LeMond I

[andy1234]

Thanks.

Perhaps you need to check your Internet connection.

He looked right at the camera/interviewer and seemed to have no hesitation with his answer that "I'd rather not finish the race than cheat..." followed up by the poignant observation about his teammate who died.

He was far more vague when discussing anti-oxidants just before that.

Dave.

He actually says "I'd rather not win a race, than be positive"
There's a subtle difference.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I don't care what the concensus is on the clinic on Lemond. I'am making a genuine observation.

Thanks. And don't let anybody stop you making these incredible observations.

I am not an expert like you, but instead of the normal polished, amusing, precise and concise interviews that I assume Greg is well known for this appeared to be someone struggling to find the right phrases.
I am not saying Greg was coked out of his head at the time of the interview, but there appears to be times when they cut away from him and perhaps he was snorting a quick line - what is your observation?

 

[D-Queued]

He actually says "I'd rather not win a race, than be positive"
There's a subtle difference.

Oh, sorry. Like really, really subtle.

Though, I do like your version (and Greg's actual statement) better. With a bit more context:

"I'd rather not win the race than be positive. Winning a race where you are cheating is like taking a short cut to the finish line. Did you really win the race?"

All stated with little to no hesitation, or any apparent evasiveness.

YMMV.

Dave.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

So LeMond has admitted to cocaine use, while racing with Renault.
I don't recall this being discussed, other than as a rumour.

Not doping, but worthy of further discussion,no?

Sure, lets discuss it: Lemond did some coke.















































That about sums it up.

 

[blackcat]

^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Sure, lets discuss it: Lemond did some coke.















































That about sums it up.

*snort* .....

 

[131313]

Also, for the record, I have been around athletes of all levels, almost my entire life. I can honestly say, I cannot recall a single athlete, friend or otherwise, who took coke, speed, E's etc socially, who weren't prepared to dabble in other substances when they were training or competing.

I fully expect the usual hysteria in response to this statement, but while entirely subjective, is absolutely true.

Other people's experiences, may of course, differ.

Well, if you're inclined to believe him (which is questionable), Chad Gerlach mentioned to everyone within earshot that even he wasn't a big enough loser to take all of the meds that Levi was taking, and that you'd have to be a moron to take drugs that didn't get you high. He made this witty observation while nose-breathing on a crosswind section at 34mph during Nature Valley when everyone else when everyone else was about to throw up. Maybe he was lying, but I'm guessing that if that dude had money for EPO, he'd have rather spent it on crack. It also underscored the reality that some guys have immense talent for riding a bike. Some use it to win races, some end up living under bridges.

 

[horsinabout]

He actually says "I'd rather not win a race, than be positive"
There's a subtle difference.

I noticed this and what do you think he meant? I think he was avoiding the question directly.

Dr Masarati, I have never professed to be an expert, I am making observations, which in the absence of being able to know whether Lemond took PED;s, this is all I can do - like everyone else who has been commenting on this thread.

 

[andy1234]

I noticed this and what do you think he meant? I think he was avoiding the question directly.

Dr Masarati, I have never professed to be an expert, I am making observations, which in the absence of being able to know whether Lemond took PED;s, this is all I can do - like everyone else who has been commenting on this thread.

Honestly, I agree with everyone else on this.
LeMond is a bit nervous in front of a microphone, and struggles to focus on a topic.
This is just more of the same.

He probably looks and sounds evasive when ordering at the McD's drivethrough.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Thanks.

Perhaps you need to check your Internet connection.

He looked right at the camera/interviewer and seemed to have no hesitation with his answer that "I'd rather not finish the race than cheat..." followed up by the poignant observation about his teammate who died.

He was far more vague when discussing anti-oxidants just before that.

Dave.

True, there was little doubt about his own doping (no doping based on strong ethics) but the hesitation was about recollecting others doping. He definitely knew who, what & where. Also Lemond was definitely offered drugs as well. But he was a phenomenal cyclist. If you are wining easy (seen from his record from an early age) why would you dope. If you are already a superman, do you take drugs to become even more super? Think of the risks at that time, one of which was death. If he dabbled in doping, somebody would know as these things are not done independently. But he literally disappeared after 1990. If he was doping there would be 3 more tours for him 91,92,93 inspite of fatigue or other points that he gave as reasons for not doing well in those tours. At the height of you know who's career, he said that he would bring witnesses against Lemond for doping. So far there have been no such witnesses. Right after Coppi upto Contador, the top cyclists have been involved with drugs. There have been positives, witnesses, anecdotes, dodgy doctors etc. From what i know, the one exception is Lemond. While he himself probably didnot dope, the one little thing that i have against Lemond is that he has not grassed on anyone else who doped (probably cannot because of libel). He is more against dodgy doctors than poor cyclists.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I can't see the horsinabout's video because of U-tub filter here at work.

