Le Tour 2018 stage 10: Annecy > Le Grand-Bornand 158,5 km

[jaylew]

2007 Pais Vasco Cobo was awesome.

 

[tobydawq]

A fun stat (I have NO idea how this has been discovered): GVA has increased his lead on GC for 6 consecutive stages. Only Merckx has ever done that before him (this is the part I'm confused about how has come to light).

 

[Koronin]

Re:

I'm looking at the video now. It's Dumoulin on the wheels of the 3 Skys

From front to back, the group is:
Bernal
Froome
Thomas
Dumoulin
Yates
Nibali
Quintana
Landa
Kruijswijk
Roglic
Fuglsang
Bardet
Latour

and re-watching it I just realized Valverde wasn't dropped, he was between Nibali and Quintana, then stopped pedalling and started fiddling with his chain. Mechanical?

Nibali said in his comments after the stage that Valverde dropped his chain. Later Valverde confirmed he'd dropped his chain and had to fixed it.

 

[tobydawq]

Yeah, we have known that for seven hours.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

I'm looking at the video now. It's Dumoulin on the wheels of the 3 Skys

From front to back, the group is:
Bernal
Froome
Thomas
Dumoulin
Yates
Nibali
Quintana
Landa
Kruijswijk
Roglic
Fuglsang
Bardet
Latour

and re-watching it I just realized Valverde wasn't dropped, he was between Nibali and Quintana, then stopped pedalling and started fiddling with his chain. Mechanical?

OK, probably my mistake.
(EDIT: mistake or fault - hope any native speaker helps me..).

You were right with your comment. In that case mistake is the correct word.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/dan-martin-tour-france-stage-10-attack/

Dan Martin says serious attacks were basically suicidal because of the headwind. Also that his attack was planned - UAE thought in advance that anyone in the red and a few seconds back at the final crest would probably lose substantial time on whatever group they were dropped from, so a short charge would be energy well spent. He says the next two days will be brutal and lots more guys will attack.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/dan-martin-tour-france-stage-10-attack/

Dan Martin says serious attacks were basically suicidal because of the headwind. Also that his attack was planned - UAE thought in advance that anyone in the red and a few seconds back at the final crest would probably lose substantial time on whatever group they were dropped from, so a short charge would be energy well spent. He says the next two days will be brutal and lots more guys will attack.

That makes sense.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/dan-martin-tour-france-stage-10-attack/

Dan Martin says serious attacks were basically suicidal because of the headwind. Also that his attack was planned - UAE thought in advance that anyone in the red and a few seconds back at the final crest would probably lose substantial time on whatever group they were dropped from, so a short charge would be energy well spent. He says the next two days will be brutal and lots more guys will attack.

If that was the plan it worked to perfection because some GT contenders dropped at the end.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

I don't buy the argument that it's conservative tactics that have failed to break the Sky train (in what - 6 tours now?). I think the issue is that everyone is basically on the limit holding on. It's not 'when should I attack?' or even 'can I attack.' It's more like 'I'm trying really hard not to get dropped.'

The very best hold on, and maybe spend whatever tiny little biscuit they have left at 350metres to go.

If this changes somehow (please Movistar!), excellent. But I have long given up hope.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vincenzo-nibali-it-was-impossible-to-attack/

I rest my case here, unfortunately.

 

[yaco]

S.yates was able to attack stages in the Giro off an aggressively ridden race by the peleton. AVerage time for stages was high, more aggression on the flats and Sky spent little time on the front, especially in the mountains. So in other words riders were usually on their limit once they reached the climbing part of a stage and therefore a strong rider could make a difference in

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

S.yates was able to attack stages in the Giro off an aggressively ridden race by the peleton. AVerage time for stages was high, more aggression on the flats and Sky spent little time on the front, especially in the mountains. So in other words riders were usually on their limit once they reached the climbing part of a stage and therefore a strong rider could make a difference in

I think it was the more the case that Froome was not in good form (until mid-3rd week). Ergo, Sky didn't ride high tempo on the front and Yates (+others could attack).

Note that when they did start riding on the front, they totally blew the race to smithereens, and high GC guys were losing big time/ending up in hospital.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

S.yates was able to attack stages in the Giro off an aggressively ridden race by the peleton. AVerage time for stages was high, more aggression on the flats and Sky spent little time on the front, especially in the mountains. So in other words riders were usually on their limit once they reached the climbing part of a stage and therefore a strong rider could make a difference in

I think it was the more the case that Froome was not in good form (until mid-3rd week). Ergo, Sky didn't ride high tempo on the front and Yates (+others could attack).

Note that when they did start riding on the front, they totally blew the race to smithereens, and high GC guys were losing big time/ending up in hospital.

+ Sky's team in Giro were mickeymouses compared to what they have here.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

movingtarget - more unnecessary dogpiling on Cobo. El Bisonte was a pretty good espoir in Spain, had some prospects, built up through 26 and 27, handicapped by the Saunier Duval withdrawal of course, and even with next to no support on Fuji-Servetto managed a Vuelta top 10 in 2009. There are more factors at play with him due to both his team association history and his psychological history too, as we all know.

