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Lance amps the big guns

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May 9, 2009
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Except that we've already cleared up the ownership issue for the time period they seem to be focussing on, and Lance wasn't an owner until later. That's why, if it's about something that Lance will go down for, it has to be about the doping. Otherwise, if it is indeed about the money, then lance isn't at much risk and he would be worth more as a witness against the suits than george or levi anyway.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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The Valley said:
This Mark Fabiani "communications strategist" character is a laiugh:

Quote: (Cyclingnews)
He then repeated a claim already made by Lance Armstrong, calling into question if it is right to spend taxpayers' money on the investigation: "With salmonella causing the recall of 380 million eggs, I'm probably not the only one wondering right now why the FDA is spending its resources looking into international bicycle races that occurred years ago," Fabiani said in an e-mail to Bloomberg.

I guess we'd all like to get rid of the rotten eggs, eh Mark?

Classic PR tactics - when guilty, try to deflect the issue onto something topical, yet completely different. As for the comment about looking into "international bicycle races that occurred years ago," the implication is clearly "hey, it happened a long time ago...so let's forget it."

And this guy is paid to come up with this transparent drivel?

Hey-they're arguing about a Muslim YMMA in New York while American troops are actually coming home from a war they were in a rush to start. Reason gets lost in arguments pretty easy these days and someone's paid to make the slogans as simple as possible.
 
velosopher54 said:
I am an American and I'm pretty embarrassed by what a, ahem, certain American has been posting in this thread.

Not all of us are that myopic, and well, stupid.

Embarassment over social criticism, is, at the very least, a demonstration of a localism that is itself a form of myopsy. At all events when one only has eyes for the convenient and reasuring side to the presentation. I do not and have thus never understood such embarassment.

Your embarassment is embarassing because childish. I mean, in which world do you live?


Back to cycling.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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The so called 'Master of Disaster' wouldn't last 5 minutes against Alastair Campbell - perhaps the subtlety or otherwise of the spin reflects the intellectual capacities of those it is intended to convince ;)
 
Mar 7, 2010
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rhubroma said:
Embarassment over social criticism, is, at the very least, a demonstration of a localism that is itself a form of myopsy. At all events when one only has eyes for the convenient and reasuring side to the presentation. I do not and have thus never understood such embarassment.

Your embarassment is embarassing because childish. I mean, in which world do you live?


Back to cycling.

Duh. His ignorance.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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bianchigirl said:
The so called 'Master of Disaster' wouldn't last 5 minutes against Alastair Campbell - perhaps the subtlety or otherwise of the spin reflects the intellectual capacities of those it is intended to convince ;)

Who are the "those" that need the convincing?
 
thehog said:
Levi, Hincapie, Armstrong and co. all think its about using dope but expect them all to be lead away in handcuffs by year out.

Classic wishful thinking. If LA has done everything certain members of this forum think he has, and even if it all gets proven, and even if he can't cut a deal, it will be years before anyone sees jail. Look at Bonds and Clemens, for heaven's sake, their cases are far further along.
 
Jul 29, 2010
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stephens said:
Except that we've already cleared up the ownership issue for the time period they seem to be focussing on, and Lance wasn't an owner until later. That's why, if it's about something that Lance will go down for, it has to be about the doping. Otherwise, if it is indeed about the money, then lance isn't at much risk and he would be worth more as a witness against the suits than george or levi anyway.


I don't think it's that cut-and-dry. LA may not have been an "equity partner" during that time period, but by all accounts, it was "his" team. It was a team which was built for him, and all the "strategic" decisions (doping matters, as well as who to hire, fire, demote, promote, etc.) flowed directly from him. I'm pretty sure if any of the "suits" as you describe are about to go down, they are going to tell the same tale. "Yes, we were the equity (silent) partners, but the day-to-day operations where all carried out as directed and dictated by PharmaBoy."...

