Le Tour de France 2013: who will win?

[movingtarget]

The lol is because you spent all of last year pretending to be a schleck fan to troll the contador crowd, but the second a contador fan praises Andy you lose all allegiance to your supposed favorite rider. True colours.

And write as many paragraphs as you want, but nibali and purito simply are not in the league of contador and schleck, and even their most passionate fans (apart.from.that deluded Canadian who thinks nibali will win 7 tours) would argue that they are.

A few years ago I would have agreed re Schleck and Contador as the best climbers but Schleck always loses what he gains in the mountains with the TT and if he ever improves in that discipline it may not be by much. This is the reason he will always find it hard to beat Contador who is a much better TT rider usually. I think the final TT in the Tour in 2010 was out of character for him but Schleck definitely made him work for the win that year. Rodriguez has shown moderate improvement in his TT riding. But I think Nibali and Rodriguez have definitely improved and it's hard to rate Wiggins and Froome against Schleck and Contador. Comparing them to each other based on what happened two years ago is pointless. Schleck's reputation has taken a battering and it won't be corrected until he gets an impressive result. I think he is being rated on reputation only at the moment. But for the good of the sport it would be great to see a battle in the Tour in 2013 with a motivated Schleck being one of the combatants. I want to see a contest like the last Vuelta not a walkover.

 

[airstream]

i can see own deleted posts airstream. . . regardless of being fans or not of contador, the rule is pretty simple: "don't take clinic talk into the road racing forum" rule which you have been violating repeatedly so stop playing the victim.

I never imposed such matter only mentioning them casually. Any sanction would be a banal revenge towards a fan with diametrically opposed cycling views.

 

[El Pistolero]

Are you using a thesaurus to replace any word you can come up with?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Haha +1 jojo I don't even understand what he is saying

 

[burning]

This page f*cked my head so badly that I need to go sleep

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I never imposed such matter only mentioning them casually. Any sanction would be a banal revenge towards a fan with diametrically opposed cycling views.

lol, you trying to use big words, I'm sure will get your points across better

tell me how much time do you spend, looking up these words in your dictionary?

 

[airstream]

lol, you trying to use big words, I'm sure will get your points across better

tell me how much time do you spend, looking up these words in your dictionary?

zero, I rarely use dictionary. Many words sound very similarly in English and my language.

 

[The Hitch]

A few years ago I would have agreed re Schleck and Contador as the best climbers but Schleck always loses what he gains in the mountains with the TT and if he ever improves in that discipline it may not be by much. This is the reason he will always find it hard to beat Contador who is a much better TT rider usually. I think the final TT in the Tour in 2010 was out of character for him but Schleck definitely made him work for the win that year. Rodriguez has shown moderate improvement in his TT riding. But I think Nibali and Rodriguez have definitely improved and it's hard to rate Wiggins and Froome against Schleck and Contador. Comparing them to each other based on what happened two years ago is pointless. Schleck's reputation has taken a battering and it won't be corrected until he gets an impressive result. I think he is being rated on reputation only at the moment. But for the good of the sport it would be great to see a battle in the Tour in 2013 with a motivated Schleck being one of the combatants. I want to see a contest like the last Vuelta not a walkover.

Sorry, why should we expect Andy Schleck to have fallen to the level of Nibali now?

2007 Giro 2nd.
2008 trour 8th but still way better than Nibali (who is 1 year older) and also 5th in olympics immediately after
2009 2nd in Tour. Way better than Nibali who he even beats in the tt (nibali being a supposed tt specialist)
2010 2nd in Tour Joint best climber in the race
2011 2nd in Tour Best climber in the race

2012 didnt race tour

So we have 5 years of Schleck consistently being 1 of the talents of the age and clearly way above Nibalis abilities, but because he got injured 1 year suddenly the roles are to be reversed?

This isnt some Oscar Perreiro performance when he 1 year got it together but was a decent rider the rest of the time. Schleck has year after year after year shown he is a world beater and i dont think its up to him to show us hes still got it. No its the other way around. The onus is on everyone else to show they have caught up. Until they do the logical path is to assume that Schleck as always >>>>> everyone but Contador.

 

[Jason_Mercier]

Wow, there's Juanjo Cobo I think the next TDF will suppose a change of direction in the GC battles view. My arguments, an Alberto Contador morally wounded, the vindicate of Andy Schleck, brave riders like Chris Froome and Alejandro Valverde, a solid and combative gc contender with a great team (for first time for him) like Nibali, new GC contenders which rides an offensive cycling like Thibaut Pinot and even Quintana (if Movistar take him to France) The route is a nonsense but the riders can do an epic race. And not only the TDF, the appeareance of new escarabajos probably will bring us nice days of cycling.

 

[airstream]

I can not understand why everyone draws a gulf between Schleck and Contador and the rest, if we talk about climbers too. It is positioned like sort of an unassailable fortress for 2 in which there is no entrance. It became an autotraining - limitless 'other league until the opposite to be proven'. I'm sure many things will be shaken after the 2013 Tour.

