LeMond I

[Zweistein]

Lemond enthusiasts are feeling a tad uncomfortable also methinks.

I get the feeling most Lemond fans have their fingers in their ears, are singing loudly to themselves and are hoping this thread goes away very quickly.

Pffffff. There is so much stuff on Lemond that Armstrong offered to pay one of Lemond's former teamates $300,000 to lie and say that Lemond used EPO. His former teamate turned the offer down.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/zone-lance-armstrong-bully-downfall-article-1.1188512

You are really grasping at strings when someone desperately offers $300,000 to someone to just make stuff up.

 

[red_flanders]

Lemond enthusiasts are feeling a tad uncomfortable also methinks.

I get the feeling most Lemond fans have their fingers in their ears, are singing loudly to themselves and are hoping this thread goes away very quickly.

This thread has been going on for a year, with hundreds of posts. Not a shred of evidence against LeMond after all that and the dozens of previous threads. Not after 30 years.

LeMond has enthusiasts because of what he did and continues to do for the sport. My ears are wide open. Are yours?

 

[Hugh Januss]

From what i know, the one exception is Lemond. While he himself probably didnot dope, the one little thing that i have against Lemond is that he has not grassed on anyone else who doped (probably cannot because of libel). He is more against dodgy doctors than poor cyclists.

You hold it against LeMond that he can focus on the real problem?

 

[D-Queued]

Lemond enthusiasts are feeling a tad uncomfortable also methinks.

I get the feeling most Lemond fans have their fingers in their ears, are singing loudly to themselves and are hoping this thread goes away very quickly.

The Bard said it best: Much ado about nothing.

Pages and pages of nothing.

So much energy spent on nothing that there must be an agenda. Not worth even asking what the agenda is, of course, as the pattern and purpose have long been established.

Dave.

 

[horsinabout]

?

So much digging and after 30 years nothing has been found.

I have no idea about who has been digging for 30 years.

Why not turn your "incredible detective" skills to any number of other coaches, doctors, riders, and UCI leaders?

I do in the appropriate threads. This is the Lemond thread. "incredible detective" skills is a sarcasm?

Or are you putting your "incredible detective" skills to use for reasons that have nothing to do with trying to clean up the sport?

I don't understand your either/or limited choice, plus it's in the negative. Yes I should say that this is associated with a more honest and cleaner sport. However, I find this cause demoralising especially involving your next question that I maybe running a smear campaign, which I caution is a false accusation.

Maybe, a smear campaign?

Ok picture if you will that I am on a video. I am now looking you straight in the eye. The answer to your question is NO.

 

[horsinabout]

It's 2r

And the interview with LeMond (done by Kimmage) is truly great.

Can you post it Netserk? Would like to read it whilst i'm on a roll

 

[Netserk]

It's against forum rules to post an entire article/interview. Even if it was allowed, I wouldn't be able to post it, since I cannot acces to it from my computer (it is only avaible from a tablet).

 

[Zweistein]

Ok picture if you will that I am on a video. I am now looking you straight in the eye. The answer to your question is NO.

I see what you did there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LSSMFp_dCwc#t=340s

 

[horsinabout]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYsp4NKUo_M&list=HL1365696568

The issue has a long history, and Greg has been up front the whole time, for over a decade now. One of the points that has been made here, and it has been consistently true throughout Greg's history, is that he has always been a little uncomfortable when speaking in public. One of my points about the television interview is that he appeared uncomfortable throughout. I know the body language "reading" techniques you are looking at, but they are put off when you have the same things going on consistently, throughout an interview session. It seems Greg has become more comfortable over the years with one-on-one interviews. Sometimes in those he can be quite brilliant. There is a new online mag on itunes (r2, I think its called) with a Lemond interview that is also quite open - perhaps embarrassingly so!

I think attributing the discomfort that Greg appears to have, in that tv interview you linked, to a guilty conscience, is REALLY stretching to find something. He is uncomfortable throughout, and it could be due to any number of reasons.

