LeMond II

[thehog]

That link isn't working now. Looks like the poster in question didn't want his flip flopping exposed and deleted it as a result. Don't worry I seen it before that was done.

Hilarious.

People can't change their position over time, when facts come available etc.? I've seen that several times with yourself and others.

Not relevant to this thread but there has been significant change in posters stance on Sky - I've seen the posts side by side.

Food for thought. We're all guilty of it.

 

[Digger]

People can't change their position over time, when facts come available etc.? I've seen that several times with yourself and others.

Not relevant to this thread but there has been significant change in posters stance on Sky - I've seen the posts side by side.

Food for thought. We're all guilty of it.

well on that note - Radio himself used to have a much different opinion of JV than he does now - he used to say Horner was the greatest American cyclist since Greg only two years ago - now i am sure he'd say different

 

[Digger]

There was a time when i defended Greg - totally - as i did Betsy - no question - i will save you all the time of going back - it's there, not deleted...but as i said - actions since then have shown things in a different light and secondly you find things out - and the things i have seen have disgusted me....and i wish i knew then what i know now.

I mean on that note there is a post where Race says Digger is a great guy only earlier this year...

 

[Bluenote]

That link isn't working now. Looks like the poster in question didn't want his flip flopping exposed and deleted it as a result. Don't worry I seen it before that was done.

Hilarious.

Yeah, I saw it too. Weird to delete it. Just when you thought it couldn't get any stranger...

 

[gooner]

you liar - i never even saw it...race is playing a very sneaky game here and he knows full well what i am alluding to.

I did indeed see it. It wasn't a post by you. Retract the liar comment.

 

[frenchfry]

Did James Startt "trick" her too?

Ya know.... the solution here was for Stephanie to just tell the truth. Uh, like Betsy did.

Indeed, it is often difficult to determine who are the good guys/gals and who are the bad guys/gals.

If Stephanie had told the truth about a guy who had a habit of following through on his threats to turn people's lives into a living hell, her life would have become...a living hell.

As it was/is, her life was pretty messed up anyway because of her association with Armstrong. As were many others (Mike Anderson, Betsy, Emma etc.)

In the end, what she did to Betsy was pretty disgusting, she had no justification verbally attacking her just because Betsy wasn't willing to compromise her values.

Not easy to sort out though, especially when looking at the situation from a distance.

 

[thehog]

I deleted my own post. I saw it as an attempt to get personal, derail the thread and cause conflict.

Rather than reply, I simply deleted it and moved on.

 

[Digger]

I did indeed see it. It wasn't a post by you. Retract the liar comment.

fair enough - i did delete the post where i called you a liar.

 

[Digger]

For the record i did delete my last few posts which came about as a result of a post from Race Radio which i assumed was one of mine, considering he had posted a few the last few days - on this occasion i was wrong when I said Gooner was lying.

 

[the sceptic]

People can't change their position over time, when facts come available etc.? I've seen that several times with yourself and others.

Not relevant to this thread but there has been significant change in posters stance on Sky - I've seen the posts side by side.

Food for thought. We're all guilty of it.

I respect people who are able to change their minds when they gain more knowledge and new facts become available.

This is why the LA thread is unreadable now. Too many posters entrenched with the same old "good guy/bad guy" attitude and seeing everything through a Lance-hate filter.

 

[gooner]

fair enough - i did delete the post where i called you a liar.

For the record i did delete my last few posts which came about as a result of a post from Race Radio which i assumed was one of mine, considering he had posted a few the last few days - on this occasion i was wrong when I said Gooner was lying.

No hassle.

 

[gooner]

I respect people who are able to change their minds when they gain more knowledge and new facts become available.

This is why the LA thread is unreadable now. Too many posters entrenched with the same old "good guy/bad guy" attitude and seeing everything through a Lance-hate filter.

But that's what has been said by me beforehand.

What new facts specifically related to the Greg/Mcilvain tape have recently been established for guys to change their mind from stances on it years previously?

There's nothing personal in posing that question.

 

[gooner]

People can't change their position over time, when facts come available etc.? I've seen that several times with yourself and others.

Not relevant to this thread but there has been significant change in posters stance on Sky - I've seen the posts side by side.

Food for thought. We're all guilty of it.

Facts can be established and verified as time goes on. That can happen with Sky or anything related in the sport in the years ahead. Of course it can help alter one's opinion and give us a more clear cut view of something. I accept that.

Yet I haven't seen any of that with Greg and the tape and question why then the change of mind right now.

 

[D-Queued]

Yes, an Arbitration hearing.

For a bonus prize you can count how many times the word "hearing" appears in the hearing transcripts.

For a double bonus, can you count how many times did Digger describe the initial SCA action as a Trial?

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5...ed-in-Landis-investigation.aspx#ixzz3Hbtya9qQ


There you go...


Now moving on to other facts...you sidestepped the floyd issue...was that a litter white lie too?


The rest of your post merely underlines what I have Been saying - that we are meant to ignore any negative on the other side, that it was all about Lance...and how that target was reached didn't matter....

Sidestepped Floyd?

I think my record is pretty clear on Floyd. There must be a thousand or more posts in that record. Plenty of evidence to know where I stand.

And, for the record, when it comes to Floyd and a discussion of lying it is hard to know where to begin. All that one can hope is that his lying is over.