I do remember one video that shows Greg get all wound up and having to pause to sip on some water. He was just nervous and maybe had trouble talking in front of large groups of people or giving a presentation. That don't make him a PED pusher or user.

 

[86TDFWinner]

So basically Lemond was that good ‘clean’ that the rest of the peloton,(the best professional cyclists in the world) a large percentage of whom were doping, using testosterone, cortisone, amphetamines, steroids and possibly blood doping, and whatever other cocktail of drugs that were being abused at the time, used these drugs just to be able to keep up with the pace of the ‘clean’ Lemond and still couldn’t beat him. This scenario is logically impossible and belongs in the realm of mythology. Thats the conclusion that any free thinking, logical and rational human being would arrive at. Lemond doped like all the rest. He was just never caught. You can be an outspoken critic like Lemond, who speaks out against drug use in the sport. Being an outspoken critic proves absolutely nothing about the ‘cleanliness’ of a cyclist and is a further attempt by Lemond to preserve his false legacy as a clean cyclist.

Here we go again:


Do you have ANY C-R-E-D-I-B-L-E PROOF/EVIDENCE that LeMond wasn't clean? Please provide this evidence so that we can all see it please?

Dates/times/what drugs/etc?

Please and thank you

 

[86TDFWinner]

Thanks.

Perhaps you need to check your Internet connection.

He looked right at the camera/interviewer and seemed to have no hesitation with his answer that "I'd rather not finish the race than cheat..." followed up by the poignant observation about his teammate who died.

He was far more vague when discussing anti-oxidants just before that.

Dave.

Of course this is the way he said it, as you mentioned. The other poster is just trolling and trying to find some way to tarnish Greg's legacy, now that Phamrstrong's has been demolished.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Oh, sorry. Like really, really subtle.

Though, I do like your version (and Greg's actual statement) better. With a bit more context:

"I'd rather not win the race than be positive. Winning a race where you are cheating is like taking a short cut to the finish line. Did you really win the race?"

All stated with little to no hesitation, or any apparent evasiveness.

YMMV.

Dave.

D, lets not bring reason and common sense into the discussion ok?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Lets face it, Greg was a coke sniffing EPO/blooddoping wonder that lied his whole carreer.

Portelau even puts him at 390 watts at Luz Ardiden 1990, around 5,82w/k.

I have never seen such an explosion off power/grinta/wilskracht/anger in a rider for the last 25 years. Only Pantani 1997 on Alpe d'Huez matches this, qua grinta of course.

Luz Ardiden 1990, EPO Greg, with a nosebreathing clean as a whistle little Mig in his slipstream. He didnt even need to sprint away from Greg in the last 300 metres.

Bad, bad Greg.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Lets face it, Greg was a coke sniffing EPO/blooddoping wonder that lied his whole carreer.Luz Ardiden 1990, EPO Greg, with a nosebreathing clean as a whistle little Mig in his slipstream. He didnt even need to sprint away from Greg in the last 300 metres.

Bad, bad Greg.

LOL, ok.

 

[D-Queued]

True, there was little doubt about his own doping (no doping based on strong ethics) but the hesitation was about recollecting others doping. He definitely knew who, what & where. Also Lemond was definitely offered drugs as well. But he was a phenomenal cyclist. If you are wining easy (seen from his record from an early age) why would you dope. If you are already a superman, do you take drugs to become even more super? Think of the risks at that time, one of which was death. If he dabbled in doping, somebody would know as these things are not done independently. But he literally disappeared after 1990. If he was doping there would be 3 more tours for him 91,92,93 inspite of fatigue or other points that he gave as reasons for not doing well in those tours. At the height of you know who's career, he said that he would bring witnesses against Lemond for doping. So far there have been no such witnesses. Right after Coppi upto Contador, the top cyclists have been involved with drugs. There have been positives, witnesses, anecdotes, dodgy doctors etc. From what i know, the one exception is Lemond. While he himself probably didnot dope, the one little thing that i have against Lemond is that he has not grassed on anyone else who doped (probably cannot because of libel). He is more against dodgy doctors than poor cyclists.

