Landis Attacks Vaughters

[Sanitiser]

Well they are sort of around as BMC.

 

[Maxiton]

Landis more or less ran his own airplane post-USPS.

Yeah, that didn't work out too well for him, did it? Pilot error. Inertia coupling.

 

[hrotha]

i think you'll find that a french team Festina got destroyed in 1998 in a week.

Phonak was destroyed, a Swiss team after Floyd's and Tyler's positives. 2006??

Also, Comunidad Valenciana (ex-Kelme).

 

[Mambo95]

Floyd's Levels;

TdF - 30.06.05 hct 44.5%
TdF - 18.07.05 hct 45.2%
TdF - 23.07.05 hct 42.8%

Wiggins Levels;

TdF - 01.07.2009 hemoglobin = 65(g/dl)
TdF - 14.07.2009 hemoglobin = 60(g/dl)
TdF - 20.07.2009 hemoglobin = 66/67(g/dl)
TdF - 25.07.2009 hemoglobin = 58(g/dl)

Wiggins graph shows a peak in the third week same as Floyd

Some questions for you.

What time of day where each of the tests done?
How much does the hemoglobin (and Hct) level of an average human vary in a single day?
What does to the hemoglobin (and Hct) graph look like for an average 30 year old man over three week period?
What does the hemoglobin (and Hct) graph of a clean rider in the Tour de France look like?
What impact do dehydration and the toughness of racing have on hemoglobin?
Why are you comparing variations in HCT levels with Hb levels? Do you know what the difference is?
Does your knowledge of blood profiles extend beyond the simplistic (and incorrect) 'number goes up=doping'?

 

[Benotti69]

Some questions for you.

What time of day where each of the tests done?

do you know, i would like to know?

How much does the hemoglobin (and Hct) level of an average human vary in a single day?

irrelavent, as these are trained athletes. an average westerner is unfit and overweight. probably changes climbing the stairs

What does to the hemoglobin (and Hct) graph look like for an average 30 year old man over three week period?

irrelavent, as these are trained athletes.

What does the hemoglobin (and Hct) graph of a clean rider in the Tour de France look like?

probably does not exist as blood level testing was introduced in the 2000's

What impact do dehydration and the toughness of racing have on hemoglobin?

this is a good question and deserves it own thread.

Why are you comparing variations in HCT levels with Hb levels? Do you know what the difference is?

Because those nice people at slipstream provided it this way, obviously to confuse those more familiar with hct% numbers. makes it difficult for the average tour fan to compare

Does your knowledge of blood profiles extend beyond the simplistic (and incorrect) 'number goes up=doping'?

Open a thread about your dehydration and toughness question and we'll see

 

[Sanitiser]

irrelavent, as these are trained athletes. an average westerner is unfit and overweight. probably changes climbing the stairs

Truly Laugh out Loud

 

[thehog]

Thanks for reminding us of this priceless exchange. Can't wait to see what texts and e-mails the feds have captured.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis/instantmessage.html

Yes they have 9000 pages from the Clinic as evidence!

 

[Mambo95]

do you know, i would like

I don't know the answer to this or any of the questions. But then I don't accuse riders based on evidence I don't understand.

Your failure to even attempt to answer any of the questions shows that my lack of knowledge is matched by yours.

Your accusations are therefore the equivalent of a jury convincing a defendent because he 'looks a bit shifty'

 

[andy1234]

I don't know the answer to this or any of the questions. But then I don't accuse riders based on evidence I don't understand.

Your failure to even attempt to answer any of the questions shows that my lack of knowledge OS matched by yours.

Your accusations are therefore the equivalent of a jury convincing a defendent because he 'looks a bit shifty'

A wise man once said:

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

Anyone can regurgitate other peoples "facts". Only some can actually understand it.

 

[frenchfry]

i think you'll find that a french team Festina got destroyed in 1998 in a week.

Phonak was destroyed, a Swiss team after Floyd's and Tyler's positives. 2006??

You are right, the Festina situation was pretty well exposed but I was thinking more recent history. And the team wasn't "destroyed" in the sense that it continued under this name for many years after the 1998 incidents.

I am not sure we really got to the bottom of what happened at Phonak. Sure, lots of riders got popped but Rihs is back with BMC and many of the actors were never outed. I am still curious to know what role Lelangue played for example.

Other teams like Quick Step, Rabobank, Astana etc. are due some in-depth scrutiny. I can understand these forums concentrate on the teams based in English speaking countries, but there must be a lot to be said about the specific operations of other teams.

 

[andy1234]

do you know, i would like to know?



irrelavent, as these are trained athletes. an average westerner is unfit and overweight. probably changes climbing the stairs


irrelavent, as these are trained athletes.


probably does not exist as blood level testing was introduced in the 2000's



this is a good question and deserves it own thread.



Because those nice people at slipstream provided it this way, obviously to confuse those more familiar with hct% numbers. makes it difficult for the average tour fan to compare



Open a thread about your dehydration and toughness question and we'll see

A wise man once said:

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

Anyone can regurgitate other peoples "facts". Only some can actually understand it.

