Lance Armstrong's blood values from the Tour de France looks suspicious and indicate

[Cobber]

OK, just entered all of LA's blood values from the past year into a spreadsheet and graphed it. Shaded in blue is the normal range (85-95) for OFF-score. Anyone want to bet that LA got transfused immediately before the TdF? Based on how quickly it dropped after 6/16/09, if he was tested a week earlier he may have been above the 133 cutoff. Seems ironic to me that these values were posted by LA as evidence that he doesn't dope...

 

[Escarabajo]

Question about the data:

I see that there is a spike for the Ventoux with 43% on July 25th. Now the previous sample was measured at 41.7% on the 20th of July. This was the rest day. We don't have more data for the in-between days. And judging by his miraculous recuperation in the third week, is it possible to conclude that the blood transfusion took place sometime in between? Or hours later after the test? Is that is so, would the Hematocrit level be above the 43% that was reported on the 25th for those in between days? I guess that is that is true, the numbers would be a lot more telling than what it is.

I know people in this forum have indicated that the blood transfusion will take effect in at least 48 hours (Based on Kohl’s confession also). So for the following day after the Verbier test, we can assume that he knew that the stage was not that hard and could stay with the leaders before the effects of the blood transfusion took place. Is this possible or Am I off by all accounts?

Some help will be appreciated

 

[Escarabajo]

OK, just entered all of LA's blood values from the past year into a spreadsheet and graphed it. Shaded in blue is the normal range (85-95) for OFF-score. Anyone want to bet that LA got transfused immediately before the TdF? Based on how quickly it dropped after 6/16/09, if he was tested a week earlier he may have been above the 133 cutoff. Seems ironic to me that these values were posted by LA as evidence that he doesn't dope...

Excellent. Thanks.

 

[Race Radio]

OK, just entered all of LA's blood values from the past year into a spreadsheet and graphed it. Shaded in blue is the normal range (85-95) for OFF-score. Anyone want to bet that LA got transfused immediately before the TdF? Based on how quickly it dropped after 6/16/09, if he was tested a week earlier he may have been above the 133 cutoff. Seems ironic to me that these values were posted by LA as evidence that he doesn't dope...

Good work Cobber, however you may want to use his first round of numbers. He changed many of them in subsequent releases (Highlighted)

 

[Escarabajo]

OK, just entered all of LA's blood values from the past year into a spreadsheet and graphed it. Shaded in blue is the normal range (85-95) for OFF-score. Anyone want to bet that LA got transfused immediately before the TdF? Based on how quickly it dropped after 6/16/09, if he was tested a week earlier he may have been above the 133 cutoff. Seems ironic to me that these values were posted by LA as evidence that he doesn't dope...

So based on this, what do you think about Lance Armstrong in the Giro, did he ride somewhat clean? (Not taking into account recuperation meds)

 

[Cobber]

So based on this, what do you think about Lance Armstrong in the Giro, did he ride somewhat clean? (Not taking into account recuperation meds)

My guess would be that he was mostly clean, and his performance definitely showed that. The dip in all values just before the big spike corresponds to the Giro, which is what is supposed to happen.

 

[Cobblestones]

OK, just entered all of LA's blood values from the past year into a spreadsheet and graphed it. Shaded in blue is the normal range (85-95) for OFF-score. Anyone want to bet that LA got transfused immediately before the TdF? Based on how quickly it dropped after 6/16/09, if he was tested a week earlier he may have been above the 133 cutoff. Seems ironic to me that these values were posted by LA as evidence that he doesn't dope...

Great graph. Says more than a thousand words.

You see the drop during the Giro. You would expect a similar drop for the TdF. But what you get is something completely different...

Some of you ask: why would LA post these values at all if they're so incriminating. I think the answer is that LA couldn't care less about it as long as it's below the official limits. It's the old Vreiman excuse: 'not sanctionable'.

I do remember that in the other thread (where we discussed the mysteriously changing values) I came out and said: look at the December 08, it looks like he got blood drawn and then likely microdosed. You can see that in the curve here. It looks a little like the Giro drop.

Also, have a look at Wiggins's charts for the TdF and the Giro. Similar pattern there.

 

[Escarabajo]

My guess would be that he was mostly clean, and his performance definitely showed that. The dip in all values just before the big spike corresponds to the Giro, which is what is supposed to happen.

Thanks.
.........................

 

[Cobber]

Good work Cobber, however you may want to use his first round of numbers. He changed many of them in subsequent releases (Highlighted)

OK.. double checked all the values I used, and the only difference is that I was missing the 4/2/09 values. Everything else is exactly the same.

Some of you ask: why would LA post these values at all if they're so incriminating. I think the answer is that LA couldn't care less about it as long as it's below the official limits. It's the old Vreiman excuse: 'not sanctionable'.

+1.... which gets us back to the limits are too high. Ridiculously so, it seems...

Thanks.
.........................

I have to add though, I am by no means an expert on any of this stuff. It would be nice to get some feedback from those in the know.

