LeMond I

[ultimobici]

...started racing in 76...and been very engrossed by all things connected with bike racing ever since...how about you?...

Cheers

blutto

1981 started riding a road bike thanks to a headmaster who made a mistake regarding my eligibility for a free bus pass! Racing came a later that year then I discovered continental racing in 83 and fell in love with the pox ridden ***** that it was and is.

 

[BotanyBay]

Just look at the results listed only on Wikipedia for LeMond during first five years of his career ...(snip)

Thanks for posting that, Joe.

Armstrong was a talented junior (no doubt), but at age 18, he was by no means in any way able to be compared to Lemond. Roy Knickman comes to mind in terms of any "real" comparisons to Greg Lemond back in the day.

Watching Lemond succeed was such an incredible delight, as (most) anyone who ever raced against him, or saw him race can attest to. Dunno what Oliver's deal is.

The doping culture is so incredibly sad, that now we can't even really HAVE any delight in watching the true prodigies rise up and do well. Taylor Phinney comes to mind. In all reality, he probably IS a good comparison for Greg Lemond's baseline talent level. But his parents signed him over to Och and this is why people now merely say "yay" when he does well, rather than with the levels of excitement we used to see with Lemond, Knickman, etc. I was just thinking of this while watching stage 2 of the Giro on mainstream NBC yesterday. The announcers were as excited as I remember people being when we were watching Greg.

Greg was not only the real deal, he was a super-star rider. A nice guy as well. You just couldn't ask for anything more.

 

[Albatros]

with the history of doping in cycling of past and present winners of the Tour de France, I would find it amazing that Lemond or any other Tour de France winner didn't dope. He would have to be an absolute genetic freak among genetic freaks.

So I rather take the safe bet that he doped like the rest. All guilty until proven otherwise.

 

[MacRoadie]

with the history of doping in cycling of past and present winners of the Tour de France, I would find it amazing that Lemond or any other Tour de France winner didn't dope. He would have to be an absolute genetic freak among genetic freaks.

So I rather take the safe bet that he doped like the rest. All guilty until proven otherwise.

Just when you're sure the closet is empty, out pops another one...

 

[Albatros]

Just when you're sure the closet is empty, out pops another one...

Well, Lemond hasn't cofessed to doping yet.

He is American, so maybe I have been a little bit unfair to him.


Sorry, I stopped believing in fairy tales probably before you were born. It just simply doens't make any sense to me that the best cyclist in the world was not doped with so many cases of declared dopers, before, during, and after his time. These things do not happen in real life.

 

[Race Radio]

Well, Lemond hasn't cofessed to doping yet.

He is American, so maybe I have been a little bit unfair to him.


Sorry, I stopped believing in fairy tales probably before you were born. It just simply doens't make any sense to me that the best cyclist in the world was not doped with so many cases of declared dopers, before, during, and after his time. These things do not happen in real life.

Yes, they do happen.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Just when you're sure the closet is empty, out pops another one...

I understand the frustration.

Interesting how this becomes a Greg Lemond vs Lance Armstrong thread. Not by all but there a few who seemed to want to bring that into the debate.

But also everyone needs to remember that not all the cycling fans are Greg Lemond fans. There has been a large cycling fan boom in the United States since 1999 and we all know why. For many of the fans that came along during that time they do not have the same understanding about the sport as many around here have.

Really there is no reason for the Greg vs Lance debate. Greg Lemond was a great cyclist in my opinion. Everyone has a reason to they began to like cycling for me that was Greg Lemond and the subsequent 7-eleven team. These were the reasons for me being a fan, and wanting to ride and compete.

Greg Lemond has had many people either cyclist or fans try and bring him down but so far there is nothing. I wonder why that is?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Yes, they do happen.

you talking about the miracle of that "huffy" frame in the pro peloton?

 

[ultimobici]

you talking about the miracle of that "huffy" frame in the pro peloton?

Used to work with a guy from Philly who had one of those "Huffys". His wasn't a Land Shark like Hampsten's but a rather nice Serotta.

 

[MacRoadie]

Greg Lemond has had many people either cyclist or fans try and bring him down but so far there is nothing. I wonder why that is?

Apparently, it's because he "hasn't cofessed to doping yet"...