 

[El Pistolero]

Sorry, why should we expect Andy Schleck to have fallen to the level of Nibali now?

2007 Giro 2nd.
2008 trour 8th but still way better than Nibali (who is 1 year older) and also 5th in olympics immediately after
2009 2nd in Tour. Way better than Nibali who he even beats in the tt (nibali being a supposed tt specialist)
2010 2nd in Tour Joint best climber in the race
2011 2nd in Tour Best climber in the race

2012 didnt race tour

So we have 5 years of Schleck consistently being 1 of the talents of the age and clearly way above Nibalis abilities, but because he got injured 1 year suddenly the roles are to be reversed?

This isnt some Oscar Perreiro performance when he 1 year got it together but was a decent rider the rest of the time. Schleck has year after year after year shown he is a world beater and i dont think its up to him to show us hes still got it. No its the other way around. The onus is on everyone else to show they have caught up. Until they do the logical path is to assume that Schleck as always >>>>> everyone but Contador.

What a joke, he got dropped on a second category climb.

 

[Jason_Mercier]

New escarabajos like Anacona, Betancur, Atapuma or Chaves, José Rujano with a WT calendar, new GC riders with an amazing time trial like Talansky and Van Garderen... The days of mediocrity, the days of abstention, the days when people like Leipheimer, Klöden, Kreuziger, Scarponi or Gesink (guys who never dominated, who never make differences in any terrain) were favourites of grand tours are gone. 2013 will be another story.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

New escarabajos like Anacona, Betancur, Atapuma or Chaves, José Rujano with a WT calendar, new GC riders with an amazing time trial like Talansky and Van Garderen... The days of mediocrity, the days of abstention, the days when people like Leipheimer, Klöden, Kreuziger, Scarponi or Gesink (guys who never dominated, who never make differences in any terrain) were favourites of grand tours are gone. 2013 will be another story.

I agree wholeheartedly. we will have a multitude REAL climbers next year for instance instead of a few like purito and contador. not saying these will be great gc riders, but they will be an important factor, because with them mountainstages will be ridden differently

 

[Angliru]

I never imposed such matter only mentioning them casually. Any sanction would be a banal revenge towards a fan with diametrically opposed cycling views.

You ignored the rules and now you're being officially called out for it. Take your medicine, learn and move on. As was stated earlier, you're not the victim here unless you think the forum rules don't apply to you because you're some type of special case.

 

[Jason_Mercier]

I agree wholeheartedly. we will have a multitude REAL climbers next year for instance instead of a few like purito and contador. not saying these will be great gc riders, but they will be an important factor, because with them mountainstages will be ridden differently

Of course im not saying the colombians will fight face to face against Contador or Wiggins for win a GT. Not the next year, and who knows if never. But they will establish another cycling in the mountains. That's sure. The next year we will have the three top climbers of the moment, Contador, Andy and Froome, the best Ttriallist of the moment, Bradley Wiggins, the big eggs rider of the moment, Vincenzo Nibali, who is also the best downhill racer, and Valverde and Purito, probably two of the three best h.classics riders nowadays. And that's not all. As well we have two of the five more promising climbers of the decade, and two guys like Van Garderen and Talansky who have already demonstrated with 23 years that they will be very solid GC contenders soon, so soon. Two guys with a super timetriall with great climbing abilities. A hopeful scene.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Of course im not saying the colombians will fight face to face against Contador or Wiggins for win a GT. Not the next year, and who knows if never. But they will establish another cycling in the mountains. That's sure. The next year we will have the three top climbers of the moment, Contador, Andy and Froome, the best Ttriallist of the moment, Bradley Wiggins, the big eggs rider of the moment, Vincenzo Nibali, who is also the best downhill racer, and Valverde and Purito, probably two of the three best h.classics riders nowadays. And that's not all. As well we have two of the five more promising climbers of the decade, and two guys like Van Garderen and Talansky who have already demonstrated with 23 years that they will be very solid GC contenders soon, so soon. Two guys with a super timetriall with great climbing abilities. A hopeful scene.

I wasn't implying that. trust me I'm the biggest fan and follower of colombian cycling I can think of but indeed the mountains will be ridden in a whole different way. tour of utah 2011 was a good example of this. next year I expect coldeportes to ride in 1 gt at least 99%

 

[Angliru]

I can not understand why everyone draws a gulf between Schleck and Contador and the rest, if we talk about climbers too. It is positioned like sort of an unassailable fortress for 2 in which there is no entrance. It became an autotraining - limitless 'other league until the opposite to be proven'. I'm sure many things will be shaken after the 2013 Tour.

