Landis letter re drug use in cycling

[theswordsman]

...and Lemond chimes in.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...andis_statements_about_doping_in_cycling.html

From that link:

In that lawsuit, LeMond subpoenaed Armstrong's ex-wife, Kristin Armstrong, for a deposition in which she was asked if she ever saw her ex-husband use performance-enhancing drugs. She did not answer, on orders from her attorney, Tim Herman, who has represented Lance Armstrong as well.

I wonder if this might change, as the relationship has. In the past, he was right up the block so they could share the kids. The summer before the comeback, when he moved to California to train with Peter Park(?), she went there too with the kids.

Now he's got the house in Colorado, lived in California in November, spent weeks away in Hawaii or Africa or France, where the kids were up to her. He's got the girlfriend, a son that he apparently dotes on, and another baby on the way. Kristin spends way less time with him around, as do her kids.

I used to read her running blog, and she wrote a lot about life as a Christian, taking some heat for it from readers. I wonder if his change in living arrangements night be enough to get her to voluntarily open up?

 

[Hillavoider]

There is nothing new from Lemond here. As much as like him, Lemond doesn't have much credibility here. He has been on a lance witch hunt for a long time. He also seems to want to paint any successful cyclist as a doper. If I recall he was calling contador a doper last TdF. Is he right about that too?

yes, yes he is

 

[Cozy Beehive]

Irony

First time joining this convo. I'd like to share this news story from 2006. Anyone remember this? http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/14321032/ns/sports-tour_de_france/

I think the comedy becomes apparent when you take all the information that is gleaned and left to be gleaned, right when it started back in the 90's, and study it over the timeline right to our present era. Its pretty clear who the hyprocrites are.

 

[pedaling squares]

1. It sure is nice to hear that a seasoned federal agent will be investigating this. Obviously we cannot put any faith in any of the cycling federations or the UCI.

2. Fatty McQuack's comments dismissing the allegations without so much as taking a peek at the content is outrageous. If the IOC had any credibility (I know, I know) they would toss him out immediately.

3. I liked Brailsford's comments about Barry. That's what a team director should say. Support the process but back your man too. Landis's allegations carry weight but little in the way of solid evidence. Now, if an old sample is re-tested or if others sing a different song when a federal agent is asking the questions instead of a journalist...

4. Compare Brailsford to Vaughters. The disappointment of the day. Dave Z can win with a clear conscience and an open heart? Bad leadership, bad judgement, bad poetry.

5. Now the Bruyneel approach. "Landis has always been an angry man." Oh really? All the times I've seen you discussing Floyd Landis and you failed to bring that up. Let me dig up some of your quotes about Landis circa 2004...

6. Why is Popo a stud when he works for Bruyneel and a dog when he doesn't?

7. Armstrong may never ride again, but the big victory for cycling is if Bruyneel never leads a team again. If that were to happen, Landis would have struck a blow in the favour of clean cycling. Right now the message to other leaders is "we might as well cheat."

 

[offbyone]

From that link:



I wonder if this might change, as the relationship has. In the past, he was right up the block so they could share the kids. The summer before the comeback, when he moved to California to train with Peter Park(?), she went there too.

Now he's got the house in Colorado, lived in California in November, spent weeks away in Hawaii or Africa or France, where the kids were up to her. He's got the girlfriend, a son that he apparently dotes on, and another baby on the way. Kristin spends way less time with him around, as do her kids.

I used to read her running blog, and she wrote a lot about life as a Christian, taking some heat for it from readers. I wonder if his change in living arrangements night be enough to get her to voluntarily open up?

I realize that you are dying for someone to backup the argument but this isn't realistic. Lance is the father of her children. Do you think she is going take on the responsibility of ruining her kids' father's reputation. It is a bit scary how much you know about lance and his family.

 

[thehog]

His credibility means everything, especially in the absence of any hard proof. What you have is a guy who has lied and taken money, a lot of money, from fans over the past few years to try and uphold his now acknowledged, false claims of innocence. In any court of law or deliberation the credibility of the accuser is always at the forefront of the issue. Landis has no credibility and I would be amazed if anyone would side with him, whether he is telling the truth or not. If has has sent threatening emails to event organisers and others then he may as well jump into a black hole somewhere.

If he has hard evidence to support his claims, then fine let him bring it on. But if he hasn't then he has no foundation on which to make his claims other than his say so which will be worth squat.

Your Serpico analogy does not apply here because as you say Serpico never lied or took bribes. In Landis's case he has done both and even worse has defrauded thousands of people out of money to support him in his lies and denials. As a credible witness then there is no comparison between the two.

