Last clean Grand Tour winner?

[BigBoat]

OMG

Sastre then Lemond?

seriously?


Just leave it at Lemond. I would think that is the last hope for a clean TDF winner.

I think it was Lemond. Hinault was on more 'stuff' than Lemond. Sastre was blood doped for the final TT in 08.

 

[SirLes]

Perhaps we should try and name any clean tdf winners before we castigate those that have doped and won.

It's like the list of choices for the position of Lord High Executioner in Blackadder.

1) Greg Lemond
2) That's it

 

[patricknd]

lemond???? you fanboys are as bad as the others

 

[Escarabajo]

lemond???? you fanboys are as bad as the others

Do you have anything else to say?

 

[blaxland]

I think it was Lemond. Hinault was on more 'stuff' than Lemond. Sastre was blood doped for the final TT in 08.

Would have to agree Bigboat lemond "the last" and sastre=no way................

 

[Oldman]

Would have to agree Bigboat lemond "the last" and sastre=no way................

Lemond's first win...not sure about the '89 miracle. Too much individual training with Otto and too little real racing after almost quitting that same season. Loved the drama that year and am sure Fignon enjoyed all the same training perks available to Greg. All things were equal and fair in that regard.

 

[patricknd]

Do you have anything else to say?

and i would think otherwise why?

 

[Escarabajo]

and i would think otherwise why?

Were there any clean GT winners in the past? That was the question at the beginning of the thread. You can give a vote and an opinion if you want. But don't come in here and say nothing just to fill space.
Thanks.

 

[ravens]

I'm in denial. I'm hoping Contador is clean. Seriously. Call me stupid. I can take it.

Jeeezzusss Aith, Man! I love him as much as anyone, verbier almost brought me to tears.

but c'mon....

 

[blackcat]

from an impeccable source
*Eric Caritoux winning the 84 Vuelta. Willy Voet swears he was on bread and water in 1984, didn't get on a program until later.
* Hampsten, winner 88 Giro
* Lemond - no evidence of doping other than very very vague speculation around 89
* Charly Mottet - 90 Giro 2nd overall. Start of the epo era, Bugno slaughtered them.
* Bernt Johansson - a <person in his network> the Giro one year. Johansson rode and has podiumed. <said person> swears Johansson was clean. Didn't say the same thing about Moser though.

I have different mail on one rider there, not Lemond tho, and my mail was he was not clean. Grist for the mill tho

 

[red_flanders]

lemond???? you fanboys are as bad as the others

And people wonder why he speaks out. He's accused just for being a cyclist without a single shred of evidence, rumor or proof.

 

[blackcat]

my source just kicked me up the *** cos she is an utter see nut.

 

[patricknd]

And people wonder why he speaks out. He's accused just for being a cyclist without a single shred of evidence, rumor or proof.

but that is the norm on forums, as my comments were meant to illustrate.

 

[red_flanders]

but that is the norm on forums, as my comments were meant to illustrate.

I don't see how it could be the norm, as the it is the norm for cyclists to actually have evidence, rumour and/or proof against them.

If there's a story or report about LeMond, by all means, let's hear it. Otherwise, I think we should celebrate the rare top cyclist who is free from this kind of crap.

 

[ChrisE]

I'm still wondering why the power numbers from the 91 and 92 tour are less than GL's in 89.

 

[patricknd]

I don't see how it could be the norm, as the it is the norm for cyclists to actually have evidence, rumour and/or proof against them.

If there's a story or report about LeMond, by all means, let's hear it. Otherwise, I think we should celebrate the rare top cyclist who is free from this kind of crap.

pointing out the hypocrisy, as people base cleanliness on affection for certain riders, but rumor is acceptable for accusations against others. and what about those power numbers, hmmmm? sounds mighty suspicious to me. care to explain?

 

[Race Radio]

pointing out the hypocrisy, as people base cleanliness on affection for certain riders, but rumor is acceptable for accusations against others. and what about those power numbers, hmmmm? sounds mighty suspicious to me. care to explain?

I seldom see rumor discussed here, unless it has to do with Greg. Could you give us an example?

 

[patricknd]

I seldom see rumor discussed here, unless it has to do with Greg. Could you give us an example?

read this thread from beginning to end. there is your example.

 

[BroDeal]

Rumor == anything the weak minded don't want to believe

 

[patricknd]

Rumor == anything the weak minded don't want to believe

that was clever. and less than an hour and a half to come up with it. my, you are swift, aren't you?

now try reading this whole thread, if you're able. it's filled with opinions based on personal feeling. that's what i was pointing out with the lemond comments. what i said had no more basis in truth than many of the others, but surely you caught that.

 

[Race Radio]

that was clever. and less than an hour and a half to come up with it. my, you are swift, aren't you?

now try reading this whole thread, if you're able. it's filled with opinions based on personal feeling. that's what i was pointing out with the lemond comments. what i said had no more basis in truth than many of the others, but surely you caught that.

Could you be more specific. Which particular rumor do you have a problem with? Was it the one about Lemond? If yes, then I agree with you. Not much to that.

 

[blackcat]

I'm still wondering why the power numbers from the 91 and 92 tour are less than GL's in 89.

does not necessarily mean one is charging in the previous not O2 vector drug era.

If you were to say, Lemond averaged 420 watts, then sheesh...

 

[patricknd]

Could you be more specific. Which particular rumor do you have a problem with? Was it the one about Lemond? If yes, then I agree with you. Not much to that.

i have a problem with all the rumors. here's one for you. race radio enjoys having sexual relations with sheep.

it's out there, so it must be true. after all, you've seen sheep, so we all know what you're about.

there is as much truth in that as there is in "he rode for_______, so he couldn't be clean."

idiotic statements get tiresome.

 

[Race Radio]

does not necessarily mean one is charging in the previous not O2 vector drug era.

If you were to say, Lemond averaged 420 watts, then sheesh...

I have see many numbers for the final TT in 1989 anywhere from 390-410 watts for 24 minutes. Within a few years riders were doing 495 watts for close to 40 minutes. I am sure this huge leap was from high cadence pedaling.

 

[Race Radio]

i have a problem with all the rumors. here's one for you. race radio enjoys having sexual relations with sheep.

it's out there, so it must be true. after all, you've seen sheep, so we all know what you're about.

there is as much truth in that as there is in "he rode for_______, so he couldn't be clean."

idiotic statements get tiresome.

Sorry, I am not from New Zealand.

You have a legit point. Pevenage, Saiz, Lefevre, Brunyeel,Gianetti. All have an extensive, well documented, history of team organized doping. If the ONLY evidence of possible doping is that a rider once rode for one of these DS' then the case would be weak. For example I do not think Tim Johnson doped when he rode for Gianetti at SD. Bassons did not dope on Festina.

But if a rider has an extensive history of questionable events, like the DNA tests of Ulrich and Valverde, or the associations with doping doctors like Ricco then the fact that they have spent time with a dirty DS only adds to the overall narrative.