Landis Attacks Vaughters

[magoo34]

these guys all know what's going on in each others camps/teams

remember the text messaging between JV and Frankie Andreu about Uniballer/Hog emptying Landis's blood down the sink during the 95 TdF cause he signed with Phonak....[/QUO

The year was 2004 my friend

 

[NashbarShorts]

Seems the page is no longer up on Versus' website. Maybe the long arm of Lord Armstrong had it taken down. Can someone pls paraphrase what was said by Floyd? I've read through page 1-6 of this thread looking for it, can't bear to read through remaining 12pages...

Anyone, please?..

 

[Topangarider]

text between JV and Frankie Andreu

these guys all know what's going on in each others camps/teams

remember the text messaging between JV and Frankie Andreu about Uniballer/Hog emptying Landis's blood down the sink during the 95 TdF cause he signed with Phonak....[/QUO

The year was 2004 my friend

Thanks for reminding us of this priceless exchange. Can't wait to see what texts and e-mails the feds have captured.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis/instantmessage.html

 

[pedaling squares]

I did, at first, believe in Slipstream. Once I saw Wigans up with the top climbers, I knew something was up. It was the Hincapie transformation all over again. USPS 2.0 indeed.
I don't buy what Vaughters is selling at all.

I liked that team but I can't help but raise my eyebrows when they had the runaway surprise performer of the Tour de France in the last three editions (VDV, Wigans, Hesj). It's proof of nothing, but when Landis speaks of USPS v.2 you have to pay attention.

What a mess. You can air your suspicions and ask people to explain things that don't seem right, and I encourage that. But this all sounds like these guys could have had this discussion via e-mail and not in the open and the world may have been a better place.

I'm afraid that just doesn't happen any longer in the world of social media. Why tell a man directly that you disagree with him when you can mock him in front of the whole world? Now we can be ten years old all our lives. Hey that reminds me of some of my posts...

The deliberate misspelling is the WonderLance style, make it look as though you're completely clueless as a way of making your comments all the more stinging.

Ah so, Landis is WonderLance. That makes sense. I had always thought he was the alter-ego of a forum regular but the mods put that one to rest a while back.

 

[Sanitiser]

Thanks for reminding us of this priceless exchange. Can't wait to see what texts and e-mails the feds have captured.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis/instantmessage.html

Wow.

 

[Granville57]

Seems the page is no longer up on Versus' website. Maybe the long arm of Lord Armstrong had it taken down. Can someone pls paraphrase what was said by Floyd? I've read through page 1-6 of this thread looking for it, can't bear to read through remaining 12pages...

Anyone, please?..

It was just back one page, #17

Tada!!!
The original article on Versus by Neil Browne.
Strangely titled: The Inside Story of of Matt White's Firing

Floyd Landis has struck out once again at the cycling establishment...

 

[Benotti69]

Thanks for reminding us of this priceless exchange. Can't wait to see what texts and e-mails the feds have captured.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis/instantmessage.html

Cheers, sorry i got the year wrong, late last night for me..oops, but how could i forget what they did. like something out of a mafia movie

 

[Benotti69]

Because thats what an intellgent enlightened society does.
If I can freely accuse you of being a rapist just because you live next door to one would you be OK with that?
I will believe everything Landis can PROVE, nothing else.

accuse me of being a rapist when i hang around with 200 others guys who are all suspected of being rapists as their ilk were ever thus

when landis fires a shot into the peloton he is gonna hit a doper, when he fires at a top 10 finisher its gonna be a kill. fire up the BBQ

 

[andy1234]

accuse me of being a rapist when i hang around with 200 others guys who are all suspected of being rapists as their ilk were ever thus

when landis fires a shot into the peloton he is gonna hit a doper, when he fires at a top 10 finisher its gonna be a kill. fire up the BBQ

OK im going to light this firework. I don't believe what I'm saying mind, but I want to follow your logic.

Pro riders have always doped, they always will, its only the drugs that have changed. Anyone who produces a credible performance is doped, "as their Ilk were ever thus"
Everyone is fair game, ACTUAL proof or not.

There can be no other conclusion, Lemond must have doped.

 

[Ferminal]

There can be no other conclusion, Lemond must have doped.

There is loads of discussion about LeMond's place at the beginning of the O2 Vector drugs era and what effect it had on his performances. Feel free to have a search and bump one of the threads.

