Landis letter re drug use in cycling

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Interviewer from the press conference: "Are you prepared to say you're against performance enhancing drugs?"
Lance: "Of course we're prepared to say it..."

... Of course you didn't actually say it...

I noticed that one too

 

[Von Mises]

Here's Armstrongs average speeds:

2005 - 41.654 km/h
2004 - 41.016 km/h
2003 - 40.030 km/h
2002 - 39.982 km/h
2001 - 40.016 km/h
2000 - 39.556 km/h
1999 - 40.277 km/h

From Tour history book, numbers are:

1999 40.276
2000 39,569
2001 40,070
2002 39,920
2003 40,940
2004 40,553
2005 41,654

So, small differences, but not much.

Though, comparing average speeds over years is complicated.
1) Over decades Tours have became shorter and shorter. Now they are stabilized between 3500-3600 km. In 1960-s they were between 4000-4500 kms. 1970-s around 4000 kilometers. 1980-s between 3500 and 4200 kilometers. But there was two outliers, in 1987-1988 Tour was 3200 kilometers long.
2) Peloton has grown larger and larger over decades. In 1960-s and 1970-s peloton was 100-130 cyclists. Big jump came mid 1980-s when peloton grew to 200 cyclists. No it has stabilized between 180-200 men.
3) I dont know exactly how profiles have changed over years, are they easier or harder? Also team tactis, bikes, road quality, etc?

 

[hektoren]

Here is the NZ state funded, prime time news take on it, if anyone is interested. (It's the first story in chapter 4). It's pretty gentle on Landis and Steve Swart makes a quick comment.

Enjoy the accents, Swart sounds like Greg Henderson.

Alas, "Only available within NZ due to international rights agreement"

 

[Roland Rat]

I noticed that one too

We need Paxman.

 

[Ferminal]

The report on ABC Radio PM earlier -

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2906283.htm

Nothing new, apart from Mike Turtur and Phil Anderson pledging their support.

At least they got some of Kimmage's words in.

 

[showandgo]

Radio interview with Kimmage and McQuaid.

http://www.newstalk.ie/downloads/floyd-landis-accuses-lance-armstrong/

 

[kiwirider]

Here is the NZ state funded, prime time news take on it, if anyone is interested. (It's the first story in chapter 4). It's pretty gentle on Landis and Steve Swart makes a quick comment.

Enjoy the accents, Swart sounds like Greg Henderson.

I imagine that Swart can really empathise with Landis and the onslaught that he's starting to take from the Armstrong camp right now ...

In the mid-'90's Swart was on a NZ version of 60 Minutes on the topic of drug abuse in sport and gave a much more detailled version of events to what appears in LA Confidentiel/Lance to Landis. The topic of the programme was just drug cheats in sport in general rather than anything pointed at cycling or any particular rider - so it's not like there was any obvious motivation to name any particular riders ... which I would suggest adds some credence to his naming of Armstrong as a key proponent of drug use in Motorola.

I wonder if the FDA will be making a trip down under to have a chat to him ... I know (as a qualified lawyer) if it was my case, I sure would be ...

 

[Brooks Fahey Baldwin]

Has anyone considered that Floyd is actually lying?
I know that statement sounds like something spewed from the bile duct of a fan-boy, but just think about it for a moment.

Pharmstrong is of course the greatest doper of all time. You have to tip your hat to him having stayed away from a conviction all this time. But surely part of this success is due to his extraordinary secrecy. Lances "inner circle" is often mentioned. Nothing would escape from planet Lance's ever watching eye. He is known to be a stickler for detail after all.

Is it at all possible that Landis is making it all up because of a case of sour grapes or some falling out along the way though?

If this comes to be the case and teflon man gets away with it again, surely that will bring him one step closer to being totally untouchable.

And to think just how close cycling came to being believable in 2008.

 

[Anonymous]

Morning all. You seen this yet? Video from the RS car after the crash with Lance whining before retiring:

BICYCLING MAGAZINE EXCLUSIVE: Lance Crashes, Drops Out of TOC: http://bit.ly/9mchfL

So that just happened to be the stage that radioshack were carrying a camera in the car, how incredibly convenient..

also very telling how pointless the tour of cali is.. JB requesting they slow down the entire race to wait for lance.

 

[Galic Ho]

and was blackcat right?

GoD DAmN!

On the money. Those Garmin guys were on transfusions.

About time you admitted it. You always said last year they were only using recovery medical, not the hard core stuff, the blood. Of course they were on the blood. They just lacked the refinement.

Good on Floyd. Not like everyone next to him wasn't using and where are they? Still racing is where, not caught.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with you, it would hav eonly been the select few who were selected for access to the jungle juice. I hope Barry is clean, but in a way I hope he isn't as if one part of Floyds evidence is dishonest, then the whole pack of cards comes toppling down and TBH I'd be happy for Barry to be proven to be lying if it gets LA, Bruyneel and the UCI (in its current guise) out of the game once and for all.

