys doing the interview does them, than someone who really just wanna get to the quiet of his bus.

You can be quiet and still enjoy answering interviews. Tim Wellens animated a show on Belgian TV "Jonge Benen" (Young Legs) a few years ago along with his best mates: Sean De Bie, Louis Vervaeke and Jasper Stuyven. Some of these guys are better "showmen" than he is and yet he was the main animator of it and it was nice to see he had a lot of interesting things to say (about training in Tenerife, about altitud tents, etc.). Tim is shy but he doesn't mind interviews. Only when he does not wish to draw the attention on his own persona but on his sport. Recently he published a book along with his coach Paul Van den Bosch. Only one third was dedicated to his career thus far. The rest is just about training tips. That's so classy of him.