I like the call for hard evidence. What witnessing a crime with your own eyes is not hard evidence? We'd better re-write the constitution and international law whilst we at it because witness statement are now inadmissible in court. Everyone must have a photo of any crime taking place.

Oh please come on? Hard evidence. So tell me what is hard evidence? I don’t think you actually know. Is hard evidence a legal term?

 

[mr. tibbs]

Have you been drinking?

If this is how you behave on forums like RBR it's no wonder you are banned from there.

We've all been drinking. Heavily. That is what we do here. And not kool-aid, or whatever. Refer to the general board's "What Beer Ya Drinking" thread for details.

Welcome, and crack a beer, or a glass of wine, or water or whatever.

 

[tubularglue]

In what sense is talking about things from the early part of last decade "breaking Omerta"? If he admitted to his own doping, that is one thing, but to go back and apparently spill the beans on Armstrong is really nasty. Landis wasn't even on LA's team when he got caught.

I'm surprised people who think of themselves decent people don't see this. Armstrong maybe a tough character to people that cross him, but he would never do this if he went down. You'll never see Armstrong turning on Bruyneel or the UCI out of spite because he has gotten caught just to court some people on the internet.

He is working within the statute of limitations. He states this in his letter. Is he referencing the Insurance/claim payout ? curious

what is about to run out ?

 

[ploglet]

Lemond and his constant accusations

It is all fine and good that Lemond is going after Armstrong and anyone else that ****es him off but why doesn't he just come out and say that he doped. Back then I think it was mandatory for them. He should just come clean and get on with it.

Guy is just a jackass.

 

[Laszlo]

In what sense? Are you disagreeing that Landis has spent years taking people's money to defend himself, and is only taking this decision now after he has no legal avenues left? He says he's not even ashamed of doping.

You've got to admit it's completely spiteful at best. There is nothing noble in what he has done - whether or not you are pleased with the outcome.

IF what he says is true. ( I personally don't and haven't, given him credibility- but I am willing to defer to the evidence, where ever that may lead ).

I never buy this "don't snitch" philosophy. I tell my kids, if you see something wrong at school, you should tell. I snitched on some vandals at school, and prevented an innocent classmate from being expelled ( they were instead, and the school was better for it). Hiding criminals and liars is not noble. Always say the truth of what you know.

 

[pedaling squares]

Lance Armstrong, "I am a fan and supporter of Floyd Landis. I believe in him.”

Me too Lance. Me too.

 

[Anonymous]

I realize that you are dying for someone to backup the argument but this isn't realistic. Lance is the father of her children. Do you think she is going take on the responsibility of ruining her kids' father's reputation. It is a bit scary how much you know about lance and his family.

Lance abandoned his family and wife who saw him through his cancer. He then went for a succession of other women who look like his mother...and an Olsen twin. It is scary how little you know about Lance and his family. I feel sorry for his children. Having a father like that is bound to turn out bad for the kids.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yeah it's very creepy....and they wonder why they get kicked off other sites.

You've been kicked off here more than all other posters have been kicked off any other site. Even if you are pathetic, you're a bit entertaining.

 

[Anonymous]

We've all been drinking. Heavily. That is what we do here. And not kool-aid, or whatever. Refer to the general board's "What Beer Ya Drinking" thread for details.

Welcome, and crack a beer, or a glass of wine, or water or whatever.

Thorazine is his drink of choice.

 

[red_flanders]

It is all fine and good that Lemond is going after Armstrong and anyone else that ****es him off but why doesn't he just come out and say that he doped. Back then I think it was mandatory for them. He should just come clean and get on with it.

Guy is just a jackass.

Funny, I don't see any of his teammates saying he doped. On the contrary, they say he didn't.

What a ****ing jackass.

 

[pedaling squares]

It is all fine and good that Lemond is going after Armstrong and anyone else that ****es him off but why doesn't he just come out and say that he doped. Back then I think it was mandatory for them. He should just come clean and get on with it.

Guy is just a jackass.

Go read the numerous threads where this has been discussed ad nauseam. Nice attempt at thread hijack. This isn't about Lemond. It's about Armstrong, Bruyneel, and their organized blood doping outfit.

 

[tubularglue]

Like Joe Papp, Armstrong and others, he wants to be a big star and have attention. It's not an attack on him to point out this is what this is about. It's just a fact. He's obviously not doing it because he suddenly thinks doping is wrong - he still says he's not ashamed about that, and four years of trying to play the system speaks for itself.

It's just ashame that he has to tear down others because it didn't work out for him. Whatever you say about him, when he was standing by his guns you had to respect him for taking the rap. Now he has lost that last bit of honour.

