Lance Armstrong - An exercise in corruption.

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Aug 8, 2009
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Its not a flowchart. Its the kind of thing a set decorator would put in a movie about a conspiracy theorist with a bunch of string to show how obsesssed and insane they are. Also, where's Kevin Bacon?
 
May 27, 2012
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sashimono said:
Its not a flowchart. Its the kind of thing a set decorator would put in a movie about a conspiracy theorist with a bunch of string to show how obsesssed and insane they are. Also, where's Kevin Bacon?
It's the kind of thing that a lazy person wouldn't appreciate. Especially the kind of lazy person who believes in heroes, unicorns, and the miracle transforming powers of radiation and chemotherapy. There seem to be a lot of people like that around here recently.
 
Apr 13, 2010
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ChewbaccaD said:
It's the kind of thing that a lazy person wouldn't appreciate. Especially the kind of lazy person who believes in heroes, unicorns, and the miracle transforming powers of radiation and chemotherapy. There seem to be a lot of people like that around here recently.
Are you saying his bike was actually a unicorn all those years - now it all makes sense...
 
Apr 17, 2009
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sashimono said:
Its not a flowchart. Its the kind of thing a set decorator would put in a movie about a conspiracy theorist with a bunch of string to show how obsesssed and insane they are. Also, where's Kevin Bacon?
Can you refute any of the information? No? Thought not.

The flowchart is a purely factual.
 
Jun 14, 2012
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/31833754/Lance-Armstrong-Testimony


Page 25
25 Q. If you'll turn to page five of this

Page 26
1 transcript. Let me ask you this before I ask another
2 question about some actual comments. Did you know
3 that Mr. Stapleton and Mr. Knaggs were going to go
4 meet with Mr. Andreu to discuss the possibility of –
5 of obtaining an affidavit or a statement from
6 Ms. Andreu regarding Mr. Walsh's book?
7 A. No. Not that I remember.
8 Q. So you didn't authorize them to go do it, or
9 tell them to go do it. They just went and did it?
10 A. Not to my recollection.
11 Q. Did they report back to you that they had
12 met with Mr. Andreu at the 2004 Tour de France and had
13 talked to him about the book?
14 A. Not to my recollection.
15 Q. Okay. So you -- until it was revealed at
16 the deposition of Ms. Andreu, did you have any idea
17 that Mr. Stapleton and Mr. Knaggs had actually talked
18 to Mr. Andreu at the 2004 Tour de France regarding
19 Mr. Walsh's book and the possibility of getting a
20 statement from Betsy?
21 A. Oh, I think that would be unfair to say. I
22 mean, there's -- the Tour is wide open. There are
23 people everywhere. Frankie is somebody that was on

24 our team. I mean, people were talking about the book,
25 obviously, so -- it didn't come up like that, but –
Page 27
1 Q. Was Mr. Andreu on the team in '04?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Okay. So I think it was their testimony
4 that this conversation took place in 2004. It would
5 have to have been because they're talking about
6 Mr. Walsh's book which wasn't published till 2004.
7 Right?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. Okay. And I -- I don't think I fully
10 understood what you were telling me. Do you recall if
11 Mr. Stapleton or Mr. Knaggs told you that they had
12 this conversation with Mr. Andreu?
13 A. Not this -- I mean, not this specific
14 conversation. But they could have said that they saw
15 Frankie in the lodge or outside the bus. I don't
16 know.
17 Q. Okay. Have you had a chance to review
18 Mr. Stapleton's deposition?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Do you know why Mr. Stapleton, in his
21 deposition, testified that the only conversation he'd
22 had with Frankie Andreu at the 2004 Tour de France was
23 to say hello to him?
24 A. I have no idea.
 
Jun 14, 2012
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/31833754/Lance-Armstrong-Testimony

Page 30

2 Q. Now, prior to -- to Mr. Andreu's deposition,
3 you did -- you did call him, did you not?
4 A. I -- yes.
5 Q. Did you actually speak to him?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. What was your reason for calling him?
8 A. Well, I think I called because – because
9 we -- because Cathy LeMond had done her deposition,
10 and had all kinds of crazy things to say, which were
11 news to us.
12 Q. Any other reason you called him?
13 A. Other than to say hello, no.
14 Q. Were you trying to influence his testimony
15 in any way?
16 A. Of course not.
 
sniper said:
Looking at the chart makes me wonder even more why he decided to return to cycling in 2009.
Because for some there's never enough.

I recently heard a guy who had a nice house and early retirement say he had more wealth than Donald Trump, because he had more money than he ever thought he would, and Trump will never have enough to be satisfied. Same with Lance. He was just so far down a crooked path of hubris and control, he knew no other path to take upon his return than the one he did.

Nice chart BTW. Looks like something you'd see from Nike, or Enron for that matter.
 
Aug 8, 2009
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badboygolf16v said:
Can you refute any of the information? No? Thought not.

The flowchart is a purely factual.
You're asking the wrong question. I assume they guys information is correct. He got it from the web, after all.

Its a question of whether or not the connections are indicative of, or even relevant to corruption.

So Lance has some connection to a hospital where one of his friends happened to be born. Thats not evidence of corruption. Its not even interesting.

Same for the rest of the chart.

On the whole, I see a bunch of friends with shared interests who ended up with various business relationships. Its VERY common.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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sashimono said:
You're asking the wrong question. I assume they guys information is correct. He got it from the web, after all.