I will give you full credit here Hero2 for your persistence. And do you know what – I have changed my mind. It may not be quite what you want, but I have revisited the video and really listened to what Greg was saying and tried to understand what I was perceiving. When I said in my initial comment that my lie detector was bleeping, this is how I initially perceived what I was watching. I now don't believe that the word lie is accurate in context for the follow reasons:

I quote Lemond from the video, “I would rather not win a race than be positive”
It (doping) is like taking a short cut to the finish line – you really win the race” (this is where he is particularly nervous in my view) and at this point goes into deaths in the sport in that era of his team mate – Just after he retired from racing (very important point here as he is linking the two). He then says “in a way we're all like kids, we want parents to put the limits on us and we want to bounce up to those limits like kids want to. But some times we need to put the brakes on everybody".

My conclusion is that here Lemond is telling us and linking what he and the peloton at the time did, and what went on when he was racing and why he retired. From my view point, what GL is doing is a codified response, possibly, but for reasons unknown, the only response he can give due to his credibility and other issues. This is not the same as telling lies. So do I think he is hiding something, which you thought was my assumption? No, because he's telling us what he did, as much as he is able or prepared to do.

 

[horsinabout]

I see what you did there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LSSMFp_dCwc#t=340s

hahaha..wrong lead yet again. My hair isn''t that short, it's curly in a bob. And I don't see much eye contact going on here.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Lemond enthusiasts are feeling a tad uncomfortable also methinks.

I get the feeling most Lemond fans have their fingers in their ears, are singing loudly to themselves and are hoping this thread goes away very quickly.

I think you're right.

I am pretty sure the LeMond enthusiasts are getting nervous with Horsinabouts anlysis of YouTube videos, I am confident they will break the story soon - I also think someone should check LeMonds starsign and check his horoscope, I am sure there is something in there too.

 

[86TDFWinner]

I think you're right.

I am pretty sure the LeMond enthusiasts are getting nervous with Horsinabouts anlysis of YouTube videos, I am confident they will break the story soon - I also think someone should check LeMonds starsign and check his horoscope, I am sure there is something in there too.

Lol, there just has to be something there to make their stories plausible/believeable. You know when we ask them to provide any sort of evidence, they'll disappear.

 

[Wallace]

I will give you full credit here Hero2 for your persistence. And do you know what – I have changed my mind. It may not be quite what you want, but I have revisited the video and really listened to what Greg was saying and tried to understand what I was perceiving. When I said in my initial comment that my lie detector was bleeping, this is how I initially perceived what I was watching. I now don't believe that the word lie is accurate in context for the follow reasons:

I quote Lemond from the video, “I would rather not win a race than be positive”
It (doping) is like taking a short cut to the finish line – you really win the race” (this is where he is particularly nervous in my view) and at this point goes into deaths in the sport in that era of his team mate – Just after he retired from racing (very important point here as he is linking the two). He then says “in a way we're all like kids, we want parents to put the limits on us and we want to bounce up to those limits like kids want to. But some times we need to put the brakes on everybody".

My conclusion is that here Lemond is telling us and linking what he and the peloton at the time did, and what went on when he was racing and why he retired. From my view point, what GL is doing is a codified response, possibly, but for reasons unknown, the only response he can give due to his credibility and other issues. This is not the same as telling lies. So do I think he is hiding something, which you thought was my assumption? No, because he's telling us what he did, as much as he is able or prepared to do.

Right. And all those riders who said they were totally "tranquil" about their tests and smiled and didn't blink an eye--could you tell they were lying because their pupils contracted and the freckles on their ears turned a bit darker? You seem to be infinitely better at reading the hidden recesses of the human psyche than any machine or psychologist. Perhaps you should offer your services to the legal system? Why bother with trials when someone like you can read the innermost thoughts of complete strangers through their body language? I don't see why you're wasting your time on forums when with your abilities you could be out there serving the cause of justice and freeing the innocent.

 

[hiero2]

It's against forum rules to post an entire article/interview. Even if it was allowed, I wouldn't be able to post it, since I cannot acces to it from my computer (it is only avaible from a tablet).

Actually - it is available on iTunes - if you have iTunes on anything, you can get it. Go to http://2rmag.com/ - the download link takes you to an iTunes download page.