As such, I really doubt if LA is going to be flipping as a witness against ANYBODY ;)
 
NashbarShorts said:
I don't think it's that cut-and-dry. LA may not have been an "equity partner" during that time period, but by all accounts, it was "his" team. It was a team which was built for him, and all the "strategic" decisions (doping matters, as well as who to hire, fire, demote, promote, etc.) flowed directly from him. I'm pretty sure if any of the "suits" as you describe are about to go down, they are going to tell the same tale. "Yes, we were the equity (silent) partners, but the day-to-day operations where all carried out as directed and dictated by PharmaBoy."...

As such, I really doubt if LA is going to be flipping as a witness against ANYBODY ;)

Interest dynamic! I like it! Charge Hincapie and Levi and have LA testify against them to save himself! He'd do it in a flash to save his own skin.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Jail? Who cares...

A lot of talk about jail time for the big guy, and way too much about the legal niceties of the case's argumentation...

I personally don't really care if the **** goes to jail or not. All I want is an entirely disgusting muckraking ****show of disclosure of his evil deeds. Both personal and professional.

I want this to be the catalyst that forces the UCI to get out of the doping control game - due to their obvious negligence, if not out right complicity. An entire upheaval of how doping is controlled in sport.

As to whether he goes to jail or not? I'd love to see it, but that's not what counts. Creating enough of a goatshow that 'the people' get even more outraged than after The Festina Affair, that's what counts.

The German public was getting close after Festina, and hopefully their Euro neighbours will join them after this round of disclosure. That's what counts - getting the public (mostly in Europe, sorry America) to say "end this now!".

I guess we'll see if anyone really cares about drug-free sport, that's what this is/should be about...
 
Mar 7, 2010
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JMBeaushrimp said:
A lot of talk about jail time for the big guy, and way too much about the legal niceties of the case's argumentation...

I personally don't really care if the **** goes to jail or not. All I want is an entirely disgusting muckraking ****show of disclosure of his evil deeds. Both personal and professional.

I want this to be the catalyst that forces the UCI to get out of the doping control game - due to their obvious negligence, if not out right complicity. An entire upheaval of how doping is controlled in sport.

As to whether he goes to jail or not? I'd love to see it, but that's not what counts. Creating enough of a goatshow that 'the people' get even more outraged than after The Festina Affair, that's what counts.

The German public was getting close after Festina, and hopefully their Euro neighbours will join them after this round of disclosure. That's what counts - getting the public (mostly in Europe, sorry America) to say "end this now!".

I guess we'll see if anyone really cares about drug-free sport, that's what this is/should be about...

+1. But maybe America will care when their golden boy goes up in flames. Just don't know if they will care more about doping or just the fact that most of them were duped.
 
On the comment from Lance's people that the FDA should be spending their resources on the egg/salmonella thing: heard a news story on radio his morning that now the FDA has recalled thousands of pounds of deli meat in the US. Story went on to say that the FDA did not have enough people to deal with this and other recalls because so much man power was tied up on egg/salmonella thing.

Salmonella could end up being Lance's biggest ally in this whole thing.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Bicicleta said:
On the comment from Lance's people that the FDA should be spending their resources on the egg/salmonella thing: heard a news story on radio his morning that now the FDA has recalled thousands of pounds of deli meat in the US. Story went on to say that the FDA did not have enough people to deal with this and other recalls because so much man power was tied up on egg/salmonella thing.

Salmonella could end up being Lance's biggest ally in this whole thing.

I doubt Novitsky has his sleeves rolled up and his hands in tainted meat...yet. This kind of comparison is equal to saying the Army/Navy football game can't occur because we have troops in Afghanistan.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Oldman said:
I doubt Novitsky has his sleeves rolled up and his hands in tainted meat...yet. This kind of comparison is equal to saying the Army/Navy football game can't occur because we have troops in Afghanistan.

Exactly. The FDA didn't hire away an IRS investigator to inspect chicken coops.

That's not saying the guy isn't willing to get his hands dirty. The Balco investigation started with him dumpster diving a mile from his house.
 