Its a question of whether or not the connections are indicative of, or even relevant to corruption.

So Lance has some connection to a hospital where one of his friends happened to be born. Thats not evidence of corruption. Its not even interesting.

Same for the rest of the chart.

On the whole, I see a bunch of friends with shared interests who ended up with various business relationships. Its VERY common.
How common is it for an Athlete to have that level of connections, both personal and commercial, with the entity that is in charge of regulating his sport?
http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-09-07/news/tour-de-farce/
 
May 14, 2010
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sashimono said:
You're asking the wrong question. I assume they guys information is correct. He got it from the web, after all.

Its a question of whether or not the connections are indicative of, or even relevant to corruption.

So Lance has some connection to a hospital where one of his friends happened to be born. Thats not evidence of corruption. Its not even interesting.

Same for the rest of the chart.

On the whole, I see a bunch of friends with shared interests who ended up with various business relationships. Its VERY common.
The chart, clearly, represents a phenomenal effort in tracking down and organizing the network formed by common interests between Lance/Tailwind and their associates. I don't see where it purports to uncover corruption.

The whole point, it seems to me, of creating such a diagram is so that you can see where the bodies could be buried, now that corruption is being uncovered. And who knows, this might even be of some help to investigators in supplementing the similar chart they've no doubt created. Great work!
 
Oct 16, 2010
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http://www.brandchannel.com/home/post/2012/06/25/FRS-Tebow-Armstrong-Rampone-Endorsements-062512.aspx

On FRS (of which LA is or at least was a board member):
The brand's three leading athlete endorsers are New York Jets Quarterback Tim Tebow, who is beginning to whip up Gotham-sized buzz in his new home; Christie Rampone, a player on the U.S. Olympic Women's Soccer team that is gearing up to compete in London; and Lance Armstrong, whose rep has been crashing down following a new U.S.-government investigation of doping allegations — charges the most legendary cyclist of all-time is vigorously denying.
Armstrong — an early user, investor and board member of FRS — is the more problematic athlete endorsement for FRS these days. Kohler said that the company had some new promotional plans for Armstrong — but that was just a day before the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency said that it is investigating long-festering accusations that the demigod of the Tour de France illegally used performance-enhancing drugs and blood transfusions to win.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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sashimono said:
Its not a flowchart. Its the kind of thing a set decorator would put in a movie about a conspiracy theorist with a bunch of string to show how obsesssed and insane they are. Also, where's Kevin Bacon?
That chart is the kind of analytical tool that investigators/prosecutors use to show the links between members of organized crime groups. Maybe they do get used on movie sets, I wouldn't know, but I do know that those charts have been displayed and discussed, and have been found to be credible tools, in courts of many jurisdictions.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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pedaling squares said:
That chart is the kind of analytical tool that investigators/prosecutors use to show the links between members of organized crime groups. Maybe they do get used on movie sets, I wouldn't know, but I do know that those charts have been displayed and discussed, and have been found to be credible tools, in courts of many jurisdictions.
let's hope the prosecutors leave out the born in _______hospital link. that one's pretty silly.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Ha. Yeah, I wasn't referring to the quality of the content, although I think there is some very good material in dim's chart, but more to the type of chart itself. It is definitely a useful tool, and like any tool is only as good as the user.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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patricknd said:
let's hope the prosecutors leave out the born in _______hospital link. that one's pretty silly.
I thought that was quite funny.

pedaling squares said:
Ha. Yeah, I wasn't referring to the quality of the content, although I think there is some very good material in dim's chart, but more to the type of chart itself. It is definitely a useful tool, and like any tool is only as good as the user.
Correct - the only difficulty with the chart is that it looks like a tangled web, that's not Dims fault but a reflection on the nature of the 'business dealings" that were being conducted.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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patricknd said:
let's hope the prosecutors leave out the born in _______hospital link. that one's pretty silly.
Dim has a good sense of humor. He has said that it was a joke and was happy that most people got it as a joke
 
May 26, 2010
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sashimono said:
On the whole, I see a bunch of friends with shared interests who ended up with various business relationships. Its VERY common.
If it is 'very common' then it shouldn't take you long to replicate one.

looking forward to your chart already.

How about David Beckham? Would a guy known a 'Golden Balls' because he makes so much money have those kind of connections? Show us!
 
Jun 18, 2009
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LaFlorecita said:
Dim's chart
Thanks for this! I was looking for Liggett and Sherwen in the last version....

You have to admit, getting the sport's most active (English) commentators onto your payroll is a great way to get public perception on your side!
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Cobber said:
Thanks for this! I was looking for Liggett and Sherwen in the last version....

You have to admit, getting the sport's most active (English) commentators onto your payroll is a great way to get public perception on your side!
The commentary during today's prologue was beyond comical. The comparison by Sherwen of Evan's cadence to Lance was unreal, though. These guys don't miss an opportunity to lap at the scrap bowl...
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Oldman said:
The commentary during today's prologue was beyond comical. The comparison by Sherwen of Evan's cadence to Lance was unreal, though. These guys don't miss an opportunity to lap at the scrap bowl...
ha ha... I can't watch them. I lasted 15 mins on SBS's telecast before I had to switch over to an internet stream. I might watch them the day after Lance goes down, if and when he does, just to see them struggle to find something to talk about.
 
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