Until you can understand what your talking about, best leave it to someone else...

 

[Benotti69]

A wise man once said:

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

De Cecco pasta, mezza rigatoni, and homemade tomato sauce from our garden's tomatos

of if you prefer, Rigatoni con i sugo pomodori speciale

Buon pranzo regazzi


lots on here professing to be wise, but pro cycling does has no interest in appealing to those who truly are, it wants the couch potato who will watch versus and believe in miracles.

 

[Mambo95]

A wise man once said:

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

If Floyd Lands said he put tomatoes in a fruit salad, everyone on here would say what a brilliant idea it was.

 

[sniper]

a big thanks to andy and mambo for bringing us the facts, knowledge and wisdom. now back to your couches.

 

[Neworld]

Yes they have 9000 pages from the Clinic as evidence!

Yes Hog as usual you are right!

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/lan...ntmessage.html...its Canadian eh?!

Maybe **** Pound lead the CBC to it...hope he too can hammer in a few nails into 'the' coffin. "Sometimes you're the hammer, and sometimes you're the nail!"

NW

 

[Benotti69]

Yes Hog as usual you are right!

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/lan...ntmessage.html...its Canadian eh?!

Maybe **** Pound lead the CBC to it...hope he too can hammer in a few nails into 'the' coffin. "Sometimes you're the hammer, and sometimes you're the nail!"

NW

Sorry, we can't find the page you requested.
Please check the URL in the address bar, or ...
Use the navigation links at left to explore our site, or ...
Enter a term in the Quick Search box at top, or ...
Visit our site map page
In a few moments, you will be taken to our site map page, which will help you find what you looking for.

not joy on that link

 

[Darryl Webster]

Doesn't seem like there's much unity in the USPS old boys club.

Anything and everything than can be put out to put presure on that old boys club has to be a good thing eh?
Theres an awful lot of riders involved over several seasons and while I suspect there was an "inner circle" thats hard to crack, outside of that they`l be riders who know things that feer of losing employment.
At some point, if this investigation is realy to be succesful and bring about a sea change in the way this sport is ran , I thnk an amnesty and hearings in private of riders and support staff by WADA and legal counsil should take place.
Somat along the lines of the "truth and reconsiliation" ideal in South Africa folowing Aphartied.
The "stick" to push for that is threat of exclusion from the Olympics and perhaps WADA to threaten strong public condemnation of the UCI and maybe even to withdraw from over sight re cycling.
If WADA are serious they need to get tough.

 

[Darryl Webster]

FLandis is like Batman. Not the hero cycling wants but the one it deserves

Somone ( I have no idea how to) just has to Photo Shop that Image!..
Im sure it would put a smile on Floyds face.

 

[Mambo95]

Wiggins Levels;

TdF - 01.07.2009 hemoglobin = 65(g/dl)
TdF - 14.07.2009 hemoglobin = 60(g/dl)
TdF - 20.07.2009 hemoglobin = 66/67(g/dl)
TdF - 25.07.2009 hemoglobin = 58(g/dl)

And another thing...

Have another look at the graph. Those aren't his hemoglobin levels. You're looking at the units on the wrong side of the graph. The hemoglobin units are on the right hand side. He's in the 14-15 range, not 58-67 (which would almost certainly be fatal). You're looking at the axis with the units for OFF score figures.

You can't even read read a graph properly, yet you proclaim it as a sign of doping.

 

[krebs303]

De Cecco pasta, mezza rigatoni, and homemade tomato sauce from our garden's tomatos

of if you prefer, Rigatoni con i sugo pomodori speciale

Buon pranzo regazzi


lots on here professing to be wise, but pro cycling does has no interest in appealing to those who truly are, it wants the couch potato who will watch versus and believe in miracles.

buon gusto bella salsiccia

 

[Realist]

If Floyd Lands said he put tomatoes in a fruit salad, everyone on here would say what a brilliant idea it was.

som tum thai

This thread is becoming increasingly delicious.

 

[bianchigirl]

If Floyd Lands said he put tomatoes in a fruit salad, everyone on here would say what a brilliant idea it was.

Actually wouldn't be stupid as tomatoes are technically a fruit

 

[andy1234]

Actually wouldn't be stupid as tomatoes are technically a fruit

Words fail me

 

[Anonymous]

If Floyd Lands said he put tomatoes in a fruit salad, everyone on here would say what a brilliant idea it was.

If Floyd said to put grapes in a fruit salad, people like you would bring up the FFF and why nobody should ever trust him again, and why you believe The Uniballer has more credibility, and how Floyd is bitter, and how Floyd is obviously looking for Whistle Blower money, and how Betsy is a liar, and...

 

[la.margna]

If Floyd Lands said he put tomatoes in a fruit salad, everyone on here would say what a brilliant idea it was.

While this is far from reality, there is no doubt that any uniballer-sect-members would wear yellow headbands or dickrings or yellow wherever their boss tells them to do so