 

[MacRoadie]

Used to work with a guy from Philly who had one of those "Huffys". His wasn't a Land Shark like Hampsten's but a rather nice Serotta.

I believe all of the '88 and '89 bikes were Serottas, with the exception of Andy's (which he replaced with a Land Shark after breaking a Serotta).

 

[ultimobici]

Well, Lemond hasn't cofessed to doping yet.

He is American, so maybe I have been a little bit unfair to him.


Sorry, I stopped believing in fairy tales probably before you were born. It just simply doens't make any sense to me that the best cyclist in the world was not doped with so many cases of declared dopers, before, during, and after his time. These things do not happen in real life.

The thing I don't get is that Lemond has been vociferous in his attack on doping as well as his assertions that he never doped. Despite all this not one solitary shred of evidence, not a single statement nothing has surfaced. If there was any truth in it surely someone would have had enough of him being a hypocrite and spoken out?

Either he has bought everyone off or.....














He was clean!

 

[Albatros]

Yes, they do happen.

Ok, we got two clean riders, Andrew Hampstead and Greg Lemond. Anyone offering three?

How do you know?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Used to work with a guy from Philly who had one of those "Huffys". His wasn't a Land Shark like Hampsten's but a rather nice Serotta.

I wish I had that Land Shark or the Serotta! Those are some nice iron horses they rode back in the day. Most people did not know they were rebranded.

I remember when one of my friends told me that 7-eleven would be riding Murray or "Huffys" and I told him that he was full of **** that it had to be someone good like Schwinn! turned out I was full of ****!

 

[ultimobici]

Ok, we got two clean riders, Andrew Hampstead and Greg Lemond. Anyone offering three?

How do you know?

Two for you. Mottet & Delion.

Delion retired in 1994 aged 28 having won Lombardia & the Maillot Blanc in the 1990 Tour. Sad sad waste of talent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_Delion

Mottet was a triple Grand Prix des Nations winner, triple Dauphiné winner as well as Lombardia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charly_Mottet

 

[BotanyBay]

1985 Whiskey Creek Stage Race. I was climbing the final ascent before the finish at the Mammoth Mountain Resort and was overtaken and passed by Andy Hampsten. He was in the big ring and turning it soundly.

My event had started 5-10 minutes before his event (down in Lone Pine, 49 miles earlier). Andy passed my entire peloton and then caught the breakaway I was in. He was calm, in the saddle, and easily turning his big ring on a difficult climb. And THIS was years before EPO hit the streets.

Andy could climb... fast.

 

[BotanyBay]

I wish I had that Land Shark or the Serotta! Those are some nice iron horses they rode back in the day. Most people did not know they were rebranded.

I remember when one of my friends told me that 7-eleven would be riding Murray or "Huffys" and I told him that he was full of **** that it had to be someone good like Schwinn! turned out I was full of ****!

They quickly figured it out when they went to Fedmart / Two Guys / Price Club and couldn't find a comparable Huffy (or Murray).

 

[Albatros]

The thing I don't get is that Lemond has been vociferous in his attack on doping as well as his assertions that he never doped. Despite all this not one solitary shred of evidence, not a single statement nothing has surfaced. If there was any truth in it surely someone would have had enough of him being a hypocrite and spoken out?

Either he has bought everyone off or.....














He was clean!

How suddenly a grand Tour winner is not on something when the bloody culture of cycling was before, during and after his time, to get doped to the gills? Did he never take any patch or injection of testosterone? Did he never take amphetamines? Did he live in a vacuum?

He was competing against confessed druggies, and yet he still was the best cyclist. From the point of view of hero making it is a fantastic story, but I am rather exceptical, sorry.

 

[MacRoadie]

How suddenly a grand Tour winner is not on something when the bloody culture of cycling was before, during and after his time, to get doped to the gills? Did he never take any patch or injection of testosterone? Did he never take amphetamines? Did he live in a vacuum?

He was competing against confessed druggies, and yet he still was the best cyclist. From the point of view of hero making it is a fantastic story, but I am rather exceptical, sorry.

Blah, blah, blah. More conjecture for the manure pile and not a single shred (or even hint of) empirical evidence.

And no, he didn't live in a vacuum, so why no evidence?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

They quickly figured it out when they went to Fedmart / Two Guys / Price Club and couldn't find a comparable Huffy (or Murray).

