Landis letter re drug use in cycling

[craig1985]

You're right it does make me think.....

Things like, how mnay usernames have you had on this site now, it must be well over 40

And do you have to get a new IP address or is the CN security not all that great?

You have to hand it to him, he sure is persistent. At first you don't succeed, try try again...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Interesting nothing on Twitter by Vaughters. Not even about the race.

Vaughters and Z need to get some spine and be honest for once. Though I doubt they will.

 

[Aerodynamics]

I'm a bit pi$$ed off you guys tonight, you know. You really don't get it, do you.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

You have to hand it to him, he sure is persistent. At first you don't succeed, try try again...

Yep. This guy has been dry-humping this site for months.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Yeah, and there was also an independant Dutch investigation that pretty much evisercated that entire process.

Here it is for you.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/dutch-report-clears-armstrong/2006/06/01/1148956427078.html

http://www.tdfblog.com/2006/06/thoughts_on_the.html

62.50.72.82/imgArchive/Homepage/Rapport%20HR%20zonder.pdf

Now, why would I take one side and simply ignore the other side if the issue is about EVIDENCE?

Why is it OK for Lance Bashers to universally condem Lance, but then take issue when someone says, "Stop the pointless bashing!"

If you only want to look at one side of an issue? Your choice.

If you want to focus only on Landis accussations against Lance and ignore everything else and its implication? Your choice.

If you want to put a finger in my chest and demand I simply take you position? Expect a finger right back.

The system MUST use evidence, ALL of it, in reaching conclusions.

It´s a matter of how the public sees it or how the involved parties see it. There´s never 100% safe evidence. Not even in DNA-cases.

You say he didn´t dope because the "independent" UCI-Man (Virjam) said he didn´t. What makes the UCI-Man a better person than for example any attorney of other accused cyclists. In your point of view no one ever has doped. Because as far as i remember every cyclist had some evidence, that they have not doped, brought up by their attorneys.

Your logic is lousy, because you ignore one side. Lance Armstrong is convicted, only PR-Tricks and the corrupt UCI saved him. Other riders were banned/forced to retire with a lot less evidence.

 

[Wroots Clutten]

This is going nowhere.

Firstly, has anyone other than Lance ever made a donation to the UCI?

If so, who? when? Is anyone looking into this?

I'm neither pro, nor anti Armstrong. I just like bike racing. But...

Secondly, it's abundantly clear that cycling is a European sport. Americans don't care. Is our guy winning? - Yeah! - OK, great.

So is it not strange that other European sports are investing big time in the US? Beckham's transfer to the US makes no sense to ay European, until you consider the $$$, and why do they want him - to increase the profile of the sport.

Likewise, why am I reading that Bernie Ecclestone is close to a deal for holding a Formula One race at Monticello for 10 years? Last time they raced, there was something like cars 8 on the grid and the fans walked out.

Basically, this is bigger than a couple of guys calling each other names. This is bigger than the UCI. This is about breaking America. About Money.

Problem is, Americans only give a fook about the myth.

And what's wrong with that?

 

[buckwheat]

Vaughters and Z need to get some spine and be honest for once. Though I doubt they will.

They have 3 choices, two of them are bad.

They can cooperate, not cooperate or lie.

I'm thinking they'll cooperate.

 

[Cal_Joe]

This is going nowhere.

Firstly, has anyone other than Lance ever made a donation to the UCI?

If so, who? when? Is anyone looking into this?

I'm neither pro, nor anti Armstrong. I just like bike racing. But...

Secondly, it's abundantly clear that cycling is a European sport. Americans don't care. Is our guy winning? - Yeah! - OK, great.

So is it not strange that other European sports are investing big time in the US? Beckham's transfer to the US makes no sense to ay European, until you consider the $$$, and why do they want him - to increase the profile of the sport.

Likewise, why am I reading that Bernie Ecclestone is close to a deal for holding a Formula One race at Monticello for 10 years? Last time they raced, there was something like cars 8 on the grid and the fans walked out.

Basically, this is bigger than a couple of guys calling each other names. This is bigger than the UCI. This is about breaking America. About Money.

Problem is, Americans only give a fook about the myth.

And what's wrong with that?

Thank you for your insight regarding all Americans. I am one of those and did not realize my shortcomings. I promise to repent.

I am glad that you have the comfort of knowing that no sports in Europe are driven by money. I do believe I will emigrate - how could I pass up such a Utopia?

