Leg strength

[ImmaculateKadence]

Can we do this by running or by playing football because there is no Gym exists near to my home and i want to be a rider so give me the suggestion.

Are there hills near you? I've been told running uphill simulates the motion of pedaling and is a good way to cross train. I don't really train this way, so I can't really support nor deny, just what I've been told from a coach. I'm not much of a runner; years of basketball have left me with knees and ankles that don't like pounding pavement.

 

[ethnik]

Yet Chris Boardman didn't. He still holds the pursuit and world hour record (the pursuit position one) marks.

Anecdotes are not evidence.

neither is genetic good fortune, or the fact that he established both on bicycles of dubious legality.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

neither is genetic good fortune, or the fact that he established both on bicycles of dubious legality.

So Ulmer didn't have the genetics and it was gym work that did the trick? I don't think so.

I think you missed my point - i.e. anecdotes don't help this debate.

Boardman's bikes were UCI legal when he set the records. What was dubious about that? The rules have since changed. That's hardly Chris's fault.

If you are going to take that line of thought - then Merckx's hour record bike would not pass UCI's current rules either.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

The best way to increase speed and power on a bike is to do interval training and to train at lactate threshold.

That's quite a good way to improve power output.

With that being said, incorporating a small weight lifting regimen will increase power, but you have to do the right workouts.

What weights work (other than riding your bike) ends up inducing adaptations that result in increasing sustainable aerobic power?

Most power comes from your core

Most power comes from your legs.

Remember, use weight training to supplement bike training not to replace it.

I prefer to schedule more recovery so on the bike training can be more effective.

I don't know why so many cyclists are opposed to weight lifting. It has plenty of bike related benefit...if done properly.

I don't think anyone is against lifting weights. It's claims that weightlifting will improve sustainable aerobic power that's the problem.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

I am also not saying it will make you faster over a 6 hr ride except maybe a couple of seconds in the final sprint. But I firmily believe it will help you get there with more reserves. If you can use less energy for Quick bursts for attacks and or sprints and we all know during races there can be quit a few of those in some races, you will able to do what is necessary easiliar without exhausting yourself and you will be stronger at the end.

Actually it's superior aerobic power that helps you recover from quick (anaerobic) bursts and get to the end of a race with greater reserves. It's what you could call "repeatability", which is a function of aerobic abilities.

 

[Green Tea]

I don't think anyone is against lifting weights. It's claims that weightlifting will improve sustainable aerobic power that's the problem.

But lets face it. Your no Cancellara & Cancellara lifts. Lance Armstrong lifts.

Also power starts at the core. All human movement is initiated at the core of the body. Increasing strength here can increase power. Big power.

 

[Green Tea]

Oh you wanted more? Well probably lots and lots of aerobic work, and quite a decent amount of interval work in the aerobic range, just a guess. Maybe some anaerobic work too here and there.

Tape, this isn't the 80's.

Jeez.

If Cancellara rides his bike 6 hours a day, I ride mine 10 hours per day. Who wins? me?.

Hell no!.

 

[PortableDave]

Tape, this isn't the 80's.

Jeez.

If Cancellara rides his bike 6 hours a day, I ride mine 10 hours per day. Who wins? me?.

Hell no!.

But if you lift weights then you win?

 

[Tapeworm]

Tape, this isn't the 80's.

Jeez.

If Cancellara rides his bike 6 hours a day, I ride mine 10 hours per day. Who wins? me?.

Hell no!.

Well I bet I could outlift Fabian by quite a bit, and yet I would have half his threshold power... How could that be???

Genetics, perhaps?

What kind if training do you think he would do? Sprint intervals and LSD? Oh and some heavy lifting of course.

Or perhaps he does training at the required levels to improve his lactate thresholds, by improving mitocondrial levels and the bodies ability to process metabolites etc etc.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

But lets face it. Your no Cancellara & Cancellara lifts. Lance Armstrong lifts.

Also power starts at the core. All human movement is initiated at the core of the body. Increasing strength here can increase power. Big power.