Until others prove worthy of ascending to their level (in the mountains) and that can only happen by them showing it on the road, we can only base these judgements on the riders' track record. It's not that complicated. Froome has yet to climb versus Andy and Alberto when he and they were at their best so for you and us it can only be speculation on what heights he (Froome) has risen in the hierarchy of the climbing elite. I'm not ready just yet to rate him with the present champions of the mountains, that being Alberto and Andy.

 

[Froome19]

Though we have no proof to claim that Froome is up there with Contador and Schleck it would not be all that ridiculous to assume so based on his previous perfomances.

 

[Jakob747]

Wow, there's Juanjo Cobo I think the next TDF will suppose a change of direction in the GC battles view. My arguments, an Alberto Contador morally wounded, the vindicate of Andy Schleck, brave riders like Chris Froome and Alejandro Valverde, a solid and combative gc contender with a great team (for first time for him) like Nibali, new GC contenders which rides an offensive cycling like Thibaut Pinot and even Quintana (if Movistar take him to France) The route is a nonsense but the riders can do an epic race. And not only the TDF, the appeareance of new escarabajos probably will bring us nice days of cycling.

T. Pinot will minimum do a Top-5 GC ride in TdF 2013! ...

 

[Jason_Mercier]

I wasn't implying that. trust me I'm the biggest fan and follower of colombian cycling I can think of but indeed the mountains will be ridden in a whole different way. tour of utah 2011 was a good example of this. next year I expect coldeportes to ride in 1 gt at least 99%

I know it. I was only clarifying my point of view. I hope this.

 

[Afrank]

I can not understand why everyone draws a gulf between Schleck and Contador and the rest, if we talk about climbers too. It is positioned like sort of an unassailable fortress for 2 in which there is no entrance. It became an autotraining - limitless 'other league until the opposite to be proven'. I'm sure many things will be shaken after the 2013 Tour.

2010 Tour we saw Schleck and Contador climb away from everybody with ease on the Tourmalet. That day they officially marked themselves out at the best climbers in the peloton. And I can't recall seeing another climbing performance like the one they put on that day in the last couple years. Sure the current crop of newer GC guys like Froome might be able to hang in there but until we see them in-form actually engaged in a climbing battle with the best climbers and hanging in there, we can't really call them one of the current best climbers in the world.

I agree wholeheartedly. we will have a multitude REAL climbers next year for instance instead of a few like purito and contador. not saying these will be great gc riders, but they will be an important factor, because with them mountainstages will be ridden differently

Amen, can't wait to see the Colombian climbers, among others, making everyone else suffer in the mountains .

 

[ILovecycling]

I wasn't implying that. trust me I'm the biggest fan and follower of colombian cycling I can think of but indeed the mountains will be ridden in a whole different way. tour of utah 2011 was a good example of this. next year I expect coldeportes to ride in 1 gt at least 99%

I hope Quintana will kick *** Wiggins,purito etc. in a mountain finish

5 months to Giro,but only 2 month to San luis

 

[ILovecycling]

I can not understand why everyone draws a gulf between Schleck and Contador and the rest, if we talk about climbers too. It is positioned like sort of an unassailable fortress for 2 in which there is no entrance. It became an autotraining - limitless 'other league until the opposite to be proven'. I'm sure many things will be shaken after the 2013 Tour.

Few km before summit of Tourmalet Contador and Schleck have 1'40 to the group behind them.Did you see this kind of performace in 2011 or 2012 from anyone?I dont think so,its pretty obvious that there is 'unassainble fortress'...but the fortress has little entrance probably for people like Froome,maybe he will be in the 'fortress' after Tour 2013,maybe not

 

[airstream]

2010 Tour we saw Schleck and Contador climb away from everybody with ease on the Tourmalet. That day they officially marked themselves out at the best climbers in the peloton. And I can't recall seeing another climbing performance like the one they put on that day in the last couple years. Sure the current crop of newer GC guys like Froome might be able to hang in there but until we see them in-form actually engaged in a climbing battle with the best climbers and hanging in there, we can't really call them one of the current best climbers in the world.

True, but it was a separate day. An excellent day for Schleck and Contador. Mediocre day for Menchov who wavered all the way up to the top and Sanchez who crashed. The stage showed tendency but not its value. It's naive to assume that Contador and Schleck could have done something similar 2-3 times in the race even jointly, if they had needed this. So, that's a distance, but not a gulf.

To me Froome's climbing level in comparison to these 2 is unknown, to put it mildly. 2.5 years is too much to trust that relation of forces entirely.

 

[airstream]

Few km before summit of Tourmalet Contador and Schleck have 1'40 to the group behind them.Did you see this kind of performace in 2011 or 2012 from anyone?I dont think so,its pretty obvious that there is 'unassainble fortress'...but the fortress has little entrance probably for people like Froome,maybe he will be in the 'fortress' after Tour 2013,maybe not

You offer to consider that stage the mirror of nowadays climbing hierarchy? IMO it's quite doubtful.