Did you just answer my questions above ? what are you typing on about ?

I wish the paid media people would stop typing

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

It is all fine and good that Lemond is going after Armstrong and anyone else that ****es him off but why doesn't he just come out and say that he doped. Back then I think it was mandatory for them. He should just come clean and get on with it.

Guy is just a jackass.

You are an absolute moron. Absolute.

 

[offbyone]

Lance abandoned his family and wife who saw him through his cancer. He then went for a succession of other women who look like his mother...and an Olsen twin. It is scary how little you know about Lance and his family. I feel sorry for his children. Having a father like that is bound to turn out bad for the kids.

In america, the divorce rate is close to 50%. When you are divorced you are actually allowed to date anyone. You might be getting lance mixed up with tiger.
Seriously, though cmon, there is no need to write ridiculous things like "Lance abandoned his family ". There are plenty of actual facts to make your point with.

 

[Ferminal]

Look, you can say all the outlandish things you like , but that doesn't make it true. Or maybe you are just following Landis' lead.

Cyclists that dope do it by choice. They know the consequences and risks they take. I would be saddened if phinney and sergent are doping, but if they are they can only blame themselves.

Don't be so naive to think that doping is confined to people connected with lance armstrong. Doping would be just as rampant with our without him. You can paint him as the single evil doping mastermind of cycling if you like, but that is just naive.

I never suggested so - this isn't just LA, it's about uprooting the corrupt and fraudulent within the sport.

Young cyclists just want to ride and win, and they get to a point in their career where they have to choose whether they will continue to win, or whether they will leave the sport.

As long as the same framework continues within the sport, they will continue to be faced with that difficult choice - stop blaming the individual, doping is not their fault. Cyclists don't make money off doping, owners, managers and doctors do. Cyclists just get to live their dream.

 

[theswordsman]

Greetings to all the shiny new posters. Have you been reading the forum for some time and just decided to join the fray? Did you come together by bus, because a lot of you seem to be on the same side? Have fun.

On a serious note, the Larry King Live rerun is in ten minutes. I have no idea what was said by Bruyneel, or Neil Browne of VeloNews, or who else might have been on the show. Here's a really good feed.

http://atdhe.net/tv/watch_cnn.html

 

[Anonymous]

In america, the divorce rate is close to 50%. When you are divorced you are actually allowed to date anyone. You might be getting lance mixed up with tiger.
Seriously, though cmon, there is no need to write ridiculous things like "Lance abandoned his family ". There are plenty of actual facts to make your point with.

Oh no, it is a fact. He abandoned his family for the life of a roaming whore. See, you may say "he sees his kids all the time, blah, blah, blah." Obviously, you are unfamiliar with the psychological damage caused by a parent like him leaving their mother and them and moving on to new pastures. He will eventually do the same with the children he is currently siring. Makes me want to puke.

 

[Ferminal]

It's really not about that at all. The sport is cleaning up fast with the blood passport and cleaner teams like Garmin and Sky playing a key role in the peloton.

What this is about is a very personal vendetta against Lance Armstrong as an individual. You only have to read a couple of pages of the thread to realise that is the prime motivation for most people here. Be honest about it and don't hide behind this "cleaning up the sport" crap. It's bull.

Clean riders like Evans and Wiggins are not supported at all on this site. You people couldn't give a crap about "cleaning up the sport". It's a con.

loltroll...

You don't even care about Lance, even when you defend him, you're just a forum troll and will defend/accuse anyone as long as it disrupts the forums.

 

[Ferminal]

Seriously, what kind of troll suggests that Garmin is a cleaner team?

Two current empoyees and one former employee directly implicated by Landis.

 

[offbyone]

I never suggested so - this isn't just LA, it's about uprooting the corrupt and fraudulent within the sport.

Young cyclists just want to ride and win, and they get to a point in their career where they have to choose whether they will continue to win, or whether they will leave the sport.

As long as the same framework continues within the sport, they will continue to be faced with that difficult choice - stop blaming the individual, doping is not their fault. Cyclists don't make money off doping, owners, managers and doctors do. Cyclists just get to live their dream.

They still make the choice and all these guys are smart enough to know what they are doing. I do agree that the culture must change.

However, I guess i am optimistic, I feel like that change is already happening and doing so on a big scale. Personally, I really think what garmin has done to be a giant step in the right direction. In order to do that you have to have buy in from the managers, doctors and promoters. Columbia has also taken some steps in the anti doping fight within their organization. These are the two big, established but still up and coming american teams. Being that I think the change is occurring and from the top down, I don't see this point as an issue.