Well you're sure no Einstein.

 

[STODRR]

Actually it's superior aerobic power that helps you recover from quick (anaerobic) bursts and get to the end of a race with greater reserves. It's what you could call "repeatability", which is a function of aerobic abilities.

True but if you have two individuals with the same aerobic power the person with the greater anaerobic power who can delay the onset of fatigue by not going as deep into an anaerobic hole in that burst, has less to recover from and hence will have more reserves in the end.

The question is whether lifiting will increase the anaerobic power and be useful? I believe so.

 

[Green Tea]

True but if you have two individuals with the same aerobic power the person with the greater anaerobic power who can delay the onset of fatigue by not going as deep into an anaerobic hole in that burst, has less to recover from and hence will have more reserves in the end.

The question is whether lifiting will increase the anaerobic power and be useful? I believe so.

Great post.

Somebody that knows what hes talking about unlike tapeworm stook somewhere in the middle ages.

 

[Kennf1]

The question is whether lifiting will increase the anaerobic power and be useful? I believe so.

Why would it work better than doing anerobic intervals on the bike?

 

[STODRR]

Why would it work better than doing anerobic intervals on the bike?

Like I said earlier there is no proof it will. But I don't believe that bicyclists are some freaks of nature and are the only athletes lifting does not help. When I looked back at my past seasons power outputs I noticed a trend. I would normally start out with a really good 5 sec - 1 min power but a low 60 min power (comparisons made with watt/kg). Which made sense, I lifted all winter and my legs were strong but not really aerobicaly fit. I would then stop lifting and work mostly on the bike. I found my 60 min would go up and surpass the year before but my 5 sec - 1 min would slowly go down. Now I could have just been making mistakes and not working on the anaerobic enough but I found one year that just lifting 1-2days a week to maintain, my 5 sec - 1 min did not decrease and even went up but just barely and the 60 min went up as before.

I believe I can spend a much shorter time in the gym working on my anaerobic power and spend most of my time on the bike working on my aerobic power during the season. I feel I only have to do enough anaerobic work on the bike to (for the lack of a better word) train the muscle to use that power in efficient way while biking. I also use the bike to get my body used to recovering from a hard anaerobic burst something that can not be done in the gym. In other words I use the gym to gain the strength (mostly in the winter, maintain in season and or work on power) and the bike (you can gain strength there also just not as fast in my opinion) to teach my body how to use it.

Like I said this is what works for me. I would never recommend starting this during your main part of the season. I am of the opinion that if I can work on it all winter in my down time I can come out of my build stage later alot stronger and start my aerobic and anaerobic interval work on the bike at a higher level. But I am not an elite racer and never will be. So in that vein find what works for you, if you do not believe it will work it won't. It took me 5 years to find what I believe works for me.

Alex has a different opinion, and has some studies that he finds more credible them me. Whoever you believe it does not matter. There is no magic bullet, it will take years of loggin all your workouts to figure out what works for you and those years, is in my opinion why no good study has been accomplished yet to date.

 

[Kennf1]

Like I said earlier there is no proof it will. But I don't believe that bicyclists are some freaks of nature and are the only athletes lifting does not help. When I looked back at my past seasons power outputs I noticed a trend. I would normally start out with a really good 5 sec - 1 min power but a low 60 min power (comparisons made with watt/kg). Which made sense, I lifted all winter and my legs were strong but not really aerobicaly fit. I would then stop lifting and work mostly on the bike. I found my 60 min would go up and surpass the year before but my 5 sec - 1 min would slowly go down.

I have no doubt the lifting benefitted your 5 sec. power, which is why every track sprinter does a lot of weight work. It also makes sense that your 5 sec. power would go down doing a steady diet of aerobic work. But did you try incorporating a sprint workout once a week? Something like 10 all-out efforts for 10-20 seconds.