Since this is the LeMond thread and RR, Glenn and other 'Haters' are expressing empathy towards Floyd, perhaps we should just move on.

As for your California reference, it had nothing to do with SCA, did it? And, could you explain if it was it declared inadmissable or illegal? Your quoted resource doesn't say anything about it being illegal.

Oh sure, Fabiani is quoted in that article as describing it as illegal. Not like he has some sort of agenda. Your resource even offered compelling counterpoint from an actual expert, noting that,

However, the LA Times spoke to legal expert Laurie Levenson, who said that in federal cases, taped conversations can be used as evidence as long as one of the parties concerned is aware of the recording.

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5...ed-in-Landis-investigation.aspx#ixzz3HfAJQ4f4

The two - illegal and inadmissable - are slightly different, aren't they? IIRC you have described it as illegal.

Perhaps you would like to revise your misstatement on that one. You know, just in case anyone wonders if you have been lying or something.

Dave.

 

[M Sport]

For a double bonus, can you count how many times did Digger describe the initial SCA action as a Trial?

I don't really read his posts but if he called it a trial he was incorrect as well.

 

[Digger]

For a double bonus, can you count how many times did Digger describe the initial SCA action as a Trial?



Sidestepped Floyd?

I think my record is pretty clear on Floyd. There must be a thousand or more posts in that record. Plenty of evidence to know where I stand.

And, for the record, when it comes to Floyd and a discussion of lying it is hard to know where to begin. All that one can hope is that his lying is over.

Since this is the LeMond thread and RR, Glenn and other 'Haters' are expressing empathy towards Floyd, perhaps we should just move on.

As for your California reference, it had nothing to do with SCA, did it? And, could you explain if it was it declared inadmissable or illegal? Your quoted resource doesn't say anything about it being illegal.

Oh sure, Fabiani is quoted in that article as describing it as illegal. Not like he has some sort of agenda. Your resource even offered compelling counterpoint from an actual expert, noting that,



Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5...ed-in-Landis-investigation.aspx#ixzz3HfAJQ4f4

The two - illegal and inadmissable - are slightly different, aren't they? IIRC you have described it as illegal.

Perhaps you would like to revise your misstatement on that one. You know, just in case anyone wonders if you have been lying or something.

Dave.

CA is an all party consent state - in CA it's illegal to do what he did - in his own state it's legal for one party consent - but SM lived in Orange County CA....

 

[thehog]

I respect people who are able to change their minds when they gain more knowledge and new facts become available.

This is why the LA thread is unreadable now. Too many posters entrenched with the same old "good guy/bad guy" attitude and seeing everything through a Lance-hate filter.

Thank-you. I'm just going to stick to the topic at hand with the information I have in front of me as of today.

Personal jibes, trawling through old posting histories etc. is not worth it.

 

[Race Radio]

I respect people who are able to change their minds when they gain more knowledge and new facts become available.

Really? Then why did you and you buddies babble non-stop about what I wrote on Ventoux? Within minutes I had corrected it and directed people to others with more up to date info yet for months you ignored all of this. You don't need to answer, it is clear what you were doing.

It is also clear that some folks sudden change in heart on some topics is less then authentic.

 

[Race Radio]

That link isn't working now. Looks like the poster in question didn't want his flip flopping exposed and deleted it as a result. Don't worry I seen it before that was done.

Hilarious.

Wow, that is weird. That is odd as it was clearly on topic. Hmmmm, perhaps the poster was embarrassed by the flip flop? It is rather odd that they would go to such great lengths to cover up their sudden, explainable, change in heart. It is not like there is anything new to the story.

Going to be a busy night as there are plenty more where that came from. Delete, delete, delete.

 

[MarkvW]

Yeah, I saw it too. Weird to delete it. Just when you thought it couldn't get any stranger...

Well, if you can't find enough hypocrisy to be outraged about, you can always supply some of your own.

 

[Granville57]

Race radio you made a claim that Floyd landis taped others without their consent. Who did he tape? Because working with the Feds is not exactly comparable to what Greg for...so I would advise you to back that up or withdraw it.

I had forgotten that Floyd had taped some peeps also.

Floyd didn't - something race knows. He worked with the feds - but he didn't tape phone recordings off his own bat.

But I don't see anyone referring "phone" recordings. I assume that all of this is alluding to the time when Floyd wore a wire for the Feds when he went to visit Michael Ball?

I realize this is the wrong thread for this discussion but...

WTF ever happened to all of that!?!?!?

 

[Race Radio]

Well, if you can't find enough hypocrisy to be outraged about, you can always supply some of your own.

Yup......The Outrage Machine does not run on Pan y Aqua.

 

[thehog]

But I don't see anyone referring "phone" recordings. I assume that all of this is alluding to the time when Floyd wore a wire for the Feds when he went to visit Michael Ball?

I realize this is the wrong thread for this discussion but...

WTF ever happened to all of that!?!?!?

It was the gestation of the Novitzky investigation.

 

[Digger]

Yup......The Outrage Machine does not run on Pan y Aqua.

In light of earlier today (you know what i am talking about), why are you continuing this? You can't have it both ways, which is clearly what you want...you talk of baiting, what exactly are you doing....

 

[Granville57]

It was the gestation of the Novitzky investigation.

Certainly, but whatever became of the specific interest in Michael Ball and Rock Racing?

Waaaay off topic, I realize. Apologies.