U interested in a new 10 speed sonny? Ummmm yeah I would like one of those Murray's I just saw in a euro cycling mag...in the giro duh italiano....errr ummm. Sorry sonny we don't have any of that fancy euro stuff but I can sell you a 10 speed Schwinn which is top of the line here at "western auto" / Otasco.

 

[BotanyBay]

How suddenly a grand Tour winner is not on something when the bloody culture of cycling was before, during and after his time, to get doped to the gills? Did he never take any patch or injection of testosterone? Did he never take amphetamines? Did he live in a vacuum?

He was competing against confessed druggies, and yet he still was the best cyclist. From the point of view of hero making it is a fantastic story, but I am rather exceptical, sorry.

You must understand the widely believed thinking at the time (80s)... that testosterone was of no advantage to endurance cyclists at all. People assumed that it was only good for people like shot-putters and weightlifters...perhaps trackies. People were stunned when Pedro Delgado was busted for Probenicid (a masking agent), as it "didn't make sense" that he might be using testosterone. Many believed in his innocence as a distance cyclist using testosterone (at the time) just didn't add up.

 

[BotanyBay]

U interested in a new 10 speed sonny? Ummmm yeah I would like one of those Murray's I just saw in a euro cycling mag...in the giro duh italiano....errr ummm. Sorry sonny we don't have any of that fancy euro stuff but I can sell you a 10 speed Schwinn which is top of the line here at "western auto" / Otasco.

Actually, a Schwinn could only be had at an official Schwinn dealership (like the one I worked at)

 

[ultimobici]

How suddenly a grand Tour winner is not on something when the bloody culture of cycling was before, during and after his time, to get doped to the gills? Did he never take any patch or injection of testosterone? Did he never take amphetamines? Did he live in a vacuum?

He was competing against confessed druggies, and yet he still was the best cyclist. From the point of view of hero making it is a fantastic story, but I am rather exceptical, sorry.

Aside from your being sceptical, you're overlooking a major difference in doping methods & effects from the 80's into the 90's.

The 80's saw a continuation of the methods of the previous decades. Amphetamines were joined by cortisone & testosterone, but all of these have a down side. It is widely believed that Hinault's lack of defence of his 82 Tour victory was forced on him by overuse of cortisone in the 83 Vuelta. That enabled him to push himself further than was prudent thus stuffing his knee.

Come 1990/91 EPO had entered the peloton's arsenal with doctors rather than the soigneurs administering it lest anyone died. It allowed almost superhuman recovery and the "bad day" was virtually banished from the GT rider's lexicon.

Lemond's performances all through his career were credible. His actions after retiring give me no doubts either. When asked if he doped the answer is an emphatic no. Despite efforts aplenty ($300kof them too!) there isn't a single whiff of it either. Armstrong's mechanic at USPS was prepared to lie for him but couldn't be persuaded to spill the beans on his former employer!

 

[Semper Fidelis]

1985 Whiskey Creek Stage Race. I was climbing the final ascent before the finish at the Mammoth Mountain Resort and was overtaken and passed by Andy Hampsten. He was in the big ring and turning it soundly.

My event had started 5-10 minutes before his event (down in Lone Pine, 49 miles earlier). Andy passed my entire peloton and then caught the breakaway I was in. He was calm, in the saddle, and easily turning his big ring on a difficult climb. And THIS was years before EPO hit the streets.

Andy could climb... fast.

Hampsten was one those cyclist that I wanted to win the Tour De France so bad.

His climbing was awsome. Stay tunned in here because before to long someone is going to tell us how charged he was etc. That is the way this place works.

There really is no debate here in regards to Greg Lemond doping.

 

[Albatros]

You must understand the widely believed thinking at the time (80s)... that testosterone was of no advantage to endurance cyclists at all. People assumed that it was only good for people like shot-putters and weightlifters...perhaps trackies. People were stunned when Pedro Delgado was busted for Probenicid (a masking agent), as it "didn't make sense" that he might be using testosterone. Many believed in his innocence as a distance cyclist using testosterone (at the time) just didn't add up.

Fignon confessed to testosterone use and as you say Perico Delgado more likely than not used it too.

And then you have cortisone and all the amphetamines they took to get by. Well, all except Hamstead and Lemond apparently, the two freaks coming from the US who were competing against the European freaks without the help of illegal substances or practices.