 

[Benotti69]

OK im going to light this firework. I don't believe what I'm saying mind, but I want to follow your logic.

Pro riders have always doped, they always will, its only the drugs that have changed. Anyone who produces a credible performance is doped, "as their Ilk were ever thus"
Everyone is fair game, ACTUAL proof or not.

There can be no other conclusion, Lemond must have doped.

so you have unmasked yourself.

You cant believe LA is a proven doper according to the evidence, yet unproven in a court but thoroughly being investigated by the Feds and now you believe LeMond doped.

Landis fired a shot at Wiggin's based on what? the same blood values at a TdF, and Landis has admitted to using epo during his winning TdF.

Now it doesn't take a genuis to work out that Landis won it with the same blood values as Wiggins got a fourth. Wiggins got a fourth behind 2 known and 1 highly suspected doper.

Next analogy please.

 

[Mambo95]

Landis fired a shot at Wiggin's based on what? the same blood values at a TdF, and Landis has admitted to using epo during his winning TdF.

Now it doesn't take a genuis to work out that Landis won it with the same blood values as Wiggins got a fourth. Wiggins got a fourth behind 2 known and 1 highly suspected doper.

Wiggins didn't have the same values. He had, from the very limited data provided by Wiggins, what appeared to Landis's completely unqualified mind to be similar values to his.

Does Landis have any idea what clean values should be? Does anyone who posts on here?

 

[Barrus]

To discuss Lemonds doping look into one of the many threads that deal with this. This is not the thread to discuss this in

 

[andy1234]

so you have unmasked yourself.

You cant believe LA is a proven doper according to the evidence, yet unproven in a court but thoroughly being investigated by the Feds and now you believe LeMond doped.

Landis fired a shot at Wiggin's based on what? the same blood values at a TdF, and Landis has admitted to using epo during his winning TdF.

Now it doesn't take a genuis to work out that Landis won it with the same blood values as Wiggins got a fourth. Wiggins got a fourth behind 2 known and 1 highly suspected doper.

Next analogy please.

Stop using facts, I thought they weren't necessary.
Unmasked myself? Please, are you that dumb you cant see this has nothing to do with Armstrong, or is that not possible in your world?
Now talk me through those blood values in detail....

 

[andy1234]

To discuss Lemonds doping look into one of the many threads that deal with this. This is not the thread to discuss this in

Its not a discussion about Lemond, Its a discussion about how hypocritical it is to accuse someone of doping just because they compete in a sport complicit with doping.

Many Forumites maintain that they post here because they love the sport and want to demonstrate a desire to clean it up.

When I ask for proof of someone doping, either step up, or move on. If someone protests someones guilt purely because "everyone is doing it" then they have to expect for EVERYONE to be accused, not just the rider of their choice.

The "all guilty" attitude shows no love for the sport in my eyes, but hey, what do I know?

 

[sniper]

Its not a discussion about Lemond, Its a discussion about how hypocritical it is to accuse someone of doping just because they compete in a sport complicit with doping.

Many Forumites maintain that they post here because they love the sport and want to demonstrate a desire to clean it up.

When I ask for proof of someone doping, either step up, or move on. If someone protests someones guilt purely because "everyone is doing it" then they have to expect for EVERYONE to be accused, not just the rider of their choice.

The "all guilty" attitude shows no love for the sport in my eyes, but hey, what do I know?

many have either stepped up (in which case you didn't seem bothererd by the facts). or moved on (in which case you keep claimin that evidence is lacking). Anyway, you're in the Clinic. Why? Cuz cycling is full of junkies. Either present some facts to the contrary or move on.

 

[andy1234]

many have either stepped up (in which case you didn't seem bothererd by the facts). or moved on (in which case you keet claimin that evidence is lacking). Anyway, you're in the Clinic. Why? Cuz cycling is full of junkies. Either present some facts to the contrary or move on.

Were talking about Wiggins here, no one else. Show me the facts, or YOU move on.

 

[Sanitiser]

Wiggins didn't have the same values. He had, from the very limited data provided by Wiggins, what appeared to Landis's completely unqualified mind to be similar values to his.

Does Landis have any idea what clean values should be? Does anyone who posts on here?

Landis should have a good idea since he was in the 'game'. On this forum probably not.

 

[frenchfry]

It would be nice to see the European teams / managers subjected to this much scrutiny.

Not that they have remained above the fray, but it is hard to think of 1 team (except t-mobile perhaps) that has been picked apart like they deserve.