 

[Road Hazard]

kinda like politics...dont prosecute nixon via ford...obama now with bush and actually doing anything about crimes...not hijacking the thread here...but it is the same...why? just to keep the same bull**** going...it is the past...will hurt us to take a look at it...move on folks, nothing to see here and think positive and go forward...only way blah blah......ect ect...this sorta crap, even in an individual's life destroys...hey man, forget about your past and move on...say that to a drug addict, or embezzler...ect or whatever...but when it comes to MONEY...and that is what this is via JV...or LA...or fat mcQuail... whomever via cycling now...it is all the same...things will not change here...which is too ****ing bad because I want my sport to have some semblance of honesty...

So true. This story will fade just like the political examples you mentioned.

Money, or skeleton's in the closet of those who could prove it always trump justice.

Maybe that's why the only people willing to go on the record always seem to be the "nothing to lose" type, who by nature of the fact that they have lost everything and have "nothing to lose" also have everything to gain. They are seen as desperate because they usually are. Not that they aren't telling the truth, it's just that they are desperate nut jobs telling the truth. The non-nut-jobs keep their secrets and the status quo.

 

[Wroots Clutten]

Forgive me. Not an attack on Americans. We're every bit as venal in Europe. Just raising the question is all.

 

[Road Hazard]

Edit: nevermind.

 

[buckwheat]

So true. This story will fade just like the political examples you mentioned.

Money, or skeleton's in the closet of those who could prove it always trump justice.

Maybe that's why the only people willing to go on the record always seem to be the "nothing to lose" type, who by nature of the fact that they have lost everything and have "nothing to lose" also have everything to gain. They are seen as desperate because they usually are. Not that they aren't telling the truth, it's just that they are desperate nut jobs telling the truth. The non-nut-jobs keep their secrets and the status quo.

Nope, it won't fade. The wheels are set in motion with this Novitzky and now he'll be questioning everyone..

Too late to stop it.

 

[Oldman]

Yep. This guy has been dry-humping this site for months.

I wondered what that rash was on my shin. Better use some Blocking Cortesone creme. Oh, dayum; I've got a race tomorrow and no TUE. Please forgive me...it's starting to itch.

 

[Wroots Clutten]

Seriously? There's no corruption in Europe? There are no self-delusional, cultural myths in Europe?

As mentioned above - we're no better in Europe. We're pants too. Just trying to highlight a trend of European sporting business trying to crack into the American market. That's all.

 

[flicker]

Ok everyone, I know this is off topic as I cannot keep up with how fast this thread is moving, but I want to say this and ignore it if you will but I think it's what we've all wanted for a very long time:

Floyd, thank you. You've done what so many people, racers, forumers, doubters have wanted to happen for such a long time. Vroomen said today short-term pain is long term gain and he couldn't have be so right. It's so obvious of the UCI's corruption. It's so obvious of the whole LA/JB camp. Ferrari is good because of one thing and the dude does not waste his time unless his clients can pay. For all of you that were there, now is the time to make things right. Do it. For this sport. People will believe you because you were there. Send cycling in the direction that we all want it to go. Please. Be apart of this.

ITMW

Oh yes Floyd and thank you for cheating at the first ToC. Thank you for cheating at the tour of georgia. Oh and thank you for cheating at those monumental stage races in europe. you make us so proud Fred Taylor

PS Do you think you might get sued for all the races you cheating in and won? What do you think the clean riders you "beat" feel? Or the promoters or us fans feel? That goes for you too Joe Papp AKA Papillion. Thanks for clearing you conscience. NOT!

 

[Road Hazard]

Nope, it won't fade. The wheels are set in motion with this Novitzky and now he'll be questioning everyone..

Too late to stop it.

It would be nice, for once, to see the political lier exposed, the tax cheat fined, that guy in the office who doesn't do s**t fired, and the doper's medals stripped.

I am too cynical... but cheers in advance if any of the above happens.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This is going nowhere.

Firstly, has anyone other than Lance ever made a donation to the UCI?

If so, who? when? Is anyone looking into this?

I'm neither pro, nor anti Armstrong. I just like bike racing. But...

Secondly, it's abundantly clear that cycling is a European sport. Americans don't care. Is our guy winning? - Yeah! - OK, great.

So is it not strange that other European sports are investing big time in the US? Beckham's transfer to the US makes no sense to ay European, until you consider the $$$, and why do they want him - to increase the profile of the sport.