Bicicleta said:
On the comment from Lance's people that the FDA should be spending their resources on the egg/salmonella thing...

This is a classic false dilemma. Seen and noted many times by philosophers and scholars and lay alike in history, and yet it gets used over and over and people buy it over and over.

Oldman's football vs. Afghanistan analogy is a perfect explanation.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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theswordsman said:
Exactly. The FDA didn't hire away an IRS investigator to inspect chicken coops.

That's not saying the guy isn't willing to get his hands dirty. The Balco investigation started with him dumpster diving a mile from his house.

that's why the reference to tainted meat is still valid.
 

Polish

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Alpe d'Huez said:
Oldman's football vs. Afghanistan analogy is a perfect explanation.

Comparing Combat Troops in Afganistan to students at the Army/Naval Academy is far from a perfect analogy to the proper allocation af limited resources at the FDA.

Maybe comparing Combat Troops in Afganistan that are being used to erradicate poppy fields would be a better analogy. There IS a valid debate as to if those troops could be better deployed...
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Polish said:
Comparing Combat Troops in Afganistan to students at the Army/Naval Academy is far from a perfect analogy to the proper allocation af limited resources at the FDA.

I don't think the comparison was between combat soldiers and troops. Rather it pointed out that despite having finite resources and ongoing operations in Afghanistan, we're not going to see the annual Army/Navy game canceled.

It's a difference highlighted well and succinctly by the swordsman's point:

theswordsman said:
The FDA didn't hire away an IRS investigator to inspect chicken coops.

Novitsky was already an FDA expense prior to both the Armstrong investigation and the most recent chickens and salmonella issue. Like most agencies, the FDA has different skill sets to apply in different areas. Lance's latest PR hack trying to compare the two is complete bs - exactly what many of us have come to expect.
 
powerste said:
Novitsky was already an FDA expense prior to both the Armstrong investigation and the most recent chickens and salmonella issue. Like most agencies, the FDA has different skill sets to apply in different areas. Lance's latest PR hack trying to compare the two is complete bs - exactly what many of us have come to expect.

Precisely.

The resources utilized in the Armstrong investigation possess a different skill set from those who would be tasked with addressing the salmonella issue. As such, they would not be working on the salmonella issue in the first place, regardless of Armstrong.

The Army/Navy game analogy is a good one: regardless of how thin our combat troops my be spread, Cadets and Midshipmen would never be used to augement those forces in a combat situation, so they may as well play football.
 

Polish

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MacRoadie said:
The Army/Navy game analogy is a good one: regardless of how thin our combat troops my be spread, Cadets and Midshipmen would never be used to augement those forces in a combat situation, so they may as well play football.

And Novitzsky may just as well play "Armstrong Investigation" Witch Hunt?
Sports Doping is such a "fluffy" part of the FDA's mission in life.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Polish said:
And Novitzsky may just as well play "Armstrong Investigation" Witch Hunt?
Sports Doping is such a "fluffy" part of the FDA's mission in life.

I think everyone's missing the possible undercurrent of internet drug transactions and the FDA's pressure to have effective regulation. Sammy Sosa was reputed to have contacts in his native country that facilitated A-Rod's supply (could have my user wrong), Tiger was alledgedly involved with a supplier out of Canada, etc. Considering that internet terrorism is a serious consideration and huge amounts of drugs are vended via seemingly uncontrolled e-sales the FDA better start looking at cases. They can find the source of tainted eggs but a flood of counterfeit and poisoned prescription drugs may not be as easily traced. This case has to do with other things than our precious little fixation with an obscure sport. Calling it a Witch Hunt is funny...but not.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Polish said:
And Novitzsky may just as well play "Armstrong Investigation" Witch Hunt?
Sports Doping is such a "fluffy" part of the FDA's mission in life.

When I want to know what the FDA's mission in life is, I'lllook it up on their Web site. I'll be sure to let you know which aspects they themselves describe as "fluffy."