Lance Armstrong popularity check

[blackcat]

I can't see into the future, maybe you can.

I cant see into the future neither. But I dont have the confidence Armstrong can be anyone else that Armstrong iteration 1994-2012. The triathlon finish and his rebuffing his young daughter with the flowers tells me all.

(not trying to be a smart alec Hrotha, sry if coming across that way )

 

[Bosco10]

I dont want an insincere apology on Oprah.

We know Armstrong. That is not what he does.

This would be just more gauze to fold over the eyes of the rubes who bought all those wristbands. If you apply some rigour and assess it, what good comes out of him appealing to sympathy, and doing a Martha Stewart and prostrating himself before Oprah and soccer moms. Prostate himself might be more appropriate.

Oprah retired last year, but she could do a special show for Lance. BTW, Marion Jones went on Oprah after being released from prison. Marion claims she found her 'inner self' while in solitary confinement, yet she still clings to her silly BS about thinking a steroid was flaxseed oil <cough><cough>

Here she is trying to float that stinky story to Oprah.. sadly interesting:
http://youtu.be/3ewja4q0z7s

 

[blackcat]

He's going down faster than a hooker on a submarine during shore leave.

I am a big fan of the tortured anaologies and metaphors. So thumbs up from me.

But if we wish to correct it, we can just add an "r" consonant. And delete a vowel, an "a".
going down faster than a hooker on submariners during shore leave.

 

[datalore]

I feel a bit sorry for him

I only feel sorry for him in the sense that if it hadn't been him, it probably would have been someone else (maybe Jan) in the same position. Nevertheless, he perpetrated a huge lie and profited like crazy from it, so he deserves whatever is coming to him at this point.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Here we have yet another example of yet another utterly pointless LA topic, which mods for unknown reasons decide to let stand, instead of merging it into any one of the dozens of suitable existing LA topics.

The LA obsession of many here truly knows no bounds. Maybe the OP just likes to see his name up there?

 

[MarkvW]

No sympathy. He's alive and Pantani is dead. Nothing will bring back Pantani, Jimenez or any of the others who lost far more than their dignity and money as a result of the doping environment Armstrong created and maintained.

Armstrong caused Pantani's death? Now that's a new one!

 

[DirtyWorks]

I only feel sorry for him in the sense that if it hadn't been him, it probably would have been someone else (maybe Jan) in the same position. Nevertheless, he perpetrated a huge lie and profited like crazy from it, so he deserves whatever is coming to him at this point.

You don't know what Thom Wiesel's been doing with most of the money coming through USA Cycling for the last 10+ years. The guy has been funding developing dopers with a sufficiently dramatic personal story to build another profitable celebrity just like he did with Armstrong. Lately he's gotten close, but the athlete never signs the deal. Mini Phinney was a perfect example.

Don't feel sorry for Wonderboy. Even if he ends up living in a double-wide in Plano, he will have no regrets. None.

 

[thirteen]

excellent background article on it all: The Trifecta That Shaped U.S. Cycling in the Armstrong Era

and the link to Dim's incredible flowchart that really says it all!

 

[silverrocket]

I only feel sorry for him in the sense that if it hadn't been him, it probably would have been someone else (maybe Jan) in the same position. Nevertheless, he perpetrated a huge lie and profited like crazy from it, so he deserves whatever is coming to him at this point.

I don't think there was/is any other cyclist that could have possibly been in the same position as Lance. There is practically no comparison between Jan Ullrich and Lance Armstrong beyond them each being cheating cyclists, but Armstrong is going down for far, far more than that.

I don't feel sorry for him because he hasn't paid anywhere near an appropriate price for what he did. Reduced popularity and income, yeah, but the public still considers him a 7-time TdF winner that merely "doped like everybody else".

 

[purcell]

Not even remotely.

He is the perfect example of "reap what you sow", he has spent his life bullying, slandering, suing and generally riding roughshod over anyone who dared question the myth.

This is the guy who referred to one woman as an "alcoholic prositute" for daring to question. He called another a "fat, bitter loser who hates me". For daring to question.

Hard not to hate the guy that does that.

No pity. No sympathy at all. None.

 

[thirteen]

i still want to know if that's a girdle.

 

[Velodude]

is he wearing a girdle in that pic?

No. Armstrong has recently abandoned atheisim. He considers he has no longer deity status.

He has embraced the Church of the Latter Day Saints (Mormons).

Through Mitt Romney being under the microscopeit was generally learned that Mormons wear bloomers type underwear. I suspect Armstrongs "Mormon" underwear is being exposed (or it is his cycling bib rolled down).

 

[thirteen]

No. Armstrong has recently abandoned atheisim. He considers he has no longer deity status.

He has embraced the Church of the Latter Day Saints (Mormons).