Likewise, why am I reading that Bernie Ecclestone is close to a deal for holding a Formula One race at Monticello for 10 years? Last time they raced, there was something like cars 8 on the grid and the fans walked out.

Basically, this is bigger than a couple of guys calling each other names. This is bigger than the UCI. This is about breaking America. About Money.

Problem is, Americans only give a fook about the myth.

And what's wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with 'supporting a myth' - however the public (regardless of nationality) do not normally like to find out that what they have been 'supporting' is false. Think Tiger and his credibility.

But Tigers image was false, not his sporting prowess - which is the difference for Armstrong in that his actual athletic ability was fueled by PED's and making payments to sporting authorities.

You raise an excellent point in regards to who else may have 'donated' to the UCI - this needs to be revealed and indeed the UCI should be subject to an independent financial audit.

 

[Road Hazard]

As mentioned above - we're no better in Europe. We're pants too. Just trying to highlight a trend of European sporting business trying to crack into the American market. That's all.

I removed my intercontinental salvo between the time of your first and second posts. Trying to use a forum as an instant messenger is proving troublesome.

Many people in the US do like cycling and would like it to grow as a sport.

I was at stage 3 of the tour of California, and it was well-attended I thought, for a Tuesday.

And believe it or not, *most* of the people I speak to, and most of the conversations I hear are very much anti-Lance Armstrong.

At the TOC, these couple people were walking up and down the line of spectators with "I ride for _______" signs that you could presumably purchase to support Livestrong and put the name of the, whoever, on the sign. Those people were politely but almost universally heckled by the crowd.

 

[Wroots Clutten]

You raise an excellent point in regards to who else may have 'donated' to the UCI - this needs to be revealed and indeed the UCI should be subject to an independent financial audit.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Doctor Maserati!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Oh yes Floyd and thank you for cheating at the first ToC. Thank you for cheating at the tour of georgia. Oh and thank you for cheating at those monumental stage races in europe. you make us so proud Fred Taylor

PS Do you think you might get sued for all the races you cheating in and won? What do you think the clean riders you "beat" feel? Or the promoters or us fans feel? That goes for you too Joe Papp AKA Papillion. Thanks for clearing you conscience. NOT!

Empty words from a Lance fanboy.

 

[flicker]

I removed my intercontinental salvo between the time of your first and second posts. Trying to use a forum as an instant messenger is proving troublesome.

Many people in the US do like cycling and would like it to grow as a sport.

I was at stage 3 of the tour of California, and it was well-attended I thought, for a Tuesday.

And believe it or not, *most* of the people I speak to, and most of the conversations I hear are very much anti-Lance Armstrong.

At the TOC, these couple people were walking up and down the line of spectators with "I ride for _______" signs that you could presumably purchase to support Livestrong and put the name of the, whoever, on the sign. Those people were politely but almost universally heckled by the crowd.

Yeah true. I am from Monterey. But you forgot to add that Santa Cruz and Berkeley California are the two most whacked out cities in the world.

 

[Wroots Clutten]

Hey Road Hazard, no problem. I also want cycling to flourish in the US. We agree!

 

[Road Hazard]

Empty words from a Lance fanboy.

Well I'm going to get my post count up tonight or break my keyboard trying.

The problem is that whether or not he is a fanboy, his words are not empty.

Consider these allegations:

"He is an opportunistic scum-bag who will turn on former teammates and 'friends'"

"His website is duplicitous and designed to solicit funds that are not used as advertised."

"He is in it for the money."

Do any of these statements apply to Armstrong but not Landis, or Landis but not Armstrong?

Edit: I forgot one

"He has been connected to positive doping test results (leaving aside whether prosecuted or not)"?

 

[Cal_Joe]

Empty words from a Lance fanboy.

Not a Flandis fan does not equate to being a LA fan.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Well I'm going to get my post count up tonight or break my keyboard trying.

The problem is that whether or not he is a fanboy, his words are not empty.

Consider these allegations:

"He is an opportunistic scum-bag who will turn on former teammates and 'friends'"

"His website is duplicitous and designed to solicit funds that are not used as advertised."

"He is in it for the money."

Do any of these statements apply to Armstrong but not Landis, or Landis but not Armstrong?

Those allegations are irrelevant. The only relevant allegations are the ones Floyd is making about Armstrong. And none of the muppets can answer a simple question. If Floyd is a liar and spreading unfounded accusations, why is he not already the subject of a defamation lawsuit? Why is Lance not threatening him as he threatened others with legal action?

We already know why.