 

[Mambo95]

Landis should have a good idea since he was in the 'game'. On this forum probably not.

I've been on lots of airplanes. It doesn't make me an aeronautical engineer.

I doubt Landis has seen any profile other than his own, so he doesn't have sufficient experience to make any judgements.

Blood profiles are very complex and understood by very few, all with years of academic study under their belt. Anyone pointing to one or two numbers and crying 'Doper!' really shouldn't be given any credence. (Unless the numbers are really extreme)


(If Landis wanted people to believe he knew all about Wiggins, the spelling his name right would be have at least been a start)

 

[Sanitiser]

I've been on lots of airplanes. It doesn't make me an aeronautical engineer.

I doubt Landis has seen any profile other than his own, so he doesn't have sufficient experience to make any judgements.

Blood profiles are very complex and understood by very few, all with years of academic study under their belt. Anyone pointing to one or two numbers and crying 'Doper!' really shouldn't be given any credence. (Unless the numbers are really extreme)


(If Landis wanted people to believe he knew all about Wiggins, the spelling his name right would be have at least been a start)

Fair enough

 

[Ferminal]

I've been on lots of airplanes. It doesn't make me an aeronautical engineer.

I doubt Landis has seen any profile other than his own, so he doesn't have sufficient experience to make any judgements.

Blood profiles are very complex and understood by very few, all with years of academic study under their belt. Anyone pointing to one or two numbers and crying 'Doper!' really shouldn't be given any credence. (Unless the numbers are really extreme)


(If Landis wanted people to believe he knew all about Wiggins, the spelling his name right would be have at least been a start)

Landis more or less ran his own airplane post-USPS.

2005: I had learned at this point how to do most of the transfusion
technicals and other things on my own so I hired Allen Lim as my assistant
to help with details and logistics. He helped Levi Leipheimer and I prepare
the transfusions for Levi and I and made sure they were kept at the proper
temperature. We both did two seperate transfusions that Tour however my
hematocrit was too low at the start so I did my first one a few days before
the start so as to not start with a deficit.

 

[Benotti69]

It would be nice to see the European teams / managers subjected to this much scrutiny.

Not that they have remained above the fray, but it is hard to think of 1 team (except t-mobile perhaps) that has been picked apart like they deserve.

i think you'll find that a french team Festina got destroyed in 1998 in a week.

Phonak was destroyed, a Swiss team after Floyd's and Tyler's positives. 2006??

 

[Benotti69]

I've been on lots of airplanes. It doesn't make me an aeronautical engineer.

I doubt Landis has seen any profile other than his own, so he doesn't have sufficient experience to make any judgements.

Blood profiles are very complex and understood by very few, all with years of academic study under their belt. Anyone pointing to one or two numbers and crying 'Doper!' really shouldn't be given any credence. (Unless the numbers are really extreme)


(If Landis wanted people to believe he knew all about Wiggins, the spelling his name right would be have at least been a start)

I think Floyd did more than sit on the plane

Edit as posted by Ferminal, who is quicker with his keyboard and got a quote too. bravo.

 

[Benotti69]

Were talking about Wiggins here, no one else. Show me the facts, or YOU move on.

Floyd's Levels;

TdF - 30.06.05 hct 44.5%
TdF - 18.07.05 hct 45.2%
TdF - 23.07.05 hct 42.8%

Wiggins Levels;

TdF - 01.07.2009 hemoglobin = 15(g/dl)
TdF - 14.07.2009 hemoglobin = 14(g/dl)
TdF - 20.07.2009 hemoglobin = 15.5(g/dl)
TdF - 25.07.2009 hemoglobin = 13(g/dl)

Wiggins graph shows a peak in the third week same as Floyd

Wiggins climbed Mt Ventoux in TdF 2009 in approximately the same time as Ullrich did in TdF 2000, except Wiggins was riding into a block headwind for most of it.

Here's the riders Ullrich finished with that year;
1 Marco Pantani (Ita) Mercatone Uno-Albacom 4.15.11
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service
3 Joseba Beloki (Spa) Festina 0.25
4 Jan Ullrich (Ger) Team Deutsche Telekom 0.29
5 Santiago Botero (Col) Kelme-Costa Blanca 0.48
6 Roberto Heras (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca
7 Richard Virenque (Fra) Team Polti 1.17


edited see post as corrected by the great Mambo95