Through Mitt Romney being under the microscopeit was generally learned that Mormons wear bloomers type underwear. I suspect Armstrongs "Mormon" underwear is being exposed (or it is his cycling bib rolled down).

thank you... i guess, being a girl, i never considered hanging upside down with by bib rolled off

 

[mountainrman]

No sympathy. He's alive and Pantani is dead. Nothing will bring back Pantani, Jimenez or any of the others who lost far more than their dignity and money as a result of the doping environment Armstrong created and maintained.

The aspect for which I have no sympathy for is how he turned the legal dogs onto his accusers Emma and Betsy.

As the regards the rest he was just one more victim of a world in which you cheated ( most of them ) or were cheated on - by far the minority.

Tte post above is wrong. He did not create the doping environment, indeed was only peripheral throughout the first few years of his career - he returned from Cancer when it was in full swing.

Even riders on his team like Hincapie did not dope because of him, and did not stop when he left. So as a main conspirator , Hincapie and Leipheimer are just as guilty, and should be sanctioned heavily, Nor did either own up until the feds gave them immunity which eliminated their right to silence. As jaksche said all of the six teams he joined had organised doping at some level. Pantani and team, and tmobile were just as bad. hincapie has 8 year less ban than hamilton because he was better at cheating. That should not be.

So armstrong has been scapegoated. The fact that doper riis still has a Tdf title, and that hincapie got off free, shows how random cycling justice is. Armstrong has been over sanctioned, and for that I feel sorry for him - but then cycling soecialises in injustice so I feel more sorry for Rasmussen whose case for victimisation is clearly better founded. I feel even more sorry for Kristin - put in an impossible position. in short they were all victims to some degree except Hein and Pat who should not have jobs after this, but they have.

The only reason others owned up is immunity, since it was not offered to him, you cannot blame him for staying quiet - it is not a level playing field

So I do not think his treatment was equitable.

 

[andy1234]

thank you... i guess, being a girl, i never considered hanging upside down with by bib rolled off

Don't be too hasty now!
Never say never and all that...

 

[DirtyWorks]

Tte post above is wrong. He did not create the doping environment, indeed was only peripheral throughout the first few years of his career - he returned from Cancer when it was in full swing.

Haha. Unbelievable. You are wrong. Read the story below carefully, then know that the coaches running the amateur-hour program were Chris Carmichael (yes that one) and Rene Wenzel. Also know that Wonderboy was on the same team at the same time.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500164_162-284958.html

I agree it wasn't equitable treatment too. Wonderboy should be in jail on multiple felonies. He got off easy.

What is the deal with your thinking? Wonderboy finally gets his FIRST day of reckoning and now he's been dealt with too harshly.

 

[mountainrman]

Haha. Unbelievable. You are wrong. Read the story below carefully, then know that the coaches running the amateur-hour program were Chris Carmichael (yes that one) and Rene Wenzel. Also know that Wonderboy was on the same team at the same time.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500164_162-284958.html

I agree it wasn't equitable treatment too. Wonderboy should be in jail on multiple felonies. He got off easy.

What is the deal with your thinking? Wonderboy finally gets his FIRST day of reckoning and now he's been dealt with too harshly.

I repeat - Armstrong did not create doping in the europen peloton nor did it halt when he left. Almost all of the teams of the time had ornanised doping, so no difference there.

The only factor that singled him out is (a) turning legal dogs onto others and intimidation - I have already said here and elsewhere desreves massive sanction and ( b) winning. Otherwise such as Hincapie , every DS and most other riders deserve the same sanction.

So yes - In relative terms he has been made a scapegoat.
Hincapie also career doped and was a main player in the same conspiracy, so the punishments should be similar - with an extra ban for Armstrong for intimidation. it would have been more credible if Hincapie got 2 years and a big fine.

 

[veganrob]

Haha. Unbelievable. You are wrong. Read the story below carefully, then know that the coaches running the amateur-hour program were Chris Carmichael (yes that one) and Rene Wenzel. Also know that Wonderboy was on the same team at the same time.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500164_162-284958.html

I agree it wasn't equitable treatment too. Wonderboy should be in jail on multiple felonies. He got off easy.

What is the deal with your thinking? Wonderboy finally gets his FIRST day of reckoning and now he's been dealt with too harshly.

DW. Is Rene Wenzel related to Wenzel Coaching? Thanks

 

[DirtyWorks]

DW. Is Rene Wenzel related to Wenzel Coaching? Thanks

I'm not sure at all. The last I heard, his ex-wife got the name of the business and she kept it going. I could be wrong about that.

Rene got the worst of it with Carmichael apparently settling out of court, AKA bribing, the wronged cyclists so his name did not appear associated with the civil case. That's not a defense of Rene. It's just how it happened.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Armstrong caused Pantani's death? Now that's a new one!

In part yes. Doping destroyed the lives of a lot of cyclists in the 1990s and 2000s.

1999 was supposed to be the tour of redemption - there was perhaps a glimmer of a chance that the sport might clean up. Armstrong saw to it that that wouldn't happen and opened up a whole new doping arms race.