Of course, the term "anaerobic" as I used it is probably a misnomer. I'm usually on the verge of hyperventillating and puking after a nasty sprint workout-- so there is a huge oxygen demand (with the exception of a super short effort, like 5 seconds). But I would never get that way doing a leg workout in a weight room.

 

[Tapeworm]

Great post.

Somebody that knows what hes talking about unlike tapeworm stook somewhere in the middle ages.

Sorry Troll. Must get tiring to keeping coming up with a new name eh? I forget that you have no grasp of human physiology or modern training techniques.

 

[Green Tea]

Like I said, Cancellara lifts as does Lance Armstrong. It wouldn't suprise me if Cadel & Vino lift also looking at there differing "bulky" body types over leaner, weaker looking riders.

You can't recruit motor units, you also can't develop the CNS that fires them motor units & muscle fibers from doing anaerobic intervals on the bike.

I would never get that way doing a leg workout in a weight room.

Increase the intensity & food intake.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Is it unfashionable to mention Joe Friel here? As part of early season training, heavy lifting is advised (like 3-6 rep max weight) along with other training. This far into the season, I don't think he recommends any lifting.

 

[STODRR]

I have no doubt the lifting benefitted your 5 sec. power, which is why every track sprinter does a lot of weight work. It also makes sense that your 5 sec. power would go down doing a steady diet of aerobic work. But did you try incorporating a sprint workout once a week? Something like 10 all-out efforts for 10-20 seconds.

Of course, the term "anaerobic" as I used it is probably a misnomer. I'm usually on the verge of hyperventillating and puking after a nasty sprint workout-- so there is a huge oxygen demand (with the exception of a super short effort, like 5 seconds). But I would never get that way doing a leg workout in a weight room.

It didn't just benefit my 5 sec it did it up to at least my 1 min that I can tell. And yes I did sprint workouts. But now with 3 sets of 3-5 (3-5 minutes rest between sets) to maintain once or twice a week, following my sprint workout or interval workout, I did not regress. However sprint workouts are more about building power not necessarily strength. Power is leg speed plus strength. You can have very fast legs and moderate power if your strength is low. However if you start from a position of strength and gain the leg speed (sprint training) your power goes up higher (my theory, right or wrong). There is no way to get the same muscle stimulation from a sprint as doing squats or leg presses hence the conterversy. It has been said that you can build bike strength by doing big gears with a low cadence and it might work good, I don't know. I have found it is hard for me to do so I can not say it does not work.

Here is a site that is testing a new power meter http://www.metrigear.com/blog/ it shows where your power is being used (everybody is different depending on their efficientcy). You will see in his up hill hammer he is procucing about 1000 newtons of force, equivalent to about 225 lbs of force albeit at very short intervals during the stroke by a single leg. so i don't really perscribe to the notion that the legs don't really do any heavy pushing.

I will say Alex is more knowledgeble then me on this and I do not have anything to prove him wrong, I just feel he is on this so take that for what it is worth.


And I have pucked many times in a squat or leg press workout. You are not working hard enough if you haven't got close while working legs. However like I said earlier that should never be done in season. It does not allow time for recovery, workouts like that take at least 3 days to recover.

 

[Green Tea]

I know for a fact increasing strength, increases power on the bike, especially on the flats. Can't see Alex or Kenn being very knowledgeable if they don't know this fact OR is it just a simple matter of, they have never lifted weights in there life before?. Because they read a study which told them it don't work, so they didn't bother to justify it?. The latter being highly probable.

Train how you want too train, a stronger rider will usually beat a weaker one.

 

[Kennf1]

I know for a fact increasing strength, increases power on the bike, especially on the flats. Can't see Alex or Kenn being very knowledgeable if they don't know this fact OR is it just a simple matter of, they have never lifted weights in there life before?. Because they read a study which told them it don't work, so they didn't bother to justify it?. The latter being highly probable.

Train how you want too train, a stronger rider will usually beat a weaker one.

Which is why the bulky sprinters always win the time trials, right?
When I say "power", I'm talking about watts. What are you talking about?