Dekker_Tifosi: That 2007 Giro was kind of won by Nibali's teammate though - team roles play a lot of the part, after all on paper Nairo Quintana's 36th in the 2012 is far less impressive than him being the top climber for Movistar and dragging Valverde around through week 3.

Sky_Bot: Unzué is surprisingly bothered by the team classification. Lord knows why other than place of car in cavalcade.

yaco: in fairness though, the Tour has started giving out some pretty ordinary HCs. At 6km in length I'm not sure about this one as a 'legit' HC. It's certainly no Madeleine.

i was basing it on results not what might have been. Sure he had talent. No one disputes that.

 

[Frihed89]

Re: Re:

It's been this way for most all of the post-doping era.

What year would you say that this era began?

With Sky, with Wiggins. Armstrong's teams showed how to win the TDF with a strong group of support riders + "performance enhancing" substances. Then, relatively long and breathtaking attacks on steep climbs against a tired peloton were possible by Armstrong. My memory isn't as sharp as it used to be, but my recollection of the last 2 tours pretty much typifies the approach we saw yesterday...very conservative, very risk averse, a lot of waiting.

I do have a question: How easy will it be to catch Van Avermaet? He was in the break, yesterday, and while he withered a bit near the end, he held up pretty well. Does this mean that other teams will have to attack him more, if he goes out again, or will he just fade away under constant pressure from the front?

 

[del1962]

Van Avermaet is a non factor, he will naturallly fade today

 

[Cinemaniak]

Re:

Van Avermaet is a non factor, he will naturallly fade today

... or tomorrow, if he goes in the attack again.

 

[ahsoe]

Re: Re:

Van Avermaet is a non factor, he will naturallly fade today

... or tomorrow, if he goes in the attack again.

Really hope so. What he did yesterday was very impressive.

He has really been (and remain) a worthy wearer of the yellow jersey this year. He has got a new fan

But realistically, Froome will conquer the jersey today, such that he can win wearing yellow on Alpe d'Huez tomorrow.

 

[AnatoleNovak]

Re: Re:

It's been this way for most all of the post-doping era.

What year would you say that this era began?

With Sky, with Wiggins. Armstrong's teams showed how to win the TDF with a strong group of support riders + "performance enhancing" substances. Then, relatively long and breathtaking attacks on steep climbs against a tired peloton were possible by Armstrong. My memory isn't as sharp as it used to be, but my recollection of the last 2 tours pretty much typifies the approach we saw yesterday...very conservative, very risk averse, a lot of waiting.

I do have a question: How easy will it be to catch Van Avermaet? He was in the break, yesterday, and while he withered a bit near the end, he held up pretty well. Does this mean that other teams will have to attack him more, if he goes out again, or will he just fade away under constant pressure from the front?

Thanks for the answer. That's what I thought you meant. I won't give you my point of view here because it is not the place.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

It's been this way for most all of the post-doping era.

What year would you say that this era began?

With Sky, with Wiggins. Armstrong's teams showed how to win the TDF with a strong group of support riders + "performance enhancing" substances. Then, relatively long and breathtaking attacks on steep climbs against a tired peloton were possible by Armstrong. My memory isn't as sharp as it used to be, but my recollection of the last 2 tours pretty much typifies the approach we saw yesterday...very conservative, very risk averse, a lot of waiting.

I do have a question: How easy will it be to catch Van Avermaet? He was in the break, yesterday, and while he withered a bit near the end, he held up pretty well. Does this mean that other teams will have to attack him more, if he goes out again, or will he just fade away under constant pressure from the front?

Very easy.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Van Avermaet is a non factor, he will naturallly fade today

... or tomorrow, if he goes in the attack again.

Really hope so. What he did yesterday was very impressive.

He has really been (and remain) a worthy wearer of the yellow jersey this year. He has got a new fan

But realistically, Froome will conquer the jersey today, such that he can win wearing yellow on Alpe d'Huez tomorrow.

Really doubt Froome will be in yellow after today, the last climb is way too easy to make material differences between the top contenders. Differences for sure, but I don't see Thomas losing a minute to Froome today. Tomorrow is another story

 

[ahsoe]

Re: Re:

Van Avermaet is a non factor, he will naturallly fade today

... or tomorrow, if he goes in the attack again.

Really hope so. What he did yesterday was very impressive.

He has really been (and remain) a worthy wearer of the yellow jersey this year. He has got a new fan

But realistically, Froome will conquer the jersey today, such that he can win wearing yellow on Alpe d'Huez tomorrow.

Really doubt Froome will be in yellow after today, the last climb is way too easy to make material differences between the top contenders. Differences for sure, but I don't see Thomas losing a minute to Froome today. Tomorrow is another story

You are probably right. Just watched the profile again. 17,6 km at an average of 5,8% is in the easy end. On my first glimpse, I just noticed four mountains and deduced that this was for Froome

But it is an interesting situation with Thomas being in front if Froome. If we are to believe the different statements from Sky, Thomas is in very good shape this year. If Thomas is able to hang on long into the race, it will be interesting to see how Sky will handle this.