 

[red_flanders]

His body would have been under a lot more stress during the Giro due to coming back from the collarbone injury, so it makes sense it would take more out of him.

Absolutely preposterous. Back it up with any shred of scientific evidence.

Specifically, how does bone healing affect HCT? Or unless "more" is referring to something else ("it would take more [what exactly?] out of him").

 

[Anonymous]

Great graph. Says more than a thousand words.

You see the drop during the Giro. You would expect a similar drop for the TdF. But what you get is something completely different...

Some of you ask: why would LA post these values at all if they're so incriminating. I think the answer is that LA couldn't care less about it as long as it's below the official limits. It's the old Vreiman excuse: 'not sanctionable'. I do remember that in the other thread (where we discussed the mysteriously changing values) I came out and said: look at the December 08, it looks like he got blood drawn and then likely microdosed. You can see that in the curve here. It looks a little like the Giro drop.

Also, have a look at Wiggins's charts for the TdF and the Giro. Similar pattern there.

Complete and total arrogance on LA's part. Easily enough to understand given the "relationship" LA has with the UCI.

 

[Race Radio]

Someone raises a question about slightly off average numbers

They are more then "Slightly off average". They are 10% higher then Armstrong off season baseline, during a period of the Tour when studies who a 12% drop is more likely.

 

[blackcat]

So based on this, what do you think about Lance Armstrong in the Giro, did he ride somewhat clean? (Not taking into account recuperation meds)

Armstrong was as clean as he was somewhat pregnant.

He just never targeted ambitious blood parameters for performance.

 

[Anonymous]

Why do you want to start off on the wrong foot with me? If you disagree then just say so. You don't have to pretend I'm crazy.

It seems to me quite logical that getting back up to fitness after injury puts far more stain on the body during a grand tour. This was the case for the Giro but not for the Tour, obviously.

Just because I'm paranoid does not mean they aren't after me...

 

[Race Radio]

You don't have to pretend I'm crazy.
.

Agreed, no need to pretend....you prove it with your posts.

What are you still doing here Arbiter? You have been exposed as a lying troll. Time to change your user name again.

 

[Anonymous]

Why do you want to start off on the wrong foot with me? If you disagree then just say so. You don't have to pretend I'm crazy.

It seems to me quite logical that getting back up to fitness after injury puts far more stain on the body during a grand tour. This was the case for the Giro but not for the Tour, obviously.

Ok, you need to back it down a bit because that is just TOO stupid. You sometimes walk that fine line in trollkraft where your post is brilliantly uninformed. The problem is that when it comes to science, you can't pull the same thing off. The axiom "Never go full ***" is appropriate here.

Just some helpful trollkraft hints.

 

[Race Radio]

It's all relative, Race.

So true, when talking about Armstrong it is important to suspend rational thought and believe in miracles.

 

[red_flanders]

Why do you want to start off on the wrong foot with me? If you disagree then just say so. You don't have to pretend I'm crazy.

I don't believe anyone could genuinely be as obtuse as you pretend to be in your posts. I think you're either trolling or getting paid to spout this rubbish.

Why don't you just answer the question? Back up your statements. Then, I would have nothing to say, but your response is the exact reason I reply to you the way I do. You have nothing legitimate to offer. Your goal seems to be obfuscation.

 

[Anonymous]

I pop up and the trolls immediately come out.

I will try to ignore them as much as possible for the sake of other posters who complain that it spoils the threads.

Hey, I thought we were friends!

Look man, I am just trying to help you be as successful as possible in your trollkraft. In all honesty, I am like Yoda when it comes to trollkraft. You really need to heed my advice young Skywalker.

 

[Anonymous]

I pop up and the trolls immediately come out.

I will try to ignore them as much as possible for the sake of other posters who complain that it spoils the threads.

You planning pulling another all nighter? I think you must be getting tired as you aren't as sharp as normal.

Get some sleep little buddy, we will be here tomorrow.

 

[skippy254]

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Did I mention that this was a lame post?

 

[Anonymous]

You'll find that on a subject like this we're all speculating to some degree. Everybody is doing that - there is no need to get angry about it. It's your belief that rushing to get up to fitness puts no extra strain on the body and effect RBC and all that. I disagree. I think especially for elite cyclists, fitness levels are incredibly important for grand tours.

As opposed to the non-elite level, non-fit Grand Tour cyclist?

You are definately off your game.

 

[Anonymous]

You'll find that on a subject like this we're all speculating to some degree. Everybody is doing that - there is no need to get angry about it. It's your belief that rushing to get up to fitness puts no extra strain on the body and effect RBC and all that. I disagree. I think especially for elite cyclists, fitness levels are incredibly important for grand tours.

Look dude, I don't know how much more clearly I can say it, stay away from science. You gotta back off "full ***" here man or people will start to believe you are genuinely stupid.

 

[Hugh Januss]

You don't have to pretend I'm crazy.

That's true. We don't have to pretend.

 

[Race Radio]

Everyone knows you never go full ***

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/bc...lm-clip-nobody-goes-full-***-from-ilike2party