Of course, if you know it for a fact, then why even discuss it? Wait, you're (notice I didn't say "your") the guy who thinks epo can't have an impact on power because it didn't work for you.

 

[Green Tea]

Which is why the bulky sprinters always win the time trials, right?
When I say "power", I'm talking about watts. What are you talking about?

Of course, if you know it for a fact, then why even discuss it? Wait, you're (notice I didn't say "your") the guy who thinks epo can't have an impact on power because it didn't work for you.

Did you see the time trial video I posted of Cancellara Vs Wiggins?. (Cancellara wiping the floor?/Cancellara the much heavier rider at 80 kg (180 lb; 13 st) 6'1 inches. Wiggins with the superior VO2.

Yeah your right, the "bulkier" riders (Cancellara do win the time trials).

Even the most dedicated of bookworms like Kenn, still know very little. Can we say Troll?

Tapeworm is one. Ain't that right Tapey?.

 

[Tapeworm]

Did you see the time trial video I posted of Cancellara Vs Wiggins?. (Cancellara wiping the floor?/Cancellara the much heavier rider at 80 kg (180 lb; 13 st) 6'1 inches. Wiggins with the superior VO2.

Yeah your right, the "bulkier" riders (Cancellara do win the time trials).

Even the most dedicated of bookworms like Kenn, still know very little. Can we say Troll?

Tapeworm is one. Ain't that right Tapey?.

The reason why studies are so great is that IF weights clearly aided aerobic performance then it would clearly demonstratable. As it stands, it has not been.

And your amazing conclusion on rider size and power output... well who won the Giro prologue... Must have been a huge muscular rider being such a short distance. Cancellara probably would have won if he was there, but then even Contador has beaten him, so size does not count.

If you could explain a credible theory as to how fast twitch muscle has any bearing on lactate threshold I'd really like to hear it.

 

[Kennf1]

Did you see the time trial video I posted of Cancellara Vs Wiggins?. (Cancellara wiping the floor?/Cancellara the much heavier rider at 80 kg (180 lb; 13 st) 6'1 inches. Wiggins with the superior VO2.

Yeah your right, the "bulkier" riders (Cancellara do win the time trials).

Even the most dedicated of bookworms like Kenn, still know very little. Can we say Troll?

Tapeworm is one. Ain't that right Tapey?.

Dedicated bookworm? Wow, I feel so ... cerebral.
Cancellara ain't a sprinter. He's a taller-than-average time trial specialist with a huge aerobic engine. He's also one of the better technical riders there is as far as picking lines and cornering. He's probably in the top 3 in terms of total watts he can put out for 5-20 minutes.

But I have changed my mind. Based on your experience alone, I have decided to toss aside all of the studies by those bookish PhDs and certified coaches out there. Squats and creatine are all that is needed to raise your FTP. Maybe deadlifts too.

 

[Green Tea]

Dedicated bookworm? Wow, I feel so ... cerebral.
Cancellara ain't a sprinter. He's a taller-than-average time trial specialist with a huge aerobic engine. He's also one of the better technical riders there is as far as picking lines and cornering. He's probably in the top 3 in terms of total watts he can put out for 5-20 minutes.

But I have changed my mind. Based on your experience alone, I have decided to toss aside all of the studies by those bookish PhDs and certified coaches out there. Squats and creatine are all that is needed to raise your FTP. Maybe deadlifts too.

You say Cancellara has a huge aerobic engine. Do you also realize guys who rode the Paris-Roubaix who placed outside the Top 50 had higher aerobic engines (VO2) than Cancellara?.

So what does this tell you?. Your telling me "He's probably in the top 3 in terms of total watts he can put out for 5-20 minutes" Right. How does he go about achieving that?. Is it his aerobic engine?. No! it can't be. Its far less than other riders hes wiping the floor with.

How does he train them watts?. Whats he doing. Is he a bigger animal when it comes to anaerobic sprint intervals?. Doubt it.

He must be doing something off the bike, something secret. And no, it doesn't relate to the clinic.