Thats my thought, Id like barry to be clean, but if he was then it discredits floyds evidence a bit, which i dont want.

Id like someone to ask micheal barry not "did you dope" but "were you aware of doping at us postal".. no, and yes, would be a nice reply..

 

[RTMcFadden]

Don't think so, and I think it's why they are being very careful to restrict their comments to ad hominem attacks on Floyd as the basis of their defense.

They have to be real careful now (esp. the facilitators on teams, and people like Lim, etc. IF involved). With fed. officials these become criminal matters and they will jail someone who lies to them. Perjury to a federal investigator, even one, is a criminal offense.

The Feds are not patsies like the UCI, and crucially, they have no conflict of interest in simultaneously regulating and promoting the very same "industry" like the UCI does with cycling. They don't have to pull punches.

And that means the USA cycling authorities better start to be real careful, too, because they Feds will be having a good look at them too.

OK, you guys keep focusing on perjury, but that's not the only thing. Below is a listing from the FDA's web site regarding their jurisdiction.

OCI Investigative Jurisdiction
Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA) and other related Acts
Title 21, United States Code, and related acts

Federal Anti-Tampering Act (FATA)
Title18, United States Code § 1365

And related violations of Title 18 United States Code, such as:
Title 18, USC § 287 - False, Fictitious or Fraudulent Claims
Title 18, USC § 371 - Conspiracy to Commit Offense or to Defraud the United States
Title 18, USC § 1001 - False Statements to the Government
Title 18, USC § 1035 - False Statements Relating to Health Care Matters
Title 18, USC § 1341 – Mail Fraud
Title 18, USC § 1343 – Wire Fraud
Title 18, USC § 1347 - Health Care fraud
Title 18, USC § 1505 - Obstruction of Proceedings before Departments /Agencies
Title 18, USC § 1518 - Obstruction of Criminal Investigation of Health Care Offenses
Title 18, USC § 2314 - Interstate Transportation of Stolen Property, or Articles used in Counterfeiting
Title 18, USC § 2315 - Sale or Receipt of stolen goods moved interstate
Title 18, USC § 2320 - Trafficking in Counterfeit Goods

 

[Anonymous]

Congratulations to Roland Rat. By making the 2000th post, you win a virtual T-Shirt. Wear it, burn it, wipe with it, whichever you prefer. But do so proudly:

not a "liestrong" one..

 

[Condorman]

Thats my thought, Id like barry to be clean, but if he was then it discredits floyds evidence a bit, which i dont want.

Id like someone to ask micheal barry not "did you dope" but "were you aware of doping at us postal".. no, and yes, would be a nice reply..

Could ask Cedric Vasseur if he was aware while he was there.

 

[Roland Rat]

Thanks for that RTMcFadden, but how would that apply if it can only be proven to have occurred in France and Spain?

 

[simmspin]

Found this link after watching the news link from NZ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/12/sports/othersports/12cycling.html?pagewanted=print

Of interest:

In testimony in the case, Swart, a retired rider from New Zealand, said top riders on Motorola discussed EPO in 1995. He testified that Armstrong told teammates that there was “only one road to take” to be competitive. In a sworn deposition, Swart said the meaning of Armstrong’s comment was clear: “We needed to start a medical program of EPO.”

EPO, cortisone and testosterone were common in European cycling, Swart said in a telephone interview. He said using cortisone, a steroid, was regarded as “sucking on a candy stick.” Cyclists acquired the drugs from European pharmacies and took them in private, Swart said. “You basically became your own doctor,” he said.

He said signs of drug use were widespread at the 1994 and 1995 Tours, when there was no testing for EPO.

“Everyone was walking around with their own thermos, and you could hear the sound — tinkle, tinkle, tinkle — coming from the thermoses because they were filled with ice and vials of EPO,” Swart said. “You needed to keep the EPO cold, and every night at the hotel, the guys would be running around trying to find some ice to fill up their thermos.”

‘It Was for Lance’

 

[trompe le monde]

OK, you guys keep focusing on perjury, but that's not the only thing. Below is a listing from the FDA's web site regarding their jurisdiction.

