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BigMac said:1 - No. You have to obey. This is not the Banana Republic. You do what the organisers tell you to do, period. Absolutely no point in following your rival when the race is supposedely neutralised.
2 - The organisers made a joke out of themselves to start with. Time penalties on Quintana and the rest that went it him is the only descent way of try and put this whole patethic situation back on track.
Netserk said:Here's what Pirazza has to say to Lefevere:
You say 7 curves. The race was 'neutralized' for the first 6. After this, it was considered safe enough and good to go. If you are in a formula 1 race behind the safety car until curve 6, better make sure you are almost touching the one in front for when the race restarts, and don't go drink a coffee near the top! A lot of teams seem to have 'believed' / 'hoped' / 'whatever miraculous other force in the mix' / .. that the stage would be neutralized forever? Did any of them asked how long it was neutralized? And above all: what exactly can be seen by an attack? Touching your brakes less? Descending times on the Stelvio were not exactly stellar, even by Quintana. A guy I know has the best time on Strava, approx. the same time as Quintana (if compared to Kelderman who is on Strava and was in the big group).BigMac said:Quintana sayd HE DID NOT SEE the motorbike with the flag during the descent, when there are multiple photos of him behind a moto with a comissaire holding said flag. There was no way he did not see the bike while it was in front of his group for at least the first 7 bends of the descent. He shot himself in the foot right there. Should have chosen a better excuse. Now that it is clear there was a neutralisation, I can only see fit that Quintana and the rest get the time they got on the descent taken.
Why on earth should Uran not follow Quintana? Did he think Quintana would be in a bar in the valley waiting for them after the neutralization was done? Why on earth would he just 'believe' that he can get off the bike, put on a raincoat, see a lot of left-behind riders climb over the Stelvio and think those will be hold back by the commissaires because Uran is taking it easy?BigMac said:Lefevere - as a worried DS with integrity - has all the reason in the world to protest. And what is this rubbish saying Urán should not have let Quintana get away? That he totally deserved what he got because he lacked a winner instinct ? The stage was supposedely neutralised, why on earth should he follow? All those shoulds, all those hypothetical situations... Like a poster eloquentely said in the race thread, if you cannot trust the race organisers, then it becomes total anarchy.
Volderke said:You say 7 curves. The race was 'neutralized' for the first 6. After this, it was considered safe enough and good to go. If you are in a formula 1 race behind the safety car until curve 6, better make sure you are almost touching the one in front for when the race restarts, and don't go drink a coffee near the top!
"we should assume riders didn't know for how long..."SafeBet said:Again.
The 6 hairpins thing was not in the original recording. Unless other messages that I'm not aware of were relased, we should assume riders didn't know for how long the red flagged motos would be there.
I'd even go as far as say that the message implied the motos would be there for the whole length of the descent, for my understanding of italian (which is perfect btw).
Volderke said:"we should assume riders didn't know for how long..."
When I don't know how long it will take my girlfriend to be ready to go out, even if I know it will take half an hour, I make sure I'm stand-by and ready
neineinei said:That's what you get for attacking Unzués man when he has a flat in the Tour. Days, weeks and months goes by, and everything is calm. Then, when you think you are safe, in the snow on Stelvio, the scorpion says hello.
check the rules first and come back later.damian13ster said:Good for you! How is that relevant to the situation in which couple of riders break the rules by passing a motorcycle?
damian13ster said:So if the race radio which stated not to pass the motocycles is not an official way of communication between RCS, jury or other decision making bodies then what is?
Are riders supposed to ignore EVERYTHING that is said through the radio because after the race UCI jury might say it had no basis?
BigMac said:1 - No. You have to obey. This is not the Banana Republic. You do what the organisers tell you to do, period. Absolutely no point in following your rival when the race is supposedely neutralised.
2 - The organisers made a joke out of themselves to start with. Time penalties on Quintana and the rest that went it him is the only descent way of try and put this whole patethic situation back on track.
Jagartrott said:You cannot know that. Quintana now gained 6 seconds on Hesjedahl. Would he have gained 2 minutes on Aru and the rest? He failed to get rid of all (or even any) of the main contenders on mountains in any stage of this Giro.
movingtarget said:http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...c-descent-in-giro-ditalia-20140530-zrshp.html
It must have been bad to scare someone like Evans with all of his experience and lack of fear going downhill.
Libertine Seguros said:So to you, what would be satisfactory? Does Quintana need to win by over 2 minutes today to legitimize his win to you? If they applied an arbitrary penalty and gave the jersey back to Urán, would that not strike you as just as much a gift from the organizers due to their awful handling of the situation as the gains Quintana made on the Stelvio descent?
Ultimately, if Quintana, Hesjedal, Rolland and their companions in the group can be shown to have deliberately ignored safety instructions or clear communications from the race directors, they can be thrown out of the race and the problem can be solved. However, we also know that communications from the race directors were anything BUT clear, and we also don't know how the instructions - if any were provided at all - were communicated from the teams to the riders. And if they haven't deliberately ignored safety instructions or clear communications, then they would be within their rights to complain about their gains being nullified or removed because a lot of the others interpreted the instructions differently and thought they had carte blanche to stop for coffee.
The organizers have created a situation whereby nobody's happy and nobody can be happy with the outcome. If he isn't penalized, Quintana has to win by a sizable amount to prove he could have won without it, and if he is Urán needs to win by a sizable amount so that he would have won without the penalty too, because people are not in agreement over whether a penalty should or should not be applied.