My wife has iTunes - but I refuse to use them on moral grounds - I think they are greedy <mumble, mumble>. So until I can figure that out, I'm stuck with reading the excerpt on their web page - which is revealing, perhaps embarrassing, and perhaps funny, depending on your humor, but is absolutely in the Lemond character.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Not sure what your looking for. Just want a bit of debate my friend.

You're not getting away with the outrageous claim that Lemond took recreational drugs with either Fignonn or anyone else.

If you don't have anything constructive to add, stay off the thread.

Consider yourself warned.

-Berzin

Bravo! Even if it is true, posting about it is meant only to smear Lemond, and is generally undertaken by people still b*tt hurt because their hero was a doping freak and they were too stupid to see what a blind man could.

Armstrong paid people to try to tarnish Lemond with doping allegations, and they never came up with a thing. I would suggest to all of them to look inward and see where their f*^kwittery has led them. They are wallowing in the fecal material of their never great hero. It's sad really this pursuit of others when your life is a cesspool of stupidity.

On second thought, let them post away. I love the superior feeling I get when I read their posts. I am clearly more intelligent and better looking than are they. Fire away you fanboys of old!

 

[Zweistein]

I will give you full credit here Hero2 for your persistence. And do you know what – I have changed my mind. It may not be quite what you want, but I have revisited the video and really listened to what Greg was saying and tried to understand what I was perceiving. When I said in my initial comment that my lie detector was bleeping, this is how I initially perceived what I was watching. I now don't believe that the word lie is accurate in context for the follow reasons:

I quote Lemond from the video, “I would rather not win a race than be positive”
It (doping) is like taking a short cut to the finish line – you really win the race” (this is where he is particularly nervous in my view) and at this point goes into deaths in the sport in that era of his team mate – Just after he retired from racing (very important point here as he is linking the two). He then says “in a way we're all like kids, we want parents to put the limits on us and we want to bounce up to those limits like kids want to. But some times we need to put the brakes on everybody".

My conclusion is that here Lemond is telling us and linking what he and the peloton at the time did, and what went on when he was racing and why he retired. From my view point, what GL is doing is a codified response, possibly, but for reasons unknown, the only response he can give due to his credibility and other issues. This is not the same as telling lies. So do I think he is hiding something, which you thought was my assumption? No, because he's telling us what he did, as much as he is able or prepared to do.

If it wasn't for you rascal kids I would have gotten away with it.

Good detective work!!! HAVE A SCOOBY SNACK ON ME!

 

[northstar]

There are some interesting links in this thread. I have listed the Lemond related articles in one post for people who may have missed them. Thanks to all the posters who contributed the original links.

Sports Illustrated article, ‘Climbing Clear Up To The Heights’, Sept. 1984 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1122493/1/index.htm

LA Times article, ‘Drug Use Said To Concern Lemond’ July 1989 http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-25/sports/sp-95_1_greg-lemond

BikeRaceInfo article, ‘Cycling’s Talented Revolutionary’ Feb. 1997 http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html

B. Malessa/Bicyclist interview with Lemond, ‘Once Was King’ 1998 http://www.roble.net/marquis/coaching/lemond98.html

NY Times article, ‘Lemond Considers Drug Issue a Wake-Up Call’ July 1998 http://www.nytimes.com/1998/07/30/sports/30iht-lemond.t.html

Claire D. blog/interview with Lemond ‘Better to Get a Flat Than To Get Shot’ July 2007 http://admirelemond.blogspot.ca/2007/07/lexpress-interview-from-july-12th-2007.html

M. Fanelli blog ‘Still A Fan, Greg’ Sept. 2008 http://marcofanelli.blogspot.ca/2008/09/still-fan-greg.html

Bike Radar, Lemond’s account of ‘The Greatest Tour of All’ July 2009 http://www.bikeradar.com/blog/article/the-greatest-tour-of-all-by-greg-lemond-22419/

Kathy Lemond blog, ‘Doping and the Story of Those We Love’ 2010 http://greglemond.com/blog/doping-and-those-we-love/

Cycling News, Lemond blog ‘The Art of Peaking for the Tour’ July 2010 http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/greg-lemond/the-art-of-peaking-for-the-tour-de-france-1