Doping destroyed Pantani, Jimenez etc, and Armstrong without a doubt contributed to the doping culture of the 1990s being maintained, certainly was instrumental in ramping up doping regimes. The UCI, the doctors and DSs are all also responsible.

Maybe Pantani and Jimenez never stood a chance and would have died young anyway, but while Armstrong get the chance to grow old, Pantani, Jimenez and the others won't get that chance.

So no sympathy for anything bad that happens to him.

 

[pedaling squares]

I feel as badly for Lance Armstrong as he felt for the Andreus, O'Reilly, Anderson, Landis, Hamilton, etc when they were knocked down a few pegs. In other words, I don't give a shit about Lance Armstrong right about now.

thank you... i guess, being a girl, i never considered hanging upside down with by bib rolled off

Come on treize, give it a shot. Post photos.

 

[thirteen]

Come on treize, give it a shot. Post photos.

you couldn't handle it!

 

[mewmewmew13]

Not even remotely.

He is the perfect example of "reap what you sow", he has spent his life bullying, slandering, suing and generally riding roughshod over anyone who dared question the myth.

This is the guy who referred to one woman as an "alcoholic prositute" for daring to question. He called another a "fat, bitter loser who hates me". For daring to question.

Hard not to hate the guy that does that.

No pity. No sympathy at all. None.

100% well stated!

 

[MarkvW]

In part yes. Doping destroyed the lives of a lot of cyclists in the 1990s and 2000s.

1999 was supposed to be the tour of redemption - there was perhaps a glimmer of a chance that the sport might clean up. Armstrong saw to it that that wouldn't happen and opened up a whole new doping arms race.

Doping destroyed Pantani, Jimenez etc, and Armstrong without a doubt contributed to the doping culture of the 1990s being maintained, certainly was instrumental in ramping up doping regimes. The UCI, the doctors and DSs are all also responsible.

Maybe Pantani and Jimenez never stood a chance and would have died young anyway, but while Armstrong get the chance to grow old, Pantani, Jimenez and the others won't get that chance.

So no sympathy for anything bad that happens to him.

I don't buy the "doping culture of the 1990s" argument. One thing that has remained constant through all of pro cycling's postwar culure is doping. Only the names of the drugs and the names of the riders have changed.

When Merckx-the sport's biggest hero-was a doper, and a shrine exists on Mt. Ventoux honoring the death of doper Tom Simpson, and an EPO manufacturer sponsors a major bike race (the ToC), it looks undeniable to me that doping has been interwoven with pro cycling for a very long time. Obree's recent article about his extremely brief pro experience was also devastating.

Armstrong brought superior technology (Ferrari), superior organization, and (most importantly) reckless boldness into his team-doping conspiracy. I don't mean to infer Armstrong or Bruyneel were anything like masterminds--they were just smarter than the other dopers (and that's not saying much). And I don't buy at all the idea that Armstrong was the only intimidator in the peloton, either. And I don't think Armstrong was the only guy to "donate" to the UCI, either.

Armstrong is simply the most revolting character in an ongoing parade of revolting characters. The only way on Earth that a creature like Pantani looks good is when he is compared to an even viler creature like Armstrong.

 

[silverrocket]

I don't buy the "doping culture of the 1990s" argument. One thing that has remained constant through all of pro cycling's postwar culure is doping. Only the names of the drugs and the names of the riders have changed.

When Merckx-the sport's biggest hero-was a doper, and a shrine exists on Mt. Ventoux honoring the death of doper Tom Simpson, and an EPO manufacturer sponsors a major bike race (the ToC), it looks undeniable to me that doping has been interwoven with pro cycling for a very long time. Obree's recent article about his extremely brief pro experience was also devastating.

Armstrong brought superior technology (Ferrari), superior organization, and (most importantly) reckless boldness into his team-doping conspiracy. I don't mean to infer Armstrong or Bruyneel were anything like masterminds--they were just smarter than the other dopers (and that's not saying much). And I don't buy at all the idea that Armstrong was the only intimidator in the peloton, either. And I don't think Armstrong was the only guy to "donate" to the UCI, either.

Armstrong is simply the most revolting character in an ongoing parade of revolting characters. The only way on Earth that a creature like Pantani looks good is when he is compared to an even viler creature like Armstrong.

I think the consensus on this forum is that being a doping cyclist does not necessarily make one a "revolting character". In 1998 there really was little choice, and Pantani made the one every other successful cyclist made. In 1999 there was a chance for cycling to turn the page, but Armstrong did more than his share in ensuring that didn't happen. He hardly is responsible for Pantani's death (Pantani is responsible enough for that), but in my opinion if Armstrong had not come back in 1999 Pantani would still be alive today. As mentioned elsewhere on this forum, "The Death of Marco Pantani" is the definitive English-language read for anyone trying to understand MP. A flawed character, but if he is so "revolting", why is/was there so much sympathy for him, but not much for Armstrong?