OCI Investigative Jurisdiction
Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA) and other related Acts
Title 21, United States Code, and related acts

Federal Anti-Tampering Act (FATA)
Title18, United States Code § 1365

And related violations of Title 18 United States Code, such as:
Title 18, USC § 287 - False, Fictitious or Fraudulent Claims
Title 18, USC § 371 - Conspiracy to Commit Offense or to Defraud the United States
Title 18, USC § 1001 - False Statements to the Government
Title 18, USC § 1035 - False Statements Relating to Health Care Matters
Title 18, USC § 1341 – Mail Fraud
Title 18, USC § 1343 – Wire Fraud
Title 18, USC § 1347 - Health Care fraud
Title 18, USC § 1505 - Obstruction of Proceedings before Departments /Agencies
Title 18, USC § 1518 - Obstruction of Criminal Investigation of Health Care Offenses
Title 18, USC § 2314 - Interstate Transportation of Stolen Property, or Articles used in Counterfeiting
Title 18, USC § 2315 - Sale or Receipt of stolen goods moved interstate
Title 18, USC § 2320 - Trafficking in Counterfeit Goods

Thanks for that. Keep in mind that according to this article the feds used a cheque fraud charge to get Marion Jones to squeal.

A quote from the article, "To extract her confession, he (Novitzky) used the leverage of a more serious charge from an unrelated check-fraud scheme. No positive test result was needed. Ms. Jones pleaded guilty to lying to federal agents."

 

[Roland Rat]

Found this link after watching the news link from NZ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/12/sports/othersports/12cycling.html?pagewanted=print

Of interest:

In testimony in the case, Swart, a retired rider from New Zealand, said top riders on Motorola discussed EPO in 1995. He testified that Armstrong told teammates that there was “only one road to take” to be competitive. In a sworn deposition, Swart said the meaning of Armstrong’s comment was clear: “We needed to start a medical program of EPO.”

EPO, cortisone and testosterone were common in European cycling, Swart said in a telephone interview. He said using cortisone, a steroid, was regarded as “sucking on a candy stick.” Cyclists acquired the drugs from European pharmacies and took them in private, Swart said. “You basically became your own doctor,” he said.

He said signs of drug use were widespread at the 1994 and 1995 Tours, when there was no testing for EPO.

“Everyone was walking around with their own thermos, and you could hear the sound — tinkle, tinkle, tinkle — coming from the thermoses because they were filled with ice and vials of EPO,” Swart said. “You needed to keep the EPO cold, and every night at the hotel, the guys would be running around trying to find some ice to fill up their thermos.”

‘It Was for Lance’

Hey, Dimspace.... depending on how deep this enquiry goes Sean Yates may need to think about hiring a lawyer soon....

 

[RTMcFadden]

Thanks for that RTMcFadden, but how would that apply if it can only be proven to have occurred in France and Spain?

I'm thinking the investigation is going to end up focusing on wire fraud. The money had to come from somewhere. Since Tailwind and USPS/Discovery are/were US based Corporations/organizations, that should mean US institutions were involved in some way. Once they identify the players in this element, then they can run the Prisoners Dilemma and crack the whole thing open.

Two things are working in their favor here. First, the Feds have demonstrated great proclivity in following the money trail. Two, they don't need the big fish, they'll most probably focus on the courier/middleman. This could be an assistant, girlfriend/wife, or family member. Fundamentally, someone with a lot to lose and virtually nothing to gain, as this is a serious crime.

 

[battery89]

“There are two levels of guys,” Andreu said. “You got the guys that cheat and guys that are just trying to survive.”

The other rider who said he used EPO spoke on condition of anonymity because he said he did not want to jeopardize his job in cycling."

Step up JV.

 

[craig1985]

About time you admitted it. You always said last year they were only using recovery medical, not the hard core stuff, the blood. Of course they were on the blood. They just lacked the refinement.

Good on Floyd. Not like everyone next to him wasn't using and where are they? Still racing is where, not caught.

You say something often enough it is bound to come true eventually.

 

[goldcycle26]

Jackpot

Boys i think i just found the jackpot. we may finally have a chance for someone to corroborate Landis' evidence of doping

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/05/20/SPQ81DI61P.DTL

 

[rata de sentina]

This thread is getting a bit out of control. Might need to be broken down a bit. Every 5 pages or so deja vu crops up. Can Brodeal still edit the original post in the sticky thread. If so it might be an idea to paste in some more salient links? Mods?

 

[D Avoid]

Congratulations to Roland Rat. By making the 2000th post, you win a virtual T-Shirt. Wear it, burn it, wipe with it, whichever you prefer. But do so proudly:

Looking at it, you could virtually wise your A$$ on it. Oh, and don't

over anal eyes this, just woken post, which is still moist with

anticipation.

 

[Anonymous]

This thread is getting a bit out of control. Might need to be broken down a bit. Every 5 pages or so deja vu crops up. Can Brodeal still edit the original post in the sticky thread. If so it might be an idea to paste in some more salient links? Mods?

i was thinking that myself. i was almost expecting when i came on this morning this thread to be closed and a "landis day 2" thread to be started..

would be useful if the important links, lance response, and any press reports relevant ie. the barry one etc could be put in the closed sticky.