Bike Radar, excerpt ‘A Tribute to Great Cycling Designers’ Oct. 2012 http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/bike-a-tribute-to-the-worlds-greatest-cycling-designers--35445/

NY Times article ‘Victims of Armstrong Feel Vindication’ Oct. 2012 http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/zone-lance-armstrong-bully-downfall-article-1.1188512#ixzz2PjimNGuZ

2r, Kimmage interview with Lemond, excerpts March-April 2013 https://www.facebook.com/2Rmag
.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Thanks North star(& everyone), what a great post. Loved re-reading some of these old interviews and new ones too. Appreciate it.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Not sure what your looking for. Just want a bit of debate my friend.

You're not getting away with the outrageous claim that Lemond took recreational drugs with either Fignonn or anyone else.

If you don't have anything constructive to add, stay off the thread.

Consider yourself warned.

-Berzin

Nice edit.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

If it wasn't for you rascal kids I would have gotten away with it.

Good detective work!!! HAVE A SCOOBY SNACK ON ME!

I think Meddling kids is the line - not "rascal kids"


"if it hadn't been for you meddling kids!"

 

[BigBoat]

LA Times article, ‘Drug Use Said To Concern Lemond’ July 1989 http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-25/sports/sp-95_1_greg-lemond
]

Wow, didn't know this type of article existed, good link!

 

[red_flanders]

There are some interesting links in this thread. I have listed the Lemond related articles in one post for people who may have missed them. Thanks to all the posters who contributed the original links.

Sports Illustrated article, ‘Climbing Clear Up To The Heights’, Sept. 1984 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1122493/1/index.htm

LA Times article, ‘Drug Use Said To Concern Lemond’ July 1989 http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-25/sports/sp-95_1_greg-lemond

Bicyclist/B. Malessa interview with Lemond, ‘Once Was King’ 1998 http://www.roble.net/marquis/coaching/lemond98.html

Claire D. blog/interview with Lemond ‘Better to Get a Flat Than To Get Shot’ July 2007 http://admirelemond.blogspot.ca/2007/07/lexpress-interview-from-july-12th-2007.html

M. Fanelli blog ‘Still A Fan, Greg’ Sept. 2008 http://marcofanelli.blogspot.ca/2008/09/still-fan-greg.html

Bike Radar, Lemond’s account of ‘The Greatest Tour of All’ July 2009 http://www.bikeradar.com/blog/article/the-greatest-tour-of-all-by-greg-lemond-22419/

Kathy Lemond blog, ‘Doping and the Story of Those We Love’ 2010 http://greglemond.com/blog/doping-and-those-we-love/

Cycling News, Lemond blog ‘The Art of Peaking for the Tour’ July 2010 http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/greg-lemond/the-art-of-peaking-for-the-tour-de-france-1

Bike Radar, excerpt ‘A Tribute to Great Cycling Designers’ Oct. 2012 http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/bike-a-tribute-to-the-worlds-greatest-cycling-designers--35445/

NY Times article ‘Victims of Armstrong Feel Vindication’ Oct. 2012 http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/zone-lance-armstrong-bully-downfall-article-1.1188512#ixzz2PjimNGuZ

2r, Kimmage interview with Lemond, excerpts March-April 2013 https://www.facebook.com/2Rmag

Great, great post. Should be sticky.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Great list, here is another Lemond interview to add, from February 2007.

It goes right back to his junior achievements in some detail.

 

[D-Queued]

Wow, didn't know this type of article existed, good link!

"...they haven't even scratched the surface in that sport compared to what's going on with the cyclists and their physicians. They are much more sophisticated at beating the tests. I would say that a good deal of what's going on in track and field was learned from cycling..."

Cycling leadership. And here Nein and Phat have been trying to demonstrate that this was an oxymoron.

Dave.

 

[northstar]

Thanks 86TDFWinner, red-flanders, Dr. Mas. There’s a wealth of information in these threads but unfortunately much of it gets buried in the high volume of posts. Just wanted to collect the links in one place.

Dr. Mas – BikeRaceInfo link added. Thx.