Greg was recalling the case of Philippe Casado, though I am pretty sure that he has never specifically named Casado. He first made reference publicly to this 'teammate' in 2007.

Casado moved onto Jolly from GAN, where there was a full program in place.

Casado had been a loyal Domestique to LeMond, and had even won the first stage in the Giro.

Casado died of an apparent heart attack at age 30, in his back yard while playing soccer with his young son.

Unusual for a four time Tour finisher.

Notably some of these facts are not yet in Wikipedia, including the Giro stage win. and I long ago elected not to put them there myself.

These circumstances may qualify as tragic.

The death and its circumstance may help explain why Greg might hesitate in recounting anything about Casado.

Dave.

 

[ChrisE]

Wow! thanks for the amazingly unique and new look at this complex topic.

as you know this babble has been addressed over, and over, and over.....

Translation: We GL fanboys have put our hands over our ears long before you got here.

 

[the delgados]

Thanks.

Perhaps you need to check your Internet connection.

He looked right at the camera/interviewer and seemed to have no hesitation with his answer that "I'd rather not finish the race than cheat..." followed up by the poignant observation about his teammate who died.

He was far more vague when discussing anti-oxidants just before that.

Dave.

He didn't answer the question, which was clear: "Were you ever tempted to dope?"
Seems to me it's a yes or no.

 

[peterst6906]

He didn't answer the question, which was clear: "Were you ever tempted to dope?"
Seems to me it's a yes or no.

Seems to me that an answer of yes to that question would show a greater strength of character.

Being tempted and choosing not to dope shows a conscious decision to reject the possibility in comparison to never being tempted (which requires no strength or test of character).

So either answer is ok and even a non-answer interpreted as a yes is no problem.

 

[D-Queued]

Seems to me that an answer of yes to that question would show a greater strength of character.

Being tempted and choosing not to dope shows a conscious decision to reject the possibility in comparison to never being tempted (which requires no strength or test of character).

So either answer is ok and even a non-answer interpreted as a yes is no problem.

Sure, and this was a great answer to a similar temptation question:

Because I'm just human and I'm tempted and Christ set some almost impossible standards for us. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Christ said, I tell you that anyone who looks on a woman with lust has in his heart already committed adultery. I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times.... This is something that God recognizes, that I will do and have done, and God forgives me for it.

Then again, we aren't expecting Greg to be a philosopher statesman are we and that guy wasn't re-elected?

Please provide a clear definition for being honest enough. Please take into account the well-worn deceptions from known dopers. When do you tire of the "I am tranquillo" responses?

Personally, I will take Greg's lack of smooth delivery over slick denials any day.

Dave.

 

[Race Radio]

He didn't answer the question, which was clear: "Were you ever tempted to dope?"
Seems to me it's a yes or no.

Likely because he has answered the question over and over. Given that he has provided an answer in the past most would see his answer as adding more depth to the discussion.

http://admirelemond.blogspot.com/2007/07/lexpress-interview-from-july-12th-2007.html

It's probably in 1988, after my hunting accident, that I was the closest in touch to doping. I signed with the dutch team PDM and they had decided to try "things" on their riders. Their doctor was asserting that I needed to be physiologically "re-equilibrated" because I had lost a lot of blood the preceeding year. Luckily that year I hardly raced.

 

[131313]

Likely because he has answered the question over and over. Given that he has provided an answer in the past most would see his answer as adding more depth to the discussion.

http://admirelemond.blogspot.com/2007/07/lexpress-interview-from-july-12th-2007.html

I love the first comment! It's so cliche that you can't just help but laugh.

Crazy story about that Casado dude, never read that one before. Thanks for posting.

 

[horsinabout]

Sure, and this was a great answer to a similar temptation question.

Because I'm just human and I'm tempted and Christ set some almost impossible standards for us. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Christ said, I tell you that anyone who looks on a woman with lust has in his heart already committed adultery. I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times.... This is something that God recognizes, that I will do and have done, and God forgives me for it.

.
I thought this quote required a humerous response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hihdhRhTb0E

I don't think that by requiring transparency from Lemond is to put high expectations on to him. He is the one who is asking for greater transparency in cycling. So therefore one has to ask him the question about his own past. You then expect a transparent answer. Which in the video I posted we did not get completely.

When Lemond talks about his teamate dying young from drugs this may be his motive for.

1. not coming clean and

2. his crusade against doping or at least its appropriate restriction.

 

[Race Radio]

I love the first comment! It's so cliche that you can't just help but laugh.

No surprise that it comes from somebody who